Increasing Induction Noise...

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Nad128

I'll be following this closely.

If you get the S54 ITB working on the N52, you'll make a lot of people happy. Me first. Lol

I've started entertaining this idea a few weeks back but I feel it's way out of my capacity to tackle such a project. I have no 3D skills, no access to machining tools, etc...

I've been following the other thread over at e90post where someone is working on this too (Hass?)

Yeah, he's been working on an N52 swap for his E30, but a 3-stage or other stock manifold is too big for that car's engine bay, hence the ITB's and velocity stacks. He's pretty much given me how I'm going to go about doing this (he's an apparent guru of electronics and coding), I'm just the guinea pig who's going to model everything and have some fun putting it all together.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

That's the whole point. It's an ongoing project. I'm trying new things, finding out how they work, and then changing things around to eventually find what is juuust right for me.

Maybe 3D printing won't work in the long run, but that's the point of 3D printing; rapid, inexpensive prototyping for a final product. At the very least, it'll be perfect for determining fitment.

Maybe SketchUp isn't the absolute best thing to use, but it's what I'm comfortable with, it's what I have, and it works well for me.

The point of this is to get a more enjoyable sound out of this car, and I just don't want a super shouty exhaust to achieve that. The point of this is not power, it would be a great side benefit, but it is certainly not the focus of this.

Why do I need an intervention for wanting to make my car perfect for my needs and wants? You are the one that needs an intervention, for feeling the need to criticize a unique project (it doesn't matter if it's mine), that someone finds joy in. At least I'm not like a majority of the other lumps my age (17) that would spend all this time I've spent, with their noses stuck in someone else's business, diving head-first into the useless, tasteless world of Snapchat. Feel free to question my methods, my tools, but don't question why I'm doing it, it doesn't matter, I'm doing something.

EDIT: To add on; this is an overall problem with car culture today (and everything, really), everything is factionized and divided, everyone hates what everyone else does, especially if it's different. ThatDudeInBlue is a huge supporter of unique (strange, perhaps) projects, and I think it's awesome how those owners take something uninteresting, and turn it into a spectacular project that they enjoy (look at the Saturn SL2 he recently reviewed). I don't mean to call you the problem, I'm simply calling out the problem.

That's all well and good. I just think you're going about some things in a strange manner. I'm not sure you know the work involved to make these parts anyway. A one off CNC adapter is going to be thousands of dollars. 3D printing can be used for basic fitting but not much beyond it. You're going to learn a LOT which is great but try to look ahead a little more.

If you only take one thing from anything I'll tell you, please switch to Fusion 360. It's similar to the other major CAD programs (Solidworks, Inventor, PTC Creo) in how it works (sketches with extrusions, cuts, sweeps, etc) so it's a useful program to learn career wise. You can make pretty good drawings and even do some basic FEA on the parts you design.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by WDE82

That's all well and good. I just think you're going about some things in a strange manner. I'm not sure you know the work involved to make these parts anyway. A one off CNC adapter is going to be thousands of dollars. 3D printing can be used for basic fitting but not much beyond it. You're going to learn a LOT which is great but try to look ahead a little more.

If you only take one thing from anything I'll tell you, please switch to Fusion 360. It's similar to the other major CAD programs (Solidworks, Inventor, PTC Creo) in how it works (sketches with extrusions, cuts, sweeps, etc) so it's a useful program to learn career wise. You can make pretty good drawings and even do some basic FEA on the parts you design.

Thanks! I really appreciate that! I'll look into learning a new program, and really think more about what material I'll use in the end.

I'm sorry if I came off super defensive, it's just a frustration I have with our otherwise awesome community of car-loving people.

[Gangplank]

If you can draw it a machine shop can probably make you one for a few hundred. You'd be surprised if you find the right shop & someone who is into cars.

[Nad128]

Just found another guy who did this: https://www.locostusa.com/forums/vie...3&start=30

$400 for 3 units of the adapter in CNC'd aluminum. I'll try to get in touch with him, see if he has a spare.

You could even ask for his model if it can help or save some time.

If you do get your own parts machined, let me know, I might join in on the fun

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Nad128

Just found another guy who did this: https://www.locostusa.com/forums/vie...18543&start=30

$400 for 3 units of the adapter in CNC'd aluminum. I'll try to get in touch with him, see if he has a spare.

You could even ask for his model if it can help or save some time.

If you do get your own parts machined, let me know, I might join in on the fun

That is an awesome thread! I've never seen a dry sump conversion with an N52 before...

[chris_flies]

I'm currently looking at Carbon-Fiber Reinforced Nylon to print with. Improved thermal properties (versus standard nylon), good chemical resistance, and stiffer than most other plastic-based materials (good for bolting parts on to). 3dhubs looks like a great way to have it printed; send in a file > get a quote > get it printed by someone with a printer large enough.

Now I just need some S54 throttles to measure...

[Matticus91]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

I'm currently looking at Carbon-Fiber Reinforced Nylon to print with. Improved thermal properties (versus standard nylon), good chemical resistance, and stiffer than most other plastic-based materials (good for bolting parts on to). 3dhubs looks like a great way to have it printed; send in a file > get a quote > get it printed by someone with a printer large enough.

Now I just need some S54 throttles to measure...

Loving this idea and the potential of it. You should look into a local makerspace and see if you can get some cheapo first prints out to test fitment before you drop dimes on anything you'd actually attempt "using". There's a handful in our area.

As for machining a unit in the long run, I have leads on a few local shops that will do it for you and might even consider a prod run if the product is good enough and a deal can be made. If you're dev'ing you're own components from scratch and there's no patents to compete, could be a sale item.

Lastly for the velocity stacks consider also getting those spun yourself, shape and form matters especially when you're looking at tight tolerances under the hood. Don't want them pointed too flat, should be upwards if possible. I also see an aftermarket hood in your future to pipe in some nice cool air to the top of the bay

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Matticus91

Loving this idea and the potential of it. You should look into a local makerspace and see if you can get some cheapo first prints out to test fitment before you drop dimes on anything you'd actually attempt "using". There's a handful in our area.

As for machining a unit in the long run, I have leads on a few local shops that will do it for you and might even consider a prod run if the product is good enough and a deal can be made. If you're dev'ing you're own components from scratch and there's no patents to compete, could be a sale item.

Lastly for the velocity stacks consider also getting those spun yourself, shape and form matters especially when you're looking at tight tolerances under the hood. Don't want them pointed too flat, should be upwards if possible. I also see an aftermarket hood in your future to pipe in some nice cool air to the top of the bay

I'll check it out, it would be nice for testing fitment. My biggest concern is the bolt holes lining-up correctly right now, so I'll probably just print the faces at full size (on two sheets of paper, obviously) and trace it to a piece of cardboard and see how it fits-up to the cylinder head and the S54 ITB's. I can't find hardly any info on fitting velocity stacks to N52's, so I seriously doubt that patents will be a factor (for a sale part , that will have to be confirmed). A Seibon GT4-style hood would be amazing...

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Thanks! I really appreciate that! I'll look into learning a new program, and really think more about what material I'll use in the end.

I'm sorry if I came off super defensive, it's just a frustration I have with our otherwise awesome community of car-loving people.

Nah I get it. Nothing wrong with defending your ideas or desires.

[Blu3RSX]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Here's my setup as mentioned in the post above. A/C still blows cold (was a very minor concern) but the air smells a little like engine bay for a second or two after start-up.

I accept all your "hot air intake" jokes and concerns. But, I've tested the IATs, and, when you're moving faster than 25mph, they are no more than 2-3 degrees higher than the stock system. I do still want to rig up a heat shield, and grab some ducted air from the front of the car or do those silly scoops to feed some more fresh air to the filter. Plus, the noise is fantastic (clip coming soon) and then goes totally animalistic in the higher ranges of the motor.

One similar thing I did with my Accord was to rotate the oem air filter housing after removing the bottom section of it.

Before:


After:


The real performance gains came from when I added an opening for fresh air to come in through the hood with a custom scoop that I designed and 3D printed. The scoop was located such that it wasn't right above the air filter housing so water wouldn't get on it when the car wasn't moving. You can see that it was just above the battery:



I also added vents in the hood behind the air filter to allow heat to escape:



I didn't have any issues with water getting in the filter while driving in the rain either so it really offered the best of a short-ram intake and cold air intake by providing the least air resistance and no heat soak issues or hydro-locking worries.

I'm planning on doing something similar with my 135 but since we literally just got it, my wife has given me strict instructions NOT to do anything to compromise the exterior appearance. #TeamHappyWife lol

She didn't mind so much I guess since it was an Accord but now that we're in a BMW

Just throwing this out there for ideas because this was significantly more cost effective than buying a $400 intake with equal or greater performance benefits.

[Gangplank]

On the 135i a cold air intake = hotter air intake & makes no added power. It's just for looks & sound. If you search around you'll find dyno runs showing it makes no performance gains over stock. You are likely better just drilling a few holes in the pre-filter side of the air box to let more air in.

[xQx]

Another way of looking at it is a second hand Dual Cone Intake costs almost nothing, and has been proven to not decrease performance.

If you're after noise, loose the airbox and put in cones.

Also, remove the cowls. I ended up putting them back in because I didn't like the constant 'tickity tickity tick' of n54 injectors/valves.

[chris_flies]

Updates:

Modeled an adapter for the S54 throttles. Sent file to 3DHubs for an estimate on printing...$460...

That was not what I expected lol.

So, long story short, this project is on-hold, sorta. That is, at least in it's current stage of imagination and being an idea. I have been speaking with E30ROB who's really excited about the project, and seems like he'll continue moving forward with it. Doing this with the S54 throttles is looking a little unreasonable to me (but still very cool), because, for the money, there are better performance/handling gains to be had.

Still, it's far from dead. BPC, at one point, cut-up a stock 328i intake manifold, essentially using the trumpets already in the manifold, and made a whopping 280whp, with nothing but headers, that intake, and an 8200rpm redline (that is not going to happen in my car lol). (https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=9) That is an awesome, awesome number, especially for the $50 cost of a standard N52 manifold, and probably some tuning. It'll take some brainstorming to figure out how to get it to work well for a street car, but it is an interesting proposition, and a much more realistic one for me. The real question is if Valvetronic's failure position can be changed to idle instead of WOT, because without throttle bodies, a failure to WOT would be...exciting. At that point, it's easy to carry the four or five tools necessary to change a Valvetronic motor with me in the car.

BPC dyno vid:

[Nad128]

Doh!

I'm sad to hear that.

Did you look into having the adapter machined instead of 3D printed?

You can get an instant quote in eMachineShop's software.

Price goes down a lot as soon as you increase the quantity from 1 to a few pieces.

I'm sure there are a few of us who'd join in. Me first 🙋🏻

[chris82]

Perhaps try the euro spec airbox which is much easier to do modifications on. Just in stock form it adds some really nice noise when you get on the throttle. You'd also be able to put spacers between the box and the lid, without having to remove the entire intake making it easier to vary the height of the spacer to get the exact volume you want. Just my .02 cents. I got mine shipped from the UK for about $175 and it took all of 23 hours to get to my doorstep. I may try the spacers over the weekend. I love the sound I'm getting with my silicone intake hose and euro airbox, but I think I want just a tad bit more

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by Nad128

Doh!

I'm sad to hear that.

Did you look into having the adapter machined instead of 3D printed?

You can get an instant quote in eMachineShop's software.

Price goes down a lot as soon as you increase the quantity from 1 to a few pieces.

I'm sure there are a few of us who'd join in. Me first ����

Every hobbyist serious underestimates how much it costs to get some thing made. The only way for one offs to be remotely cost effective is if you know someone who will do it partly for the fun of it at a home shop or a SMALL job shop with an unoccupied 3 axis CNC. Machining is a HIGH SKILL trade. Even "simple" parts require a lot of skill to do. If a part requires CNC, you're going to pay a pretty penny for the programming alone as a fixed cost. Then you pay for every new setup the part requires for the features.

3D printing doesn't require much skill at all, but requires pretty significant investment for the high grade prints/materials. It's also misleading to prototype with in the wrong hands. The $460 quote doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

I can offer my services to anyone who's looking for design optimizations for manufacturing. Lots of beginners screw themselves with features they don't realize multiply the costs many times over and they're often easily designed out.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

Does anyone have any ideas on increasing induction noise on our cars

Bit of a thread bump, but just ordered the 130i Sound Generator, P/N 13717559121 and mounting grommet 13711702508. I expect it to be good combined with the PI and PE, but not overwelming. Will report back.

[chris_flies]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

Bit of a thread bump, but just ordered the 130i Sound Generator, P/N 13717559121 and mounting grommet 13711702508. I expect it to be good combined with the PI and PE, but not overwelming. Will report back.

I've wanted to do that retrofit with the Z4 generator. I didn't know the 130i had the same sound generator as the Z4, good to know...

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by chris_flies

I've wanted to do that retrofit with the Z4 generator. I didn't know the 130i had the same sound generator as the Z4, good to know...

The biggest difference between the two is that the 130i ducts up to and is aimed at the firewall, while the Z4 goes through a hole through the firewall. The 130i generator is a 10 minute retrofit. The actual drum portion of the generators looks the same, but I've no idea what different tuning has been done to them.

[markslc1]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

Bit of a thread bump, but just ordered the 130i Sound Generator, P/N 13717559121 and mounting grommet 13711702508. I expect it to be good combined with the PI and PE, but not overwelming. Will report back.

Do you happen to have the diagram showing where’d these fit into the intake tract?! I have a solid elbow and modified stock air box right now.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by markslc1

Do you happen to have the diagram showing where’d these fit into the intake tract?! I have a solid elbow and modified stock air box right now.

Replaces the solid elbow.(not my pic) Red line points to the generator.