Anyone get a dinan tune yet?

[joelk]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

I may be doing the Dinan tune also on the 135i. The website does not mention the addition for the Dinan oil cooler for the 135i like it does for the 335i. Is this not reccomended for the 135i as well? Should I be worried getting the tune without the Dinan oil cooler upgrade. My 135i will have the factory oil cooler, as I'll be getting the Sport Package. Did anyone call Dinan and ask about that? I don't want to risk shortened engine life if I dont have the larger oil cooler.

it's perfectly fine as long as you have an oil cooler. Dinan won't install the software without the oil cooler ... stock or theirs doesn't matter. Keep an eye on your oil temp and if it gets too high then you can always switch to the Dinan cooler right? Won't be a problem.

[edge350]

Originally Posted by joelk

definitely an improvement though ... and the sound is really good. the car sounds mean. i don't need a faster car that this.

Hmmm....that got me.
Joel, I was thinking about the Dinan flash, but I think you just sold me. When someone states they've reached their personal speed limit...You're either exceptionally self-aware or that is one ridiculously fast car.
:smile:

[joelk]

Originally Posted by edge350

Hmmm....that got me.
Joel, I was thinking about the Dinan flash, but I think you just sold me. When someone states they've reached their personal speed limit...You're either exceptionally self-aware or that is one ridiculously fast car.
:smile:

lol give me a month. i'm scaring myself now but i'll surely get used to it. :biggrin:

[edge350]

Does the reflash affect the speed limiter?

[joelk]

Originally Posted by edge350

Does the reflash affect the speed limiter?

yup. it goes away!

edit: I should clarify my "low-end" complaint. The torque is still there if you press the pedal further down than stock. Depressing the pedal a little bit gives a more restrained response in 1st gear. I suppose it makes for easier "around town" driving.

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by joelk

My initial observations are exactly in line with the comments made on E90 forum. There's definitely more pep and butt in seat torque at the higher rpms. But 1st gear is a bit sluggish. You really have to dump the throttle in first gear ... feels like the torque isn't as level as the stock tune....it ramps up and you really notice the improvement around 4k. At the moment though I've got to learn how to drive this new tune.

This seems wrong. Does anyone actually have a dyno run before and after on the same dyno on the same day to prove this? Everyone is saying there are big gains at higher rpms, which I believe, but I don't see how you end up with lower than stock values for lower rpms unless it's a terrible tune.

[joelk]

Originally Posted by saturn

This seems wrong. Does anyone actually have a dyno run before and after on the same dyno on the same day to prove this? Everyone is saying there are big gains at higher rpms, which I believe, but I don't see how you end up with lower than stock values for lower rpms unless it's a terrible tune.

yeah i didn't do a good job explaining it. all i was trying to say was that for a small throttle depressions in 1st gear the Dinan tuned car doesn't seem to accelerate as immediately as the stock car. pressing the throttle down a bit more produces plenty of torque. sorry for not being accurate earlier.

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File...A%20EDITED.pdf

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by joelk

yeah i didn't do a good job explaining it. all i was trying to say was that for a small throttle depressions in 1st gear the Dinan tuned car doesn't seem to accelerate as immediately as the stock car. pressing the throttle down a bit more produces plenty of torque. sorry for not being accurate earlier.

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File/Press%20Release%20335i%20software%20REV%20A%20EDIT ED.pdf

No worries. I didn't see your last post before mine.

edit: The results in that link seems to point to the fact that getting a new exhaust is a complete waste of money. Only marginal impovements over the tune alone.

[b2nvs2001]

Originally Posted by joelk

Well it's done! Just got back from getting the Dinan tune.

My initial observations are exactly in line with the comments made on E90 forum. There's definitely more pep and butt in seat torque at the higher rpms. But 1st gear is a bit sluggish. You really have to dump the throttle in first gear ... feels like the torque isn't as level as the stock tune....it ramps up and you really notice the improvement around 4k. At the moment though I've got to learn how to drive this new tune.

People on other forums say it you eventually love it but it takes a few days for either you or the computer to adjust. Right now it's different and I'll need some time to learn how to drive the car all over again.

Don't take this as a negative impression ... it's definitely got more pep at middle to higher rpms ... i just wish it were more responsive down low in 1st. I suspect my brain will adjust for this tune and I'll find the sweet spots quickly.

we shall see!

edit: just in case there was any question, it is exactly the same tune they put in the 335 and 535.

edit2: just to clarify my concern with the low rpms in 1st gear wasn't explained well. all i meant was that a small depression of the throttle didn't produce the same immediate response as i was used to in stock. depressing the pedal further than i was accustom to produced plenty of torque.

Hiya guys,

I didn't want to say anything, but I was actually the first 135i on the west coast with the Dinan tune. After they flashed my car and it worked, they immediately put the 135 ecu flash on the website! I wanted to make sure everything was fine before I went ahead and told you guys anything. I agree completely with what Joelk has said and have spoke to Dinan about this and they will get back to me. There is a kind of "flat spot" at around 1-2k rpm. I think this is due to Dinan wanting to get the 1-2 mpg better in fuel economy over stock. The car now acts more like a real "turboed car" i.e. slight lag and then blam: your gone! The bottom line is you lose some of the linear characteristics of acceleration with the stock ecu map i.e. driveability but you get far more oomph in mid range and top end. Sorry for waiting so long but speak to Nick Mitchell at Dinan on the west coast if you guys want more info :
Dinan - Morgan Hill:
865 Jarvis Drive
Morgan Hill CA 95037
(408) 779-8584.

Just ask them about the black 135!

They were truly an enthusiastic bunch, all of them circling around the car, giving it the thumbs up. One of them wanted to test the "handling" for future products and said I could drive his supercharged M3 if I would let him but unfortunately, with how long I have waited for the car and she having less than 1000 miles on the clock at the moment, I am still too attached to the car and don't have big enough balls (cahones) to let even a professional drive it. I promised him later - maybe!

The main concern at the moment is if the flat spot will become slightly less flat! Heres hoping!

[imported_saturn]

^ Let us know if you hear anything. I am excited about the Dinan tune, but I'm absolutely not excited about turning this car into an Evo or something that explodes around 4k. I'd sacrifice mpg or total gain for a slightly more linear curve.

[foxtrot]

Originally Posted by joelk

yeah i didn't do a good job explaining it. all i was trying to say was that for a small throttle depressions in 1st gear the Dinan tuned car doesn't seem to accelerate as immediately as the stock car. pressing the throttle down a bit more produces plenty of torque. sorry for not being accurate earlier.

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File/Press%20Release%20335i%20software%20REV%20A%20EDIT ED.pdf

WARNING: Rampant speculation ahead!

If I had to make a guess: Auto makers make the throttle cam so that moving the throttle pedal just a little bit opens up the throttle a lot, and the amount the throttle opens the further you move the pedal reduces. This is because it makes the car appear to have more power-- you just push the pedal a little and oh, it goes. Great for selling cars.

Randy Pobst, in a recent issue of Sportscar magazine, noted that this is completely backward from what a racer should want: A little bit of throttle pedal should get you a little bit of power, so you have more control over how much power you're putting down.

Now, the N54 doesn't appear to have a throttle cam in the traditional sense of the word, but I suspect it does the same thing in software. Dinan's putting 400 ft-lbs of torque under you. They're charging you $2k for it. They may well be assuming people who buy their stuff are enthusiasts and race drivers, and resetting that virtual throttle cam in their software to be smoother, to give the driver a better ability to control their new beast-- so it'd be a lot more power, but it wouldn't necessarily feel like it because the power comes on smoother, instead of all at once NOW NOW NOW-- which your girlfriend noticed.

Just a guess, but the clues all seem to add up.

-JDF

Edit: B2nvs2001 noted while I was typing this that Dinan wants to get higher MPG than the stock tune, which makes some sense: If the power doesn't come on all at once, neither does the gas suck.

[joelk]

Originally Posted by b2nvs2001

Hiya guys,
...
The main concern at the moment is if the flat spot will become slightly less flat! Heres hoping!

thanks for chiming in. please let us know if you get a response. you might pass on that others have noticed the same issue.

Originally Posted by foxtrot

WARNING: Rampant speculation ahead!
...

that sounds like a very reasonable theory. re: mpg, if that was the motivation then i really think it was misguided ... who buys a performance tune for increased efficiency?

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by joelk

thanks for chiming in. please let us know if you get a response. you might pass on that others have noticed the same issue.



that sounds like a very reasonable theory. re: mpg, if that was the motivation then i really think it was misguided ... who buys a performance tune for increased efficiency?

Here is the answer:

Dinan software update to address throttle response
I had the Dinan Software Boost Upgrade installed on my 335i coupe yesterday. Following the upgrade, I had an interesting conversation with Dinan which I wanted to share with everyone. I apologize if this has already been discussed.

My first impression of the engine’s performance was that the throttle response was obviously different from before the upgrade, nowhere near as aggressive in the 1500-3000 RPM range. It felt like torque was lower, which would be a contradiction of the reported Dinan statistics. For those of you who are familiar with the Sport button on the E46 M3, the upgraded 335i performed as if someone had turned off the Sport button.

I called Dinan to see if something might have gone wrong with the upgrade. The helpful tech support rep explained it as follows: BMW programmed the 335i’s drive-by-wire throttle response to have a 10-15% boost at low RPM’s (much like what the Sport button does for the M3). When Dinan designed the response for the 335i, they were concerned that if they left the boost, the increased horsepower might result in some dangerous control issues. So, they programmed a linear throttle response which seems kind of dead when compared with the original BMW configuration. This is not to say that the Dinan enhancement doesn’t deliver the horsepower and torque increases as advertised—it just takes a more aggressive pedal-to-the-floor effort to elicit some jaw-dropping acceleration!

The Dinan rep said that they have been overwhelmed with calls regarding this issue, especially from automatic transmission owners (I have a 6-speed manual). As a result, Dinan has reconsidered their approach, and we should expect a software upgrade sometime in May that re-introduces the throttle response boost. The new software will be made available to BMW dealerships, and will be a no-cost upgrade, and a welcome one!

Linky: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129877

[edge350]

Originally Posted by coolguy

Here is the answer:

That makes perfect sense. Thanks, coolguy.
Wow! Great thread.

[b2nvs2001]

Originally Posted by coolguy

Here is the answer:

Dinan software update to address throttle response
I had the Dinan Software Boost Upgrade installed on my 335i coupe yesterday. Following the upgrade, I had an interesting conversation with Dinan which I wanted to share with everyone. I apologize if this has already been discussed.

My first impression of the engine’s performance was that the throttle response was obviously different from before the upgrade, nowhere near as aggressive in the 1500-3000 RPM range. It felt like torque was lower, which would be a contradiction of the reported Dinan statistics. For those of you who are familiar with the Sport button on the E46 M3, the upgraded 335i performed as if someone had turned off the Sport button.

I called Dinan to see if something might have gone wrong with the upgrade. The helpful tech support rep explained it as follows: BMW programmed the 335i’s drive-by-wire throttle response to have a 10-15% boost at low RPM’s (much like what the Sport button does for the M3). When Dinan designed the response for the 335i, they were concerned that if they left the boost, the increased horsepower might result in some dangerous control issues. So, they programmed a linear throttle response which seems kind of dead when compared with the original BMW configuration. This is not to say that the Dinan enhancement doesn’t deliver the horsepower and torque increases as advertised—it just takes a more aggressive pedal-to-the-floor effort to elicit some jaw-dropping acceleration!

The Dinan rep said that they have been overwhelmed with calls regarding this issue, especially from automatic transmission owners (I have a 6-speed manual). As a result, Dinan has reconsidered their approach, and we should expect a software upgrade sometime in May that re-introduces the throttle response boost. The new software will be made available to BMW dealerships, and will be a no-cost upgrade, and a welcome one!

Linky: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129877

That is excellent news! At first, I did think I was making this up in my head and it was because the car was so fast at the top end that the low end felt so slow. But now that a lot of you have found what I did, it has confirmed my thinking. Could you keep us updated as to when this update comes out?!

One other thing I forgot to mention is that you also lose a little refinement, with the car having more "roar" during normal cruising. I speculate that the valve for the exhaust that usually produces the loud roar opens more often and that what ever valve controls exhaust gas out through the downpipes also opens more causing this greater sound. Sometimes annoying but hey, we didn't get this chip so it would get more "mercedes-like." I just hope that as coolguy said, they sort out this "flat-spot" because I honestly do miss that low end driveability torque that made me think I was driving a normal aspiration car.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by joelk

yeah i didn't do a good job explaining it. all i was trying to say was that for a small throttle depressions in 1st gear the Dinan tuned car doesn't seem to accelerate as immediately as the stock car. pressing the throttle down a bit more produces plenty of torque. sorry for not being accurate earlier.

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File...A%20EDITED.pdf

The Dinan tune isn't fully adapted until you put about 100 miles on the car. After that, the throttle response and low-end torque will be very noticeable. This should've been explained to you when you purchased the flash.

Next week you will notice a lot of low end grunt with just a slight depression of the gas pedal. The Dinan tune delta start to increase over the stock ECU at about 2,400 rpms. From that point you start to notice and feel greater acceleration and more toque. The biggest difference in torque from the Dinan tune is a 4,300rpm where you basically have +96ft-lbs more.

Over-all, this is the best tune for the N54. Congratulation and have fun playing with the Vettes on the highways!

[foxtrot]

Originally Posted by joelk

that sounds like a very reasonable theory. re: mpg, if that was the motivation then i really think it was misguided ... who buys a performance tune for increased efficiency?

I dunno, I kinda like that they've figured out how to give you both.

-JDF

[PA135i]

Originally Posted by foxtrot

I dunno, I kinda like that they've figured out how to give you both.

-JDF

I aggree. I have had 2 previous BMW's, both with a Dinan tune and they always seemed to by able to squeeze out another mpg or 2. This was not much of an issue in the past but with gas going toward $4.00 a gallon I'll take the extra 1 mpg.

From what I have read tho on the new tune, I would not be interested until they sort out the low end torque issue. Dinan can probably do both. Maybe not a 2 mpg increase but if it is the same as stock or slightly better than stock I'd go for it. I would be afraid going with any other tuner than Dinan.

[joelk]

thanks coolguy for your post! i might call them myself to express interest.

i should point out that it really isn't that big a deal. as the driver you just have to learn to depress the pedal more than you used to. that's my theory as to why people hated it the first day and after a week or two wouldn't take 2000 for someone to remove it.

anyway i'd like to have the car a little more caffeinated and jumpy down low but i can get used to flooring it if the update doesn't materialize.

[Crowley]

I hope someone with the tune gets some real world dyno numbers as well .. I'd like to see what people are putting down ..

Crowley

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by joelk

thanks coolguy for your post! i might call them myself to express interest.

i should point out that it really isn't that big a deal. as the driver you just have to learn to depress the pedal more than you used to. that's my theory as to why people hated it the first day and after a week or two wouldn't take 2000 for someone to remove it.

anyway i'd like to have the car a little more caffeinated and jumpy down low but i can get used to flooring it if the update doesn't materialize.

I don't think pushing down the accelerator down more is an acceptable alternative. When you're trying to get power from a roll (5 mph) you don't want to have to waste time dropping the accelerator to the floor. I want the boost down low. I'll take it easy if I want good mileage.

I'm with a few others here -- I'm not considering this upgrade (and potentially this car) until this gets sorted out. I await their update.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by joelk

thanks for chiming in. please let us know if you get a response. you might pass on that others have noticed the same issue.



that sounds like a very reasonable theory. re: mpg, if that was the motivation then i really think it was misguided ... who buys a performance tune for increased efficiency?

I had my S4 custom tuned and the gain signal from the gas pedal to the electric throttle is much more sensitive than before. If I go half throttle and attempt to speed up quickly to around 45mph and let off to maintain that speed the engine is very "jerky." The throttle plate opening so far with a small amount of gas pedal input makes it VERY hard to be smooth with the power. It would be a nightmare for autocross, etc.

I believe people are saying their car feels slower with the *same* amount of gas pedal travel as with stock software. I doubt it would take more than a week to get used to pressing the gas pedal more to get more power. You don't always want max boost during part throttle conditions because the fact that you're part throttle means you're not requesting max acceleration.. and higher average boost definitely means lower gas mileage. Of course, the "feel" of a gas pedal is very subjective.. just like brake pedals.

I also believe there's a fine line with software because electric throttles in turbo cars are normally programmed to open slightly more at part throttle than an old style throttle cable would open it, in order to spool the turbos up (to reduce lag).

Ok, I really need to get off my rear and get my current car sold so I can order a 135i with dinan upgrade.:biggrin: