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      10-08-2018, 06:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
Gone are the days when a base 3-series was a great entry level compact sedan for a working enthusiast. The 3-series has become a shell of what it was; just like BMW...

The modern slushboxes may be technically good but they are severely boring. Even more boring than the less capable slushboxes of the old days. Now they actually think they are sporting (they usually aren't).
But that is the same with every new modern car now.

I remember growing up in the 80s where Ferrari's and Lambos were known for their open gated shift. How BMWs were known to have the smoothest inline NA 6 cylinders ever, how 911s were only a few models (S, 4 and Turbo) and glorious flat air cooled engines.

If i had €100,000 to spend on a brand new car today, hand on my heart i would not buy anything, i wonder of the GT350 is still in production? ironically that would most likely be my choice for a sports car. But i would look at older cars for 4 door sedans/family cars honestly.

People like you and me make up a tiny portion of the market, so small that all bands now can ignore us completely and still make a profit and use Nordschleife lap times and fast shifting transmissions and tech filled safety as marketing.

Only if sales dropped by at least 30% in all markets and demand for "basic and simple" comes back, we will never see any changes and by the direction how things are going things will never change.

I personally owned a E36 328is and a E90 325i and reached 300,000+kms on both as a single owner and i miss them both like hell, we just need to either make such choices and live with the pros and cons or just accept the fact that brands now are just at war with each other regarding tech and lap times and try to eliminate the whole point of driving (IMO).
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      10-08-2018, 01:17 PM   #24
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Attachment 1913156

1M from the sales listing on ebay before I bought it.

Attachment 1913155

Z3M Coupe on its way back from Oregon where I bought it.

3rd one is a 2018 Metallic Gray M2; don't have any pics with me, however nothing special about how it looks compared to any other one, it's entirely stock.
Nice!!
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      10-09-2018, 06:45 PM   #25
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I just picked up an e30 325e to use for teaching my boys (oldest is about to turn 15) to drive stick. It would be a shame if it turned out to be a wasted effort in the end.
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      10-09-2018, 07:43 PM   #26
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This came on Jalopnik today.

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-is-tired-of...hit-1829635007

Full Disclosure: I think the E46 3 Series was tops too! Just sharing the link.

Last edited by nachob; 10-09-2018 at 07:51 PM.
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      10-09-2018, 08:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by nachob View Post
This came on Jalopnik today.

https://jalopnik.com/bmw-is-tired-of...hit-1829635007

Full Disclosure: I think the E46 3 Series was tops too! Just sharing the link.
That's hilarious 🤣

Bmw does a lot of things right!

I believe, and we are a small bunch, the purists/enthusiasts just want something simple and direct. A true drivers car.

I believe we have that in our modern classic 1M
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      10-09-2018, 08:48 PM   #28
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I just picked up an e30 325e to use for teaching my boys (oldest is about to turn 15) to drive stick. It would be a shame if it turned out to be a wasted effort in the end.
That's great!

I made a point of it to teach my kids how to drive a manual! One more to go....well, in a couple of years anyway!

Safer in my opinion as well.....no room for mobile phones when your busy shifting ect.
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      11-06-2018, 07:54 PM   #29
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I think it is over for this once proud brand, and I have my doubts that any other manufacturer is going to step up to the plate.

The only activity in the "driver's car" space these days is with the hot hatches, almost all of which are designed for young males who haven't outgrown their pimples. The only exception is the Golf R, which suffers from a bit of numbness, itself, including its unremarkable EPS. Or I guess you could buy a Miata, but that's anything but practical.

I will be really really surprised if I ever buy another new BMW; my 2018 M2 is probably the last one, ever. Then I will just go for comfort, reliability and function, which more or less excludes the BMW brand if one considers value for money, and especially reliability and cost of ownership after the warranty wears out. I'm glad I have a stable of older real BMWs, and hopefully some will survive long enough to accompany me into my own senescence.
I agree with your take on this segment, but the buyer pool is oddly much different than you might think.

I bought a Focus RS. A 2017 that was on the lot at a deep discount. Inquiring about the car, they (dealers) had mainly sold to older guys who love manuals. I notice the same thing with Miatas....people that are looking for a throwback, I see them everywhere generally with an older driver.

After joining some RS forums online, there are a lot of guys that are older than my Dad (68) that love the car and are all about it. Pretty cool really!! Pictures of guys 70+ with their hot hatch.

Obviously, there is a younger segment attached to those cars, but I think you would be surprised how much the M2 and Focus RS buyer pool resemble themselves. In fact, there are a lot of "car guys" that own multiple 911's and daily drive a hot hatch.
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      11-27-2018, 11:56 AM   #30
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agree with above post, cars and drivers have changed, 2 replaces the 3, and 3 replaces the 5, the bigger and more expensive cars is focus towards middle income and older class that are tired of shifting gears. For the few older gents that like to drive, they prefer smaller cars with 5/6sp mt that they could throw around corners anyway. Thats why the
2 series which continue to be avail with both transmission, and replaces the 3 series as a go to car for enthusiast that wants to row their own gear. Some hardcore do want the M cars with dct for track purposes, but are very far and few in between.
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      11-29-2018, 11:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRSTM View Post
agree with above post, cars and drivers have changed, 2 replaces the 3, and 3 replaces the 5, the bigger and more expensive cars is focus towards middle income and older class that are tired of shifting gears. For the few older gents that like to drive, they prefer smaller cars with 5/6sp mt that they could throw around corners anyway. Thats why the
2 series which continue to be avail with both transmission, and replaces the 3 series as a go to car for enthusiast that wants to row their own gear. Some hardcore do want the M cars with dct for track purposes, but are very far and few in between.
Bingo. The 2 really exists as the old 3. The bigger tragedy to me is enthusiast oriented sports cars, like the Alfa 4C and Alpine A110, coming without manuals. As much as Iím disappointed in the sound of the flat-4, Iíd pick a Cayman all day in that segment because of the manual. Heck, Iíd choose a manual Miata over those manual-less cars. Iíve read that 4C sales have struggled, and I canít help but think no manual is part of the problem.
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      11-29-2018, 11:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRSTM View Post
agree with above post, cars and drivers have changed, 2 replaces the 3, and 3 replaces the 5, the bigger and more expensive cars is focus towards middle income and older class that are tired of shifting gears. For the few older gents that like to drive, they prefer smaller cars with 5/6sp mt that they could throw around corners anyway. Thats why the
2 series which continue to be avail with both transmission, and replaces the 3 series as a go to car for enthusiast that wants to row their own gear. Some hardcore do want the M cars with dct for track purposes, but are very far and few in between.
Bingo. The 2 really exists as the old 3. The bigger tragedy to me is enthusiast oriented sports cars, like the Alfa 4C and Alpine A110, coming without manuals. As much as I'm disappointed in the sound of the flat-4, I'd pick a Cayman all day in that segment because of the manual. Heck, I'd choose a manual Miata over those manual-less cars. I've read that 4C sales have struggled, and I can't help but think no manual is part of the problem.
Ditto I drove an Audi S3 cool car nice sound great size. The version with analog gauges was nice. Loved it except just missing something in the automatic. I think if it had been manual I would've gotten one. : (. Now 3 series out of consideration for me. That was the last differentiator between bmw and the other brands. Now they are officially just like all the others in the sedan category. A race to the bottom and they caught up to the others.
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      12-01-2018, 10:04 AM   #33
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Well looks like BMW has confirmed that the next M3/4 will have a Manual option

However, they also said it maybe the last generation of manuals

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/11/30/b...r-upcoming-m4/
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