135i track viability in the future

[lforter]

So, I have acquired an 135i for DD and I love it. bought this car thinking I love "nimble" cars and I have already own and repaired some BMWs (I like to wrench as a hobbie), so I wanted another bmw and new ones were too big for my personal taste so I opted for an e82 since I like the design, now I realize I need to get some seat time and practice my drivin skills by a lot so investing in track mods is off the table for a long time (5-6 years or even more), meanwhile I improve.

With that being said I plan on sticking with this car as my "toy" car for a long time, so I was wondering how good and competitive can the e82 platform become as track toys in the future?, in the sense that it becomes more cost-effective to track it and fast builds may be discovered (?), when more people get their hands on one (since their price should drop).

I have already made some investigations before doing this thread, I do comprehend the stock form was created for street use, so some mods are needed indeed to get it track worthy, but I have seen mixed results around here regarding the chasis.

the 128i has more positive results, I have seen some amazing builds here and amazing results too (props to the community, I have seen some very good drivers around here).

The 135i on the other hand, I have read a lot of complaints, meanwhile some put nice times, now this can be atributed to $$$, but also, as more people try to track this, people discover new things from time time.

Naturally the question arises, can the e82 become a more viable option as a track/autocross car in the future? or have the community already reached its peak? should I change to an 128i? should I change to another bmw with tracking in the future in mind?

[tsk94]

It's honestly impossible to say if the E82 will become more or less viable in the future. It still represents a very small % of BMWs that are being tracked.

Having tracked both a 128 and a 135, I largely prefer the 128. Mainly for the lighter weight and NA power delivery. The trade-off is obviously less power, but they are quite a bit lighter then a 135. I put both on scales and the 128 was 300lbs lighter for a very similarly optioned cars. The 1 series in general is a great size and still a chassis that communicates with you unlike the newer BMW's. I also prefer the 128 for the simplicity and lack issues associated with tracking a N54 or N55. I did track a 135 for 1.5 years and did enjoy it, they are still great cars and with enough mods the overheating issues can be solved and be fairly reliable.

The nice thing with the 1 series is they share almost all suspension components, arms and bushings with the 3 series and for the most part the M3 as well. So there will always be track parts available for the chassis as a result.

Should you stick with an E82, well that's up to you. If you like the 1 series then definitely do so, just choose which you'd prefer; lighter with less power and more simplicity (128) or the same chassis with a lot more power potential at a slight weight penalty (135). With the way prices of E46 and E9X M3's are going, I don't see any other good track options for BMW's right now. You could probably get a used E36 track car for decently cheap, but a 128 is literally a modern E36 M3 with better aero and suspension geometry and able to make the same power an track ready S52.

[bbnks2]

^ good info here. I'd echo that and also add... what do you plan to do with the car? time trials? HPDE? open wheel club racing? Autocross? This is the real question when beginning this journey... and 99% of people including myself don't think about it and just want to go fast and mod cars...

Try to have an idea of what you're building the car for and you will get massively better results. Don't throw 30k into a 135i just to realize you have absolutely nowhere to drive it except unlimited classes in TT. If you want to persue club racing then build a spec e46 or e36. Spec e46 is just starting up... i'd guess it would be another 5 years before anyone thinks about a "spec e82" class and you start seenf fields of 128i out on track. Reality is that may never even happen because 128i are nowhere near as common as other cars. Maybe a spec E90/E92 328i class might come.

1-series is a great car. 135i has absolutely more potential than a 128i. power to weight is better. People complain about the chassis because of the above lack of vision on what they are building their car for. Tons of people go for power adders right off the bat. some of the fastest 135i's i've seen are running stock tune lol. I have also seen 128i's running better lap times than any 135i time I have seen. it takes a big set of balls and driving skill to run fast... not just a fast car. Driving a 128i flat out with 200wtq is much easier than trying to finesse a 450wtq tuned 135i around a track.

As for the modding... yes 135i need a lot of work but it's honestly no more work than any other race car. No one runs stock bushings on a spec e46, e36, or even an M3. they don;t run stock cooling either. You replace pretty much everything once you start getting fast. 1-series is a bit more expensive than previous generations though for sure. Otherwise, it's the same shit. Anything you need to replace on a 135i you'd be replacing on an e46 as well. There are just a lot of inexperienced people out that that don't know any better myself included when i first ventured into tracking. And tbh, it's likely your car will be much faster than you are as a driver even in bone stock form.

As for autocross, a 135i or even a 128i can be extremely competitive locally. nationally or regionally? No. At a national level you pretty much need a brand new car to compete. Every year something newer and better is released that is just plain faster. 1M used to be a B-class champion car. There are now at least 5 others cars in that class that are much faster including the M2. Locally though yeah a 135i is likely to be a top 5 finisher if you're a good driver and don't care about pax.

[Ginger_Extract]

Mostly agree with the sentiments above. The E82 will be as fast/competent as your budget allows. If you're fast, you will be disappointed by tire limitations. A car of this weight/power really needs at least a 285 all around which isn't happening without a widebody conversion.

On my max effort stock body build I was running a 255/265 tire setup and still wasted so much time pedaling the car threw the low speed corners since it couldn't put the power down. For perspective, at every track in SoCal, barring the literal ACS Roval NASCAR track, my 190whp Honda Civic is as fast as my 135i was, just because I can be flat out almost the whole lap...

[lowside67]

People describe the E36 M3 over and over again as one of the best track day cars you can buy, and a 128 is better in basically every way including being cheaper. It has a better suspension, is lighter, the motor makes more power with bolt ons, and the chassis is much improved. The 128 is the car that every track day enthusiast SHOULD be going crazy for, and I think as "word gets out", the desirable 6spds and preferably sunroof deletes are going to become very sought after.

-Mark

[Phloozy]

Originally Posted by lowside67

People describe the E36 M3 over and over again as one of the best track day cars you can buy, and a 128 is better in basically every way including being cheaper. It has a better suspension, is lighter, the motor makes more power with bolt ons, and the chassis is much improved. The 128 is the car that every track day enthusiast SHOULD be going crazy for, and I think as "word gets out", the desirable 6spds and preferably sunroof deletes are going to become very sought after.

-Mark

Shhhhh stop telling people!!! They are going to snatch up all the replacement chassis from me

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by lowside67

People describe the E36 M3 over and over again as one of the best track day cars you can buy, and a 128 is better in basically every way including being cheaper. It has a better suspension, is lighter, the motor makes more power with bolt ons, and the chassis is much improved. The 128 is the car that every track day enthusiast SHOULD be going crazy for, and I think as "word gets out", the desirable 6spds and preferably sunroof deletes are going to become very sought after.

-Mark

They are already sky high. Can't find one for <10k. Autos go for cheap... and tbh the steptronic is really fun to drive. Could always MT swap a cheapo auto car.

The real talk though is that multiple companies make every part you need to turn an e36 or e46 into a full blown race car. That doesn't exist for a 128i. There are no cheap block off panels or door cards or anything like that. It's mostly all high priced bling. Youll spend 2x as much to build a 128i. It is the better car though.

[$iriu$black]

I’m just here to add that a 128i has so much potential as a track car as long as you know what your goals are. Everything has to be purpose-driven with mods, at least that’s how I think.

And of course the best mod is experience, “seat time,” as they say. This is the advice I’ve heard many a times when I was starting out but never truly understood until “I’ve been there, done that.” I’m not a racer yet and have won absolutely no prizes/awards while doing this like the other track guys here, but I can attest that the more you drive, the more you get better, braver and more confident on your car and your own ability. The speed just follows, really.

It’s a drug though, a very addictive one, once you get into it. You will love the car, whichever you choose.

[spidertri]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

The real talk though is that multiple companies make every part you need to turn an e36 or e46 into a full blown race car. That doesn't exist for a 128i. There are no cheap block off panels or door cards or anything like that. It's mostly all high priced bling. Youll spend 2x as much to build a 128i. It is the better car though.

This is my thinking as well. While the 1 series is a great performer and a modern day E36 M3, there were only 60k E82s sold in the USA vs 625k E9x cars. I'd expect the amount of E9x 3 series available to make it more likely to be a long term track option.

We definitely benefit from BMW using the same suspension between the E82 and E9x, although I am routinely annoyed that BMW gave us the +10mm offset rear hubs...

Sales by year
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1786606

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by spidertri

This is my thinking as well. While the 1 series is a great performer and a modern day E36 M3, there were only 60k E82s sold in the USA vs 625k E9x cars. I'd expect the amount of E9x 3 series available to make it more likely to be a long term track option.

We definitely benefit from BMW using the same suspension between the E82 and E9x, although I am routinely annoyed that BMW gave us the +10mm offset rear hubs...

Sales by year
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1786606

Just swap the rear hubs. There is a link around here somewhere… doesn't look too expensive and solves the issue on the rear.

Now why BMW screwed the E82 front offsets I have no idea but it's just silly. They easily could have designed it to use the same offsets as the E9x cars. Why BMW…. Why??

[spidertri]

Wish I could but its not legal for my autox class. Agree about the fronts too.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Wish I could but its not legal for my autox class. Agree about the fronts too.

Hmm…. How big a jump in class would it be? Other mods it opens up?

[spidertri]

Big jump, imo not really worth considering. And it's basically a moot point now that Apex has released 17x9 wheels in the correct offset for the rear.

[Onebunchmin]

My vote is for the N54 135. There's alot of knowledge about the N54. It's a strong engine with weak accessories, But then you buy the parts that will fail from FCP EURO so you only have to buy them once. If I stuck with N/A than I'd rather get a 350z or Civic Si. At least those have LSD's and a much bigger aftermarket.

[lforter]

Alright, so the 128i is the preferred and most reasonable car to track. Against what type of cars can a 128i/135i compete? Could it take a BRZ or civic SI on track? (Not autocross)... Miatas and S200 are better I would guess?...also the 228i doesn't seem like a bad option either...

[twinturbovan]

Hey this is coming from a guy who tracks his 135i vert. The 135i is a great tuner and track car. However they can be problematic. So far I haven't been on the track without having issues. The first time I went to the track to spectate there was a 1M in the paddocks and he was in limp mode. Somehow he had not heard of MHD so he wasn't tracking his car anymore til I offered to help him and cleared his codes and he was able to get back on the track and his money wasn't wasted. My car is extremely fun on track, it's fast with it currently putting down 468 rwhp and 610 lbs ft trq. It has all the power needed to really enjoy the track, suspension is what I've been focused on fine tuning. The first time I tracked my car we ran into misfire issues, another time we had misfire issues then my fuel injection system cut off at another track event. Of course MHD allows me to clear the codes but to be safe we didn't drive the car hard enough any more to prevent any damage. But man oh man does the 135i feel great on the track. I do have numerous sponsors including a Tire sponsor for Toyo Proxes and Hoosier Track tires but like others have stated, the biggest problem you will run into is the tire size limitations. I soon plan on going oem widebody to allow myself to run wider wheels and tires. But also as others as stated the 135i needs a lot of loving to be able to track constantly. I finally got rid of all my misfire issues and fuel issues so I'm hoping to be able to track more persistently now. So far I have not upgraded my cooling system but I do plan on getting a CSF Radiator and going dual large oil coolers. Also as many have stated, it doesn't matter how much power your car has, seat time is what will make you fast. I mean there's Miata's that are less than 200whp and are able to track with million dollar cars for a reason. It's all about seat time. However the 128i is lighter and less tunable but it also asks for less maintenance which will allow you to spend more money on brakes and tires which are the 2 most important when on track imho. It's really a personal choice on which of the two you want to track. I also don't think the 1 Series Community has reached it's peak when it comes to track/autocross. So far I have not seen another 1 series on track when I attend except that once when I saw the 1M. I think there's a lot more opportunity for track spec builds if more people start to track the 135i. There are many people who go to the drag strip with these cars but not enough seem to track or autocross here in USA so I feel like there's still a lot of potential for the 135i to become a viable track car. The 1M does amazing stock as a track car so the 135i has all the potential if people would actually build them to track/autocross but not many do. People always ask me why I chose a vert to use on the track since they're heavy. I always say why not? I rarely see the 135i on track any way, the vert looks amazing on track and its a toy that not many people see while on track. I only know of a handful of vert owners that track their cars and I'm included in that handful. The 135i is my choice over the 128i. Here are some of my track pictures to inspire you.

[beattiecj]

Agree with everything said, I started HPDE driving a stock 135i and had a blast. After awhile the weaknesses of the car became apparent and I threw a bunch of money on wheels, tires, cooling, coding nannies etc. and suspension with the aim of doing some sort of racing or TT. In the end I realized the amount of money/effort to make the car competitive was not worth it. I think the 1 series is a great car, if I had to do it again would go for the 128i, way more reliable. In the end I sold it and bought a used X5 but...

I ended up with a specE30 (1988 325i) to race, 2,700lbs and 160hp on 205 Toyo RRs. Can run lap times within a second of the 135i, obviously a purpose built racecar. To each their own...just watch the 1 series will skyrocket in value sooner than later.

[lforter]

Originally Posted by beattiecj

Agree with everything said, I started HPDE driving a stock 135i and had a blast. After awhile the weaknesses of the car became apparent and I threw a bunch of money on wheels, tires, cooling, coding nannies etc. and suspension with the aim of doing some sort of racing or TT. In the end I realized the amount of money/effort to make the car competitive was not worth it. I think the 1 series is a great car, if I had to do it again would go for the 128i, way more reliable. In the end I sold it and bought a used X5 but...

I ended up with a specE30 (1988 325i) to race, 2,700lbs and 160hp on 205 Toyo RRs. Can run lap times within a second of the 135i, obviously a purpose built racecar. To each their own...just watch the 1 series will skyrocket in value sooner than later.

Nice, you started tracking on a 135i? and I believe if I dare to track it I will get another really cheap car so it can be trashed on the track before jumping into a 135i, perhaps mastering a low speed car is more important at new levels.

also, why do you believe prices will skyrocket?

[beattiecj]

Originally Posted by lforter

Nice, you started tracking on a 135i? and I believe if I dare to track it I will get another really cheap car so it can be trashed on the track before jumping into a 135i, perhaps mastering a low speed car is more important at new levels.

also, why do you believe prices will skyrocket?

Agree, a slower less expensive car is the best route to learn, and way cheaper on consumables an E30 rotor is $30...though you will have a good time in the 1. I was naïve and thought I needed a fast expensive car to go to the track .

Just think they may go up, because its an under the radar car for most people, that gets overshadowed by the 1M. Feel like any car with a hint of performance/nostalgia has, merely a feeling than anything.