Forced Induction--128i

[Ash-Halim]

Originally Posted by kc_skyrider

I apologize for my bluntness but I think people here are smoking something. The amount of aftermarket for a N/A car that has a FI twin is limited at best. Just look at the lancer, subaru impreza, N/A Supras, Eclipse GS and every other car made in this fashion. Yes it can be done and it's no harder than taking any other N/A car and adding FI however it's a matter of cost. Whose going to spend thousands in R&D knowing that by the time it's done the cost difference between a used N52 and a used N54 is going to be 2-4 thousand. And after you add the 60hp to catch a 128i up to it's big brother all the N54 needs is a $500 piggy back to jump an additional 60HP. So to make a competitive 128i kit you have to start by adding 120hp for what $2,500. And reliabilty?, aren't you forgetting the largest difference between the N54 & N52 is the block itself. An N52 is made of alot of magnesium the reason BMW went through the effort of making an identical block out of pure aluminum although it weights more is because they did not feel the Magnesium block could last at N54 stock power levels.

Whoever says the N52 is a better or superior engine is more bias than I am. Just look at how many "Engine of the year" and similar awards were given to the N54. Yes the HPFP's have been a blemish on it's history, however the simple fact that BMW went so far out off it's beaten path and designed a motor that produces such amazing power with so much economy shows it was being progressive and when your in uncharted territory new problems can arise. We do all remember how long Vanos took to perfect! I have no problems replacing a HPFP or two if it means I own an engine people are reliably getting 50% more power than the already amazing stock levels on without major failures.

Accept what you have for why you purchased it. If you wanted a sports car you buy a 135i. If you want a sporty commuter you buy the 128i. If you decide to make your 128i like a 135i your going to pay more than the cost of a 135i. And yes a superchargers linear power curve is great, but nothing can be as addictive as the torque delivery from my twin turbos.

I think its all a matter of where a person is coming from. I got the 128i as a gift (not my choice). This is why i hate when i talk about getting more power out of it people start acting like i am retard for not getting a 135i. And i did not say anything about trying to compete with the 135i. Therefore, if i have no car payment and have a lot of extra $$$, who are u to say what is good or not good to do with it. Yes, it will cost a lot, but it depends where u are comin from. "but nothing can be as addictive as the torque delivery from my twin turbos" -you, that is ur own opinion (i hope the lag is as addictive also).

[The1]

one more thought to kc_skyrider

who says the 128 crowd want as much power as the 135s have?

I'm sure they'd be happy with an extra 60-70hp over stock, witch with their gearing is going to make them about as fast as the 135s

None of them said they want to be faster then the 135, they just want to get a little more out of their engines.

However, you're right otherwise, except for the part about making big power.

the 135s power is more then most people know what to do with in the first place.

[kc_skyrider]

Wow. I knew for a fact I would be flamed for my comments. However everyone who replied has just proved the BMW crowd to be a class act.

The arguements here are very valid. I was reluctant to ever step into the realm of FI myself. I have a 86.5 Fiero GT which I built a 3.4 from a camero for. I loved this car because I was taking out all the turbo charged civics and 240SX's in my town and I was doing it all motor! I also enjoyed my SVT Focus which was a very powerful N/A 2.0 and alot of fun to drive. The point I tried to make in these cars was in the sport compact world American cars can still compete and without F/I. And I proved this point quite often. I apologize to all those who never had expectations of an aftermarket allowing you to exceed slightly modified 135i's

With that said I also understand necessity may be the mother of all invention but passion is what drives people who mod cars, and I see no lack of that amoungst the 128i crowd. Best of luck to all of you and I hope some of the innovations from non N54 engine owners transfers to the other great engines our manufacturer produces.

P.S. to Ash-Halim: Here's an open invitation if you ever find yourself in Germany you are invited to come and drive my car. When you're done I just ask that I can look you in the eyes and ask "What lag?" When I want to drive economical I have to watch my boost gauge to know just when the turbos spool up.

[texasmojo]

I just didnt want to run into my evo experience. Bought the evo only to take out stock turbo and replace with aftermarket big turbo. Basicly needed everything different from the ground up. I spent twice because of replacing all the stock stuff i had already paid for and was now useless. I really thought there would be way more aftermarket for the 128i with a couple FI systems out there.

[kc_skyrider]

Do you think a Lancer could have handled what your upgraded turbo was pushing without spending more than the cost of EVO + Mods. I honestly think the 4G63 is the only engine Mitsu ever made that can take raw power like that and still manage to push it all out the crank (not through fist sized holes in the block). And I might be wrong but I don't think they even put the 4G63 in the lancer. You would have had to buy engine transmission driveshaft differential suspension brakes wheels tires ECU and exhaust. Thats just to make a lancer roll forward with basic evo components + AWD and imagine the labor

[Sdracing]

With all the problems they are seeing on the 135i, I think forced induction on the 128i is just a matter of time. Would anyone familiar with the issues with the 135i buy it out of warranty? I wouldn't.

Swapping a supercharger on an engine isn't brain surgery. Hiding boost from the CPU isn't particularly difficult. The think the biggest issue would be kinks with the DBW, but people have figured that out too.

Demand is the biggest issue....but for the track I would take a S/C 128i pushing 290-310 RWHP over a twin turbo 135i.

[kc_skyrider]

Originally Posted by Sdracing

With all the problems they are seeing on the 135i, I think forced induction on the 128i is just a matter of time. Would anyone familiar with the issues with the 135i buy it out of warranty? I wouldn't.

Swapping a supercharger on an engine isn't brain surgery. Hiding boost from the CPU isn't particularly difficult. The think the biggest issue would be kinks with the DBW, but people have figured that out too.

Demand is the biggest issue....but for the track I would take a S/C 128i pushing 290-310 RWHP over a twin turbo 135i.

The HPFP is the only common issue. I bought my car and modded it well beyond warranty after 2 months of break-in. So yes someone would buy it out of warranty. I've even paid out of pocket to replace my HPFP. $300 and 1.5hrs of my time working on my baby. I'd do this every 10,000miles for the life of the car for my 400rwhp. More demand for a 135i than a S/C 128i. Just look at the numbers on the road

[Ash-Halim]

Originally Posted by kc_skyrider

The HPFP is the only common issue. I bought my car and modded it well beyond warranty after 2 months of break-in. So yes someone would buy it out of warranty. I've even paid out of pocket to replace my HPFP. $300 and 1.5hrs of my time working on my baby. I'd do this every 10,000miles for the life of the car for my 400rwhp. More demand for a 135i than a S/C 128i. Just look at the numbers on the road

For some people, its not ALL about "the numbers on the road." Reliabilty and comfortable ride play in there too. And how can you say there is more demand for a 135i than a S/C 128i just by what u demand? Also, thats kinda sad u bought it out of warranty and then paid out of pocket to replace the HPFP..u kinda just proved that the 135i is not as reliable. However, in the end, if u can do it and u like the numbers, its all about preference and opinions.

[Sdracing]

Originally Posted by Ash-Halim

For some people, its not ALL about "the numbers on the road." Reliabilty and comfortable ride play in there too. And how can you say there is more demand for a 135i than a S/C 128i just by what u demand? Also, thats kinda sad u bought it out of warranty and then paid out of pocket to replace the HPFP..u kinda just proved that the 135i is not as reliable. However, in the end, if u can do it and u like the numbers, its all about preference and opinions.

I agree 100%.

Reliability plays into everyone's consideration at some point in time. Look at the early 1999-2002 911 aka 996. The problems with these cars (before they fixed the seals in later model years) are well known, and the resale value reflects the problem.

Nonetheless, it would be cool to have the option of getting a S/C on a 128i. I'm not sure this 135i guy doesn't want 128i peeps to mod their cars.

Anyway, it looks like one vendor is in the process of putting one together.

[jaf89f]

which vendor is that ^^

[Sdracing]

This is GreenKirby's find:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405478

[kc_skyrider]

Originally Posted by Ash-Halim

For some people, its not ALL about "the numbers on the road." Reliabilty and comfortable ride play in there too. And how can you say there is more demand for a 135i than a S/C 128i just by what u demand? Also, thats kinda sad u bought it out of warranty and then paid out of pocket to replace the HPFP..u kinda just proved that the 135i is not as reliable. However, in the end, if u can do it and u like the numbers, its all about preference and opinions.

There has been 1 common fault specific to the 135i. That doesn't constitute over all reliability. I'm sure it's over reported since when someone has an issue like this they seek out these forums. And comfortable ride? Are you serious it's the same car! Unless of course you want the sport suspension, that alot of 128i's have. and if your adding power this is pretty much a must. I went to a bilstein pss10 simply because the comfortable ride made the car simply feel loose at high speeds. I bought my car with warranty and if I choose I could replace all my mods to have OEM parts replace and someone else change my oil but I didn't buy a fun car to let someone else work on it. I know most people would pay alot of money to avoid getting oil under their nails but I enjoy learning more about my car by taking it apart and putting it back together. And I paid $36,600 for my 135i brand new and delivered @ 2miles on the odometer with M sports package and nav. So with the second fuel pump at $300 i'm still about $3,000 less than what car is typically going for. I understand this is only about preference and opinions. please base yours on fact. There are MANY companies offering turbo upgrades on the 135i. There is one that might offer a S/C upgrade on a 128i and they've been out the same amount of time in the USA. In europe the N52 powered 1series has been around longer. The people making these products aren't ignoring the N52 community there's just not enough people asking them for these goodies and they don't see the profit potential based on percieved demand. A company makes a tune for a Honda CR-Z for gods sake

I support all modding I would love to see S/C 128i's all over the streets and destroying Mustang GT's left and right. Just look at history if you want to mod you would buy a grand am GTP not a GT, a Eclipse GS-X; GS-T not a GS, A Supra TT, not a Supra N/A, a V-8 Camero or Mustang not a V-6, an Evo not a lancer. Have people bought the less mod friendly car and worked hard and spent more money than the faster model in a pursuit to have more fun in the car they are passionate about ABSOLUTELY I'm one of them, It was the Eclipse GS . But if this is your goal don't wait for a company to do it. Your probably going to enjoy modding more and save more money if you just go ahead and find DIY improvements, and it will save you the ridiculous BMW tax.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by Evice

Speaking of NA I6s. I believe soon we will be able to extract out that HP from that N52. Yes serious modification will be needed, but I believe it can be done. I firmly believe N52 is a better engine then N54/55

Of course you do...you drive one lol