My experience with Stock and aftermarket Wheels and Wheel Spacers

[nachob]

I wanted to document what my experience with wheel spacers in case anyone out there is curious.

Stock Wheels and Tires
My first 1M which I owned from 2011 to 2013 never used spacers but I did buy a set of 18x9 ET31 and 18x10 ET25 wheels. I didn't notice much difference between both sets in respect to steering weight and feedback. The 19s with lower profile were quicker to turn in and the 18s were slightly softer on turn in but steering weight was the same. I ran SuperSports on both wheels with the same 245/265 width. While the 18s were slightly softer on turn in, the car seemed a little more more forgiving on rough roads and I actually liked the 18s more overall on crappy SoCal roads.

Stock Wheels and Tires with 5mm Spacers
Then in 2015 I picked up my 2nd 1M with only 9K miles, stock wheels with Michelin SS in stock sizes. When I first drove it, the steering feel felt ever so slightly more numb than I remembered on my previous 1M but I attributed to driving my ZHP for 2 years before. The ZHP steering feedback is very sharp. I got used to the steering feel right away and was perfectly happy with it. I drove 3500 miles home and quickly fell in love again. When I got home, I decided to take the wheels off for a good cleaning, I discovered 5mm spacers all around. I had developed a slight shimmy which later found to be bad rotors but I decided to take them off to troubleshoot. While the 5mm spacers with stock wheels looked amazing, I found that the steering felt slightly more "alive" Nothing earth shattering, just the steering felt slightly more eager to turn. I ended up taking them off for good and going back to stock.

BBS 8.5" Wide Front Wheels with No/5mm/10mm Spacers
Then I recently bought bought BBS wheels that were 8 1/2" wide in front. Stock is 19x9 ET 31. The first set I bought were 19x8.5" ET30. I put those on the front and only drove 4 miles home because I realized after mounting that I ordered the wrong front wheels after having them mounted. In that short drive home, they really felt not much different than stock. The E90 M3 offered a 19x8.5" ET 28 front wheel, so I figured these were basically the same. Then I ordered the BBS wheels that matched my big lipped rears. Those were 19x8.5 ET 32. Tire rack and BBS recommend at 10mm spacer for 1Ms so the final offset is ET22. Since the new wheel is narrower, pushing it out makes it look very nice. It fills the wheel gap better. Now here is where the fun begins. Instantly, I noticed the steering feel felt less "lively" and slightly disconnected. I got used to it but felt like I was losing something. I don't drive my car hard but I did notice a bigger drop in feel when I jumped from ZHP back to 1M with the10mm spacers. As I got more used to the new feel, I finally pushed the car a little more on a nice sweeper near my house that I regularly take with my ZHP and 1M. I was surprised that it took more muscle to hold the line at speed.

Now I have heard some guys say that their car feels more planted with with spacers and I don't know for sure. I believe in science and objective testing, but I wonder if this extra muscle to hold the line can be accidentally attributed as more "planted" or more "grip." Since I take this turn often, I realized that despite more steering effort, I was going a little slower than normal, though it felt like I was really working hard. It gave the impression of more grip but it was really more steering effort in my case.

So I decided to experiment and I ordered 5mm BBS Spacers. This would give me a 19x8.5 ET27 which is only 1mm from the stock E90 M3 offsets. Both 18 and 19 inch 8.5" E90 M3 offerings ran a 28mm offset. I have put those on and steering is livelier again and feels basically normal. There is a little more gap but I enjoy the driving feel more so I am staying with 5mm spacers (basically stock factory offset on 8.5" wheel).

Now a 5mm or 10mm offset change probably has a bigger impact on a narrower rim since you have a narrower contact patch. I have seen several say they can't feel any difference with 10mm spacers on stock wheels. Maybe a slightly wider contact patch makes the offset change less noticeable but I just wanted to share my impressions for those of you that are considering aftermarket wheels that might be narrower and have to select a spacer.

All of these impressions are strictly based on the Nacho-butt-o-meter-2017. I wish someone would've shared some of this with me before buying wheels and spacers so that is why I'm posting my impressions.

Wheel Bolts
Our cars use M12x1.5 mm bolts. BBS spacers are machined to be hub-centric on BBS wheels. They fit into the center bore perfectly but they only offer silver wheel bolts. By silver, I mean shiny silver. I tested the BBS wheel bolts in stock, +5mm and +10mm lengths and they all gave me at ~7-8 turns of thread bite which is recommended for our cars. I did not like the shiny silver bolts so I started looking for black bolts to replace them. Turner offers a good selection but their black bolts have an ugly finish on their site pictures. I wanted a strong 10.9 strength bolt that had a nice looking black finish to go with my wheels. So I decided I wanted to see them in person before buying. I found that European Auto Source was only a couple hours north of me and they sold Macht Schnell wheel bolts in black in stock/+5mm and +10mm sizes.

I drove up there and walked in. . There was a guy in front that looked like he worked there but he was chatting with some guy for about 10 minutes and basically ignored me. I only mention this because I saw a few reviews about bad service. So I just made my way to the back sales area. Once I asked the guy working the phones, his name was Brandon, he was awesome and pulled out the bolts for me! The sales guys in the back were very cool. They were only $2.50 each whereas Turner bolts are a lot more, 10.9 strength and the finish was very nice. Since I now had 5 and 10mm spacers, I bought two sets. Brandon carefully bagged them and marked them +5 length and +10 length. I ran home and tried them on the wheels and sadly I found that they were in fact 5mm and 10mm longer than stock but I was only getting 5 turns of bite out of both sets. That means I could potentially strip my treads. I contacted Brandon and again the guy was awesome. He offered to take the bolts back but I just wanted a set that was +8 for the 5mm spacer and a +12 for the 10mm spacer to give me the 7 turns of thread bite.

He only had a set of +14mm bolts which he shipped 2 day for free to me. Again, great service.

So now what I did is test the +10mm bolts with a 5mm spacer on front and back and there were no clearance issues!
I also tested the +14mm bolts with a 10mm spacer in the front. Also no clearance issues.

So I recommend that if you buy Macht Schnell spacers that you count the thread bite. You should have at least 6.5 turns to give you 10mm of bite. You could run a 5mm spacer with their +10 wheel bolt with no issues and a 10mm spacer with their +14 wheel bolt no problems.

For reference EAS lists the bolts for the 5mm spacer bolts as 30mm shank length since stock is 25mm; and,
the 10mm spacer bolts as 35mm shank length. I'm sure they would have no issue swapping the bolts for the 5mm spacer and giving you the 35 mm and the 39mm for the 10mm spacer since they stock Macht Schnell bolts in stock.

Now a final thought on wheel bolts. It is possible that maybe my BBS wheel bolt seat might take up the extra 1 or 2 mm which is why the Macht Schnell bolts were slightly short in my case, but the important lesson is don't take if for granted. If you change wheel bolts, count the turns!

thank you.

[digwm1]

love it, awesome write up, fun read and cool little share, those bbs looks great on your vo

[CarJunkie]

This was awesome, thanks.

I am considering getting a set of 18x10 et25 wheels for a square autocross setup. HP Auto website states that spacers and fender modifications *may* be required for 1M front fitment. Does anyone have experience with these square setups? I would probably try to run 275/35/18 all around if its possible to get away with that. I am thinking a spacer may be needed for the tire to clear the spring perch.

[ayao]

I run 275/35/18 square on 18x10et25 ARC-8s with -2.5 camber up front with no spring perch issue (Ohlins). No spacers.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by ayao

I run 275/35/18 square on 18x10et25 ARC-8s with -2.5 camber up front with no spring perch issue (Ohlins). No spacers.

Perfect. Do you rub on the fender liner at all?

What tires have you used?

[blackmist222777]

Awesome write uP! thanks for doing this... its pretty helpful

[ayao]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

Perfect. Do you rub on the fender liner at all?

What tires have you used?

The only tires I've run on this setup (both on 18x10 ARC8s and 18x9.5et23 square 219Ms) are Nitto NT01s. I have the revised liners and can see visible light scuffing from what I assume is rubbing, although I can't say I've ever really felt it.

Edit: at full lock there's no overt contact although the space is tight. I suspect the light liner scuffing is from suspension deflection while the wheel is turned.

[M3 Adjuster]

Who would argue with a 2017 Nacho-butt-o-meter?




Its important to use hub centric spacers on a BMW. BBS spacers definitely are.

I agree with you in terms of feel, spacers definitely for me generally provide slightly less turn in feedback and in some instances can require more effort, although typically when adding spacers to add wider wheels, there can be additional unsprung weight being added in the new wheel and tire setup, or even if going with lightweight wheels, a change in width can change the overall track.

I've definitely found that both the E30 M3 and 1M feel best with wheels that bolt straight up without spacers.

My car is stock except for camber plates and I have two sets of arc8 18X10 and have run 275/35/18 "R " tires of all makes Hoosier... continental.. Maxxis, etc

.... my favorite tire for the 1M.. the BFG R-1 fits in beefy 285/30/18. All four corners ....

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

.... my favorite tire for the 1M.. the BFG R-1 fits in beefy 285/30/18. All four corners ....

I have considered the R1, as a compromise for track and autocross . . . That size is tempting, more rubber at all 4 corners? Who can complain?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I have considered the R1, as a compromise for track and autocross . . . That size is tempting, more rubber at all 4 corners? Who can complain?

That's exactly what I have used it for. I have a friend that races and had plenty of take offs that he could sell me. I Autocross at some locations that are very large lots with high speed courses. We also get 10 runs per event.

A dedicated Autocross tire is quicker but the BFG R1 can do well enough to place , and of course it's truly in its element on the track whereas even the top Autocross tire will suffer the last half of an HPDE session.

I actually have a set of wheels for track and a set for Autocross and ended up putting takeoff BFGs on all 8 wheels. After coming up with a very close second the last couple of years , I was going to commit to dedicated Autocross tires again this year in an all-out bid for first place but work has gotten in the way this year.

I've also discovered from a friend this year that it takes him TWO sets of RE-71R to make it through a ten autocross event and 3 HPDE event season. ouch. ! I can do them all with one set of R1. That includes flipping both sets of the RE-71Rs on the rim halfway through their life to maximize wear.

[CarJunkie]

I don't know if you are a salesman, but I am sold.

I considered the A7, but they are probably only significantly better for the first half of their life, require much more attention to heat management, and would die at the track. I don't want to go from 1 set of wheels/tires to 3!

[ayao]

HMMMMMM ... (googles R1 prices...)

Do you drive to events on them as well?

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by ayao

HMMMMMM ... (googles R1 prices...)

Do you drive to events on them as well?

FWIW, R1 has been my "regular" track day tire for 4-5 years.

I don't drive them on the street.

Neil

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I don't know if you are a salesman, but I am sold.

I considered the A7, but they are probably only significantly better for the first half of their life, require much more attention to heat management, and would die at the track. I don't want to go from 1 set of wheels/tires to 3!

Ha!

I actually do have experience in sales, but that is certainly not what I was doing. No affiliation, no perks or bonuses, just relaying knowledge

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ayao

HMMMMMM ... (googles R1 prices...)

Do you drive to events on them as well?

I have only used the R1-R... I haven't tried the R1-S ... and no I don't drive on the street with them normally.

Oddly, I currently have a set of Maxxis RC-1 R tires .. I can't kill them .. and I have resorted to driving them on the street ... I even drove on them once from Austin to Dallas ! Last year I even drove on them 60 Miles each way to an Autocross a few times.

Like any R tire... it's not wise to drive them on the street due to a potential flat or due to potential hydroplaning. I'm in the hot south, so the rain isn't often a concern.

Both the Maxxis RC-1 and the BFG R1 heat cycle out before they actually wear to the end of the tread. They are both ridiculously consistent as well.

[ayao]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is are they "safe" to drive on the street in the dry to/from the track, rather than hauling the track wheels and swapping at the track.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ayao

I guess what I'm trying to ask is are they "safe" to drive on the street in the dry to/from the track, rather than hauling the track wheels and swapping at the track.

Yes, especially when new at full tread.. however .. I wouldn't typically do this because it puts another heat cycle on them. I am fortunate to have two tracks in my area but they are both about right at 50 miles away.

If you are 15-20 minutes from a track.. sure.
Or.. if you are at a weekend event and wanted to drive to the hotel from the track ..

Driving 30 miles or more .. sure it could be done.. but that would then be a full heat cycle and would be one less heat cycle available to you on track... I think one can get about 40-50 heat cycles out of a set ..so.. decide on where you want to spend your heat cycles..

[mattm]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

I considered the A7, but they are probably only significantly better for the first half of their life, require much more attention to heat management, and would die at the track. I don't want to go from 1 set of wheels/tires to 3!

How about Hoosier R7s?

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by mattm

How about Hoosier R7s?

I will use them for autocross also. R7's may not heat up enough.

[Fyregodd]

Cant complain with results such as that!