Are People Just Stupid???

[tellcarl2]

BIMMERPOST / Classifieds

Asking Price:

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Item Interest

This is ALMOST off-topic...I'm actually looking for a 135i or 135is with 6MT and I'm sure this has been beaten to death elsewhere BUT...

WHY DO DEALERSHIPS LIST CARS WITH DCT AS MANUAL????

Even BMW dealerships commit this sin

So consider this a WTB. But maybe I'll repost this rant elsewhere...

[Cavpilot2k]

I'm with you.
Because some people refuse to accept that a DCT is a form of automatic transmission with a manual option, and not actually a manual transmission.

I keep finding M2s listed as MT and the interior pics show they are clearly DCT. Very annoying.

A DCT is no more a manual transmission than any automatic transmission that has a manual shift option (most of them these days).

[xQx]

Because car sales sites haven't updated their search criteria.

Sure, I'll concede that a DCT is more of an Automatic transmission than it is a Manual gearbox; but its predecessor, the SMG is a Sequential MANUAL gearbox.

However, some sites don't even make that consession:

"A DCT is more similar to a manual transmission than a traditional automatic, but instead of one clutch engaging with a flywheel, two separate clutches work together. A PDK gearbox uses hydraulically actuated wet-clutch packs, one enveloped around the other. One clutch connects reverse, first, third, fifth and seventh gears, the other handles second, fourth and sixth. As opposed to a clutch pedal on the floor, an electronically controlled valve body actuates the correct clutch when it’s needed. The PDK only engages one clutch at a time. However, because gear sets alternate between clutches, as one disengages the other can engage in one fluid motion."
https://autoweek.com/article/technol...oweek-explains

In all fairness, A SMG or a DCT isn't a manual, but it's not an auto either.

Therefore, if the listing site only gives two incorrect options (Auto/Manual), You can expect cars with SMG/DCT gearboxes to be listed as whatever listing is going to result in the most views or highest sale price. ie. Automatic in passenger cars; Manual in sports cars.

The classifieds need to update their options.

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

A DCT is no more a manual transmission than any automatic transmission that has a manual shift option (most of them these days).

As the owner of a xHP tuned slushbox with paddles, I'm inclined to agree with you; but I can say with certainty owners of DCT's vehemently disagree with that assertion

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by xQx

Because car sales sites haven't updated their search criteria.

Sure, I'll concede that a DCT is more of an Automatic transmission than it is a Manual gearbox; but its predecessor, the SMG is a Sequential MANUAL gearbox.

However, some sites don't even make that consession:

"A DCT is more similar to a manual transmission than a traditional automatic, but instead of one clutch engaging with a flywheel, two separate clutches work together. A PDK gearbox uses hydraulically actuated wet-clutch packs, one enveloped around the other. One clutch connects reverse, first, third, fifth and seventh gears, the other handles second, fourth and sixth. As opposed to a clutch pedal on the floor, an electronically controlled valve body actuates the correct clutch when it’s needed. The PDK only engages one clutch at a time. However, because gear sets alternate between clutches, as one disengages the other can engage in one fluid motion."
https://autoweek.com/article/technol...oweek-explains

In all fairness, A SMG or a DCT isn't a manual, but it's not an auto either.

Therefore, if the listing site only gives two incorrect options (Auto/Manual), You can expect cars with SMG/DCT gearboxes to be listed as whatever listing is going to result in the most views or highest sale price. ie. Automatic in passenger cars; Manual in sports cars.

The classifieds need to update their options.




As the owner of a xHP tuned slushbox with paddles, I'm inclined to agree with you; but I can say with certainty owners of DCT's vehemently disagree with that assertion

Not to start a war over it or anything, but I dare say they ARE an automatic transmission. Because it will shift automatically unles you put it in manual mode, in which case it will STILL shift automatically in some circumstances (like to avoid stalling). So it is a semi-manual automatic?

[Cavpilot2k]

Look, I;m not knocking DCT or anything, and while behind the curtain where we can't see what's going on, the mechanism functions very differently from a traditional automatic...

HOWEVER, on the functional/operator end of things, a DCT works just like an automatic. I.e. it will shift automatically for you unless you choose to shift manually, in which case it will still override you in some circumstances, just like an automatic tranny. So again, you can point to what the clutches are doing behind the scenes all you want, but as far as driver interface, they are basically the same as any modern automatic that has a manual shift option.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tellcarl2

This is ALMOST off-topic...I'm actually looking for a 135i or 135is with 6MT and I'm sure this has been beaten to death elsewhere BUT...

WHY DO DEALERSHIPS LIST CARS WITH DCT AS MANUAL????

Even BMW dealerships commit this sin

So consider this a WTB. But maybe I'll repost this rant elsewhere...

I am looking at an M2 this weekend, so may sell my 135is but I’m DCT.

[xQx]

Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k

Not to start a war over it or anything, but I dare say they ARE an automatic transmission. Because it will shift automatically unles you put it in manual mode, in which case it will STILL shift automatically in some circumstances (like to avoid stalling). So it is a semi-manual automatic?

Yeah, I agree. I'd call them a fully-automatic manual.

But manufacturers and DCT owners think they're superior to auto transmissions. - so they won't want their car listed with the inferior autos - and they're going to choose the "Manual" option if "Automatic or Manual" are the only options.

... kinda like M-Sport owners who think they have a //M

All kidding aside, I think this problem can only be solved by carsales et. al. to update their options to "Automatic, Manual, DCT/SMG/PDK"

[nachob]

Originally Posted by tellcarl2

This is ALMOST off-topic...I'm actually looking for a 135i or 135is with 6MT and I'm sure this has been beaten to death elsewhere BUT...

WHY DO DEALERSHIPS LIST CARS WITH DCT AS MANUAL????

Even BMW dealerships commit this sin

So consider this a WTB. But maybe I'll repost this rant elsewhere...

Was having the same issue recently. They are stupid. If they can't tell the difference or think they will trick you into it being a manual and you will buy it. It's insane. Dealerships do it the most. They are trying to snow the public that a paddle automatic is a manual because you go into manual mode. That's like saying Atari Pong is table tennis because you move the knob to hit pong ball!

[tellcarl2]

Originally Posted by nachob

Was having the same issue recently. They are stupid. If they can't tell the difference or think they will trick you into it being a manual and you will buy it. It's insane. Dealerships do it the most. They are trying to snow the public that a paddle automatic is a manual because you go into manual mode. That's like saying Atari Pong is table tennis because you move the knob to hit pong ball!

Literally no one searching "manual transmission" is going to consider it a MT if there's no third pedal on the floor. It makes me want to start ordering them from carvana and then returning them until someone gets it right

[tellcarl2]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

I am looking at an M2 this weekend, so may sell my 135is but I’m DCT.

PM me the details if you decide to put it on the market. I might be interested-it's looking like it could be a very long wait...

[E85 Sport]

Originally Posted by tellcarl2

WHY DO DEALERSHIPS LIST CARS WITH DCT AS MANUAL

It’s super annoying. Used car sites need to expand beyond simply “automatic or manual” criteria.

Porsche USA’s pre-owned website is the only one that does it right. They have options for Manual, Automatic, Tiptronic, or Doppelkupplung (PDK).

Now let’s talk about nav. Some folks, like me, don’t want that big ugly outdated bright television screen plastered on their dashboard. Search sites shouldn’t have a check box for nav. They should have a YES OR NO selection so I can specifically exclude cars that are equipped with this feature. It’s such a disappointment when you find a car that looks perfect for you, only to scroll to the 23rd picture and realize it’s got that fugly nav screen ruining everything.

[tellcarl2]

Originally Posted by E85 Sport

It’s super annoying. Used car sites need to expand beyond simply “automatic or manual” criteria.

Porsche USA’s pre-owned website is the only one that does it right. They have options for Manual, Automatic, Tiptronic, or Doppelkupplung (PDK).

Now let’s talk about nav. Some folks, like me, don’t want that big ugly outdated bright television screen plastered on their dashboard. Search sites shouldn’t have a check box for nav. They should have a YES OR NO selection so I can specifically exclude cars that are equipped with this feature. It’s such a disappointment when you find a car that looks perfect for you, only to scroll to the 23rd picture and realize it’s got that fugly nav screen ruining everything.

If I know where I'm going in my Jaguar, I have the option of turning the nav screen dark except for a soothing and cerebral leaper logo in silver. ahhhhh

[E85 Sport]

Originally Posted by tellcarl2

If I know where I'm going in my Jaguar, I have the option of turning the nav screen dark except for a soothing and cerebral leaper logo in silver. ahhhhh

You deserve all the DCTs-labeled-manuals Carl. Get out of here with that crazy talk. Cats don’t like to be told where to go. Cats go where they want!

[tellcarl2]

Originally Posted by E85 Sport

You deserve all the DCTs-labeled-manuals Carl. Get out of here with that crazy talk. Cats don’t like to be told where to go. Cats go where they want!

The Jag's sat nav is about as useless as a 'manual transmission' search category on a used car search site. Both are probably best ignored.

[E85 Sport]

Originally Posted by tellcarl2

The Jag's sat nav is about as useless as a 'manual transmission' search category on a used car search site. Both are probably best ignored.

Meow.

[Divbetic]

Carmax is the only reliable car dealer as far as marking transmission type. Don't think I've seen a manual BMW mismarked there yet.

[tracer bullet]

I think the answer is more simple, someone just lists the wrong type to start with either out of ignorance or laziness. If you search the other way you'll find 3-pedal manuals listed under the automatics. If you're searching any site for cars, Carmax, BMWUSA, whatever, always look at the interior pictures to spot the things you're looking for. Always. Transmission type, M-Sport or not, HK stereo, etc.

[Cavpilot2k]

Originally Posted by nachob

That's like saying Atari Pong is table tennis because you move the knob to hit pong ball!

[stevodotorg]

With that said, I have found manuals listed as auto.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by xQx

Because car sales sites haven't updated their search criteria.

Sure, I'll concede that a DCT is more of an Automatic transmission than it is a Manual gearbox; but its predecessor, the SMG is a Sequential MANUAL gearbox.

However, some sites don't even make that consession:

"A DCT is more similar to a manual transmission than a traditional automatic, but instead of one clutch engaging with a flywheel, two separate clutches work together. A PDK gearbox uses hydraulically actuated wet-clutch packs, one enveloped around the other. One clutch connects reverse, first, third, fifth and seventh gears, the other handles second, fourth and sixth. As opposed to a clutch pedal on the floor, an electronically controlled valve body actuates the correct clutch when it's needed. The PDK only engages one clutch at a time. However, because gear sets alternate between clutches, as one disengages the other can engage in one fluid motion."
https://autoweek.com/article/technol...oweek-explains

In all fairness, A SMG or a DCT isn't a manual, but it's not an auto either.

Therefore, if the listing site only gives two incorrect options (Auto/Manual), You can expect cars with SMG/DCT gearboxes to be listed as whatever listing is going to result in the most views or highest sale price. ie. Automatic in passenger cars; Manual in sports cars.

The classifieds need to update their options.

As the owner of a xHP tuned slushbox with paddles, I'm inclined to agree with you; but I can say with certainty owners of DCT's vehemently disagree with that assertion

Respectfully, I see your point but the main feature is that all automatics can shift fully automatically and actually default to automatic. The reason people buy them is so they can run them automatically in traffic when sipping a latte or in launch control. It is an automatic that has manual shifting capability. Please bear with me. A Swiss Army knife has a wine opener but the entire world calls it a Swiss Army knife not a wine opener. Yet people call automatics of any flavor manual if they can also shift. Even the shifting with paddle is computer controlled. Try downshifting at 100 miles per hour into second gear in an automatic. Computer won't allow it but you can in a manual because it is manual not computer controlled. Again I respectfully see your point hope you can see mine. And this is not just some esoteric thing. It is time wasting when looking for cars. I have to look for interior pictures over and over again or email dealers or do vin lookups when no interior pics included.

Thank you.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by stevodotorg

With that said, I have found manuals listed as auto.

This. I look at all listings that look appealing and a quick look at the interior picture solves the problem.

[swunder]

Anyone filtering by 'manual' is looking for 3 pedals.

I had this issue when searching for my car, very frustrating. Paddles are not manual.