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      11-22-2009, 04:32 PM   #89
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it's over at e90post.
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      11-22-2009, 06:42 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emos325 View Post
it's over at e90post.
Since you seem to have read it, please post the link to the dyno results.
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      11-22-2009, 07:51 PM   #91
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Jetta...thanks for the support...will continue to try to make the best solution possible.
In the need for diversity of solutions or options, some want cheap (hence, the idea of something like K&N or even cheaper), some want outright performance (like the idea of the integrated Velocity stack...but believe that means a higher cost...but again, could be options in the kit).
We can reduce the lid height where the strut bar would be...we needed to keep the lid height high in the front to accomodate the mating to the OEM intake pipes, and also wanted the larger volume of the box in total, but will look to see what clearance we can get.
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      11-22-2009, 09:10 PM   #92
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This is the link to the 500 whp been there done that post. it contains the dyno, remember it was done with their turbo upgrade kit,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=500whp

High light, copy, open a new tab and put it in the address bar.
Hope this help guys!
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      11-23-2009, 06:53 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jettafanatic View Post
Actually... Pressure is inversely related to speed when it comes to tube diameters... Bernoulli, gotta love him... so Jeremy is correct... http://physicsed.buffalostate.edu/Wi.../bernoulli.gif

I had thought of building ( done it before for my race jetta using lexan plastic from baby incubator that had been discarded ) something very similar to what you guys came up with. There is no doubt that a closed system sucking air *efficiently* from outside of the engine compartment is a better solution ( in fact, that's essentially what the OEM airbox is, though the design could have been a lot better as it comes with inherent restrictions including the strange small squarish opening from the air filter compartment to the intake tubes... very small ). And I thnk you guys have done a proper job... It's because of people like you who keep trying to come up with "better" systems that we have a tuning market tiday ( the beauty of living in the US rather than Italy....
I applaud the design thought and effort though would make 2 suggestions:

-I would prefer an air filter with a built-in velocity stack ( i.e. Baker precision) or BmS style ( not sure if your stainless steels have that?).

-For those who already have a charge pipe and a strut bar (Mason) your design will not work... which is unfortunate... maybe a "shallower" box version should be available?

Let me explain;

Firstly, Jeremy mentioned a high speed flow, not an increase in speed of the flow. Thus I think that Bernoulli's principal that you mentioned is really not relevant here. Thanks for mentioning him thou, at least you are thinking from physics perspective.

Secondly, I am not an expert on this system, however my acception was that the system is not open to atmospheric pressure. I accepted the intake creates a constant flow(pressure) at a given speed of the vehicle thus this will cause an increase of pressure when the line gets smaller. Think it like pinching a garden house at one end and you will feel the pressure will built up on the line before the pinch. Now I might be wrong about this acception. If I am, please explain me in a PM so that we don't clutter this post.

Thanks.
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      11-24-2009, 10:24 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emos325 View Post
This is the link to the 500 whp been there done that post. it contains the dyno, remember it was done with their turbo upgrade kit,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=500whp

High light, copy, open a new tab and put it in the address bar.
Hope this help guys!
Nice ASR project though. New Turbo's, methanol, huge IC, Vishnu etc.
But by far it says nothing about that ONLY their CAI will add significant HP, compared to others. So for this topic, those dyno's are useless. I would never give any penny to another CAI - like the ASR - than stock. Ofcourse not.
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      11-24-2009, 12:58 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jettafanatic View Post
Actually... Pressure is inversely related to speed when it comes to tube diameters... Bernoulli, gotta love him... so Jeremy is correct... http://physicsed.buffalostate.edu/Wi.../bernoulli.gif

I had thought of building ( done it before for my race jetta using lexan plastic from baby incubator that had been discarded ) something very similar to what you guys came up with. There is no doubt that a closed system sucking air *efficiently* from outside of the engine compartment is a better solution ( in fact, that's essentially what the OEM airbox is, though the design could have been a lot better as it comes with inherent restrictions including the strange small squarish opening from the air filter compartment to the intake tubes... very small ). And I thnk you guys have done a proper job... It's because of people like you who keep trying to come up with "better" systems that we have a tuning market tiday ( the beauty of living in the US rather than Italy....
I applaud the design thought and effort though would make 2 suggestions:

-I would prefer an air filter with a built-in velocity stack ( i.e. Baker precision) or BmS style ( not sure if your stainless steels have that?).

-For those who already have a charge pipe and a strut bar (Mason) your design will not work... which is unfortunate... maybe a "shallower" box version should be available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
@jeremyc74

"you've got high velocity flow through a small tube there's going to be a pressure drop"

technically... pressure increases in the tube, not decreases(drops).
Since I'm bored at work and have been doing some work that is tied into this topic....

Total Pressue = Static Pressue + Velocity Pressure

Static pressure is the force giving the tube the tendency to either collapse or burst. This would would decrease as the velocity of the fluid increases (Venturi Effect). It is always perdendicular to the walls of the tube.

Velcity Pressure is the forced caused by the velocity and density of the fluid. It is always paralell to the tube. As the velocity of the fluid increases, so does the velocity pressure.
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      11-24-2009, 03:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nifty View Post
Since I'm bored at work and have been doing some work that is tied into this topic....

Total Pressue = Static Pressue + Velocity Pressure

Static pressure is the force giving the tube the tendency to either collapse or burst. This would would decrease as the velocity of the fluid increases (Venturi Effect). It is always perdendicular to the walls of the tube.

Velcity Pressure is the forced caused by the velocity and density of the fluid. It is always paralell to the tube. As the velocity of the fluid increases, so does the velocity pressure.


Lets take this from the top.

The air is at atmospheric pressure. As it passes through the filter and airbox, there is a LOSS or pressure. The air entering the wraparound tubes will be at atmosphere minus whatever is lost due to the restriction of the airbox and filter.

Any time you have flow through a tube you have a LOSS of pressure, becuase it is a restriction. The tube DOES NOT increase the pressure, it increases the restriction. That means the air on the inlet side of the turbo is at atmosphere minus the loss due to the restriction of the entire intake tract.

That isn't even debatable. It's a simple fact. The only questions here are how much loss the tubes present, how much it would cost to replace them with larger tubes, and whether or not it would be worth it.
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      11-25-2009, 07:39 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Lets take this from the top.

The air is at atmospheric pressure. As it passes through the filter and airbox, there is a LOSS or pressure. The air entering the wraparound tubes will be at atmosphere minus whatever is lost due to the restriction of the airbox and filter.

Any time you have flow through a tube you have a LOSS of pressure, becuase it is a restriction. The tube DOES NOT increase the pressure, it increases the restriction. That means the air on the inlet side of the turbo is at atmosphere minus the loss due to the restriction of the entire intake tract.

That isn't even debatable. It's a simple fact. The only questions here are how much loss the tubes present, how much it would cost to replace them with larger tubes, and whether or not it would be worth it.
Sorry if I came across wrong, I agree 100% that there will always be a pressure DROP across a tube. I was just breaking down the components of it as there seemed to be some confusion.
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      11-25-2009, 08:15 AM   #98
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Well as I explained. I agree with jeremy, it is just I simply didn't think intake is at athmospheric pressure.
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      11-25-2009, 08:23 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
Well as I explained. I agree with jeremy, it is just I simply didn't think intake is at athmospheric pressure.

If the velocity coming into the intake scoops is high enough at speed, it could be slightly higher than atmosphere, I guess. Either way, it's lower at the inlet side of the turbo than it is at the beginning of the intake tract.
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      11-25-2009, 11:11 AM   #100
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Get rid of the gold foil, the see through top, and the BOV, reduce the price to <$400 and I'd be interested.
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      11-25-2009, 03:43 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Muffnbluff View Post
Get rid of the gold foil, the see through top, and the BOV, reduce the price to <$400 and I'd be interested.
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      11-25-2009, 09:39 PM   #102
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All I want to see is a dyno showing stock intake vs the closed...
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      11-25-2009, 10:00 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
All I want to see is a dyno showing stock intake vs the closed...
I agree...Ya'll can argue about astrophysics and all that bullshiza but at the end of the day...WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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      11-26-2009, 06:46 AM   #104
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Lmao ,that dyno sheet is a joke. Its very simple strap a car down bone stock and make 3 pulls.Cool car back down while you switch your intake on the car and make 3 pulls.Then you overlap dyno graphs.
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      11-26-2009, 09:52 AM   #105
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^^^ What he said.
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      11-26-2009, 07:13 PM   #106
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I would be interested to better understand the affect on the off-the-line torque.

I tinkered with CAI's on the new gen Mustang, V6 and V8, Mazdaspeed3 and VW Jetta. Without fail, CAI's had a dramatic affect on low end torque. You lost it. There may have been gains at the top end but if there were, when would you ever see it in practical terms.

The voodoo surrounding most CAI's is significant and millions are spent on little or negative gains. To each there own and I am not commenting on what anybody else wants to do.

If there was such a CAI that retained the factory torque curve or did better, then that would be of interest. At least on the Mazda and Jetta, the turbo's spooled up very quick with a CAI. It was just not worth the loss of the off the line grunt to me.
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      11-29-2009, 09:29 PM   #107
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bump?!? any response guys?
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      02-05-2010, 01:17 PM   #108
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ASR how are u doing on teh updates any numbers on dyno??????? its been 2 month almost 3 please reply because this thread is dying.
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      02-05-2010, 02:42 PM   #109
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Wow, $1500 for intake charge pipe and bov? What a bargain where do I sign up? In all seriousness unless this thing blows the competition out of the water and produces some major gains I really don't see how you can justify that price tag.

(Patiently waiting for results)
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      02-05-2010, 04:17 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster135 View Post
Wow, $1500 for intake charge pipe and bov? What a bargain where do I sign up? In all seriousness unless this thing blows the competition out of the water and produces some major gains I really don't see how you can justify that price tag.

(Patiently waiting for results)
I hate to say it, but if this thing were making big power, the dyno sheets would be up by now. On a large monitor that plexi glass looks a little home made to me. Not nice enough for my 2010 1 series. Hopefully the production piece looks the part.
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