M3 Front Control Arms

[Dackelone]

You might want to ask your shop IF they did the alignment with someone(around your weight) sitting in the drivers seat. That will also make a slight difference as to the alignment specs/readings. You should also have had a half tank of fuel - when you do an alignment.

[1Pirate]

128 Pilot, Thanks for the update. I'm going to order my M3 Control Arm Kit today.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

You might want to ask your shop IF they did the alignment with someone(around your weight) sitting in the drivers seat. That will also make a slight difference as to the alignment specs/readings. You should also have had a half tank of fuel - when you do an alignment.

They did not, and I did have a half a tank of fuel.

And if I wanted 3/16 toe in for the rear axle, the alignment is not even close

Guess I need some help here to convert the numbers.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

You might want to ask your shop IF they did the alignment with someone(around your weight) sitting in the drivers seat. That will also make a slight difference as to the alignment specs/readings. You should also have had a half tank of fuel - when you do an alignment.

That is how alignment and corner balancing should be done.

[xerox445]

Man! I was totally unaware everyone drives on the track alone, without an instructor on this forum. I gotta get my pro-ness up.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by xerox445

Man! I was totally unaware everyone drives on the track alone, without an instructor on this forum. I gotta get my pro-ness up.

I see what you did there.

[128_Pilot]

So can someone check me on this please?

My front toe shows .12 & .13 so that works out to be 3/32 positive toe (toe in) where I had asked for 1/16 toe out or -0.87 per side correct?

Thanks again,

Eric

[DriveHard]

as seen from above the front wheels

front of car ( front tires)

\ / this is negative toe out ( great for auto-x / tracking) ( bad tire wear )

/ \ this is positive toe in ( better for mid to high speed stability)

| | zero toe... some people like this... i have found that it depends on the tires and the roads you are on commonly.. could be sensative.


all of our rear tires AS SEEN FROM ABOVE need to be like this

/ \



camber

/ \ negative camber >> both front and rear tires need to look like this as seen from BEHIND

[128_Pilot]

Thank you for taking the time to respond Drivehard, perhaps you misunderstood my question? I am up to speed on camber and toe, just not the format in which my local BMW shop printed out the alignment settings.

[1speedbike]

128 Pilot, when you got the front wishbones + tension rods plus the headlight linkages (both sides totaling to around $300 by the looks of it), do your tension arms look like what's being sold here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448753

It seems like just the tension rods in that post are around 300 bucks new, and seem to be separate from the wishbone/control arm, at least according to the comments to the thread, so that just kinda confused me. If I buy a full kit with the wishbones, tension arms, and linkages, will I be getting what that guy is selling? Sorry to thread-jack, but I figure you have some experience.

Also, by the looks of the printout, either BMW fucked up or for some reason they just couldn't decrease your toe on the front angle. Positive angle is toe-in, negative is toe-out. You definitely have the front axle toe-in, but it looks like they reduced the toe (made it less positive) from 1.50/1.47 to .12/.13. So they made you more toe-out than you started... but you're still toe-in. Your rear is also toe-in, but much less so. I hope I understood your question correctly!

[128_Pilot]

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Hey 1speedbike thanks for confirming what I was thinking. I know the toe was waaay out of wack after I installed the arms, and I find it hard to believe the tech used all the adjustment on the streering rack and that's the best he could do? I will find out tomorrow when I take the car into another shop to have another alignment. BMW already sent me a request to fill out a survey, hopefully someone will read my response.

As for your question, when I compared my tension arms coming off the car to the new M3 replacement ones, they were the same except for the bushing being diff, it had less flex. I was thinking the arm itself would have been lighter and or made diff. It was not as far as I could see. And for cost, I ended up paying $116.00 for each tension arm, $116.00 for each control arm, and $13.00 for the headlight link. If that guy is asking $200.00 for both tension arms, with 25K miles on them, IMO his is "high".

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by 128_Pilot

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Hey 1speedbike thanks for confirming what I was thinking. I know the toe was waaay out of wack after I installed the arms, and I find it hard to believe the tech used all the adjustment on the streering rack and that's the best he could do? I will find out tomorrow when I take the car into another shop to have another alignment. BMW already sent me a request to fill out a survey, hopefully someone will read my response.

As for your question, when I compared my tension arms coming off the car to the new M3 replacement ones, they were the same except for the bushing being diff, it had less flex. I was thinking the arm itself would have been lighter and or made diff. It was not as far as I could see. And for cost, I ended up paying $116.00 for each tension arm, $116.00 for each control arm, and $13.00 for the headlight link. If that guy is asking $200.00 for both tension arms, with 25K miles on them, IMO his is "high".

I don't know why BMW would ignore your requests, but that's just messed up! I also find it hard to believe they couldn't align it the way you requested, so I wonder if they just have guidelines against aggressive alignment specs or something, since it's a dealership. Let us know what ends up happening!

Ahhh okay, I understand. Thank you for clearing that up! If you don't mind me asking, where did you purchase from? I'm probably going to end up making this my christmas present to myself, and the prices you got seem very fair

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

I don't know why BMW would ignore your requests, but that's just messed up! I also find it hard to believe they couldn't align it the way you requested, so I wonder if they just have guidelines against aggressive alignment specs or something, since it's a dealership. Let us know what ends up happening!

Well here is the alignment from a diff non BMW shop that was done this morning.

Compare the "Initial" specs column with the "Final" column. The initial was my BMW's 2nd alignment compared to this shop's work. It's AMAZING I now have negative toe on the front axle lol

Oh well... live and learn. And thanks so much for everyone's help. Now I feel good with this set up. (for now lol)

[1speedbike]

Sweet! Everything looks good! Either BMW techs have no idea what they're doing, or they're just advised or ordered against aggressive alignment specs. I have a friend that's a BMW tech that I could ask, though..

Thanks for the update and the help with my own quest for M3 parts

Enjoy the ride, my man!

[1-2MANY]

I'm about to purchase these. Do you guys that have them feel like they're worth it or should I spend the money elsewhere. I have the M3 front sway already and that was def worth it IMO.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Sweet! Everything looks good! Either BMW techs have no idea what they're doing, or they're just advised or ordered against aggressive alignment specs.

I think it's the tech. The 2nd alignment was no charge because of the 1st one being wrong. I had emailed the service advisor the spec's I was requesting and he assured me (as he did on the 1st one) that the spec's I was requesting was not an issue (although he admittedly said all this was over his head). And even forwarded the email to the tech so everyone would be on the same page. I think if was a policy issue, that they would simple say that and not offer a 2nd alignment for no charge.

Either way, I am happy where I ended up and learned a little something along the way. Life is good!

[Evice]

Since I am out of warranty now, as soon as I finish my racecar build (e36 m3), I will focus on my 128. Good information here!

Now, tell us your driving impressions.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by Evice

Since I am out of warranty now, as soon as I finish my racecar build (e36 m3), I will focus on my 128. Good information here!

Now, tell us your driving impressions.

Well there is the rub Evice... before I started on this project to ultimately improve turn in, and help dial out some understeer I switched over to my winter tires. So the gains will have to wait to be enjoyed, and articulated on until next spring. With the snows on I can tell the car is much happier to turn into a corner, but as some of you know who drive in the snow... it's like having sex with a condom on.

So now I am turning my focus on wheel fitments and tire sizes for the long awaited spring to arrive. OZ Racing Ultraleggera's... or Apex ARC-8 wheels with Michelin's Super Sports, or Conti's DW's.

Thinkin' of 245/35-18's square (which Michelin does not make yet... maybe next spring they will introduce it?). However I am tempted to go for the massive 275 look on the rear and 245's up front using the ARC-8's. BTW anyone know the country of origin of the ARC-8's?

One of side benefit of getting the car to turn in better has gained me more wheel & tire fitment possibilities due to the added front camber.

Life is good!

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by 1-2MANY

I'm about to purchase these. Do you guys that have them feel like they're worth it or should I spend the money elsewhere. I have the M3 front sway already and that was def worth it IMO.

Never really experienced it, but I think it's worth it. The 135i already provides a good amount of steering feedback, and the front control arm kit not only stiffens up the front and adds a bit of negative camber, but also gives you much improved steering feel. Having your car feel more "///M-like" in any driving situation seems definitely worth it to me

[Evice]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Never really experienced it, but I think it's worth it. The 135i already provides a good amount of steering feedback, and the front control arm kit not only stiffens up the front and adds a bit of negative camber, but also gives you much improved steering feel. Having your car feel more "///M-like" in any driving situation seems definitely worth it to me

I am sure it is worth it, better than stock pieces.

Do you have any track experience or just spirited driving?

[1Pirate]

128_Pilot, my control arm kit is scheduled to arrive today. Since you just did this do you have any additional advice as far as the install and the alignment go? I already have the E93 M sway bar installed.

[128_Pilot]

Originally Posted by 1Pirate

128_Pilot, my control arm kit is scheduled to arrive today. Since you just did this do you have any additional advice as far as the install and the alignment go? I already have the E93 M sway bar installed.

Yes one thing when installing the lower arms, some folks advise to lube up the one bushing end to help sliding them into the sub frame. When I did this it was still a SOB to get in which makes sense due to the fact the bolt that secures the OE one also pinches together the sub frame. Couple of well placed smacks with a rubber mallet to open things up a little will go a long way. Just don't go ballistic. Here is a photo (not a good one sorry) showing you what I am talking about. If look closely on the bottom of the sub frame you will see how they cut out a U shape to locate the control arm. After I opened this open a tad they slid right in without the need of a rubber mallet to force them into place. I was kinda surprised how malleable the sub frame was to be honest. Anyways, check your fitment and if are tempted to use a rubber mallet to force the arms in, I'd rather see you open up the frame a tad instead.

The process over all is very simple, and very easy if you are using a lift. Hope this helps... have fun!



The front control arm connecting to the sub frame (tension arm) as you can see in this photo (behind the sway bar) is made in such a way that it did not change the spacing due to torquing the bolt at the factory as compared to the lower control arm connecting point to the frame. This did not require massaging, the arms slid right in.