Would you sell your 1er for a 993?

[KNS]

Rooty Von Tooty,

No need to be so negative about the process, the OP is performing his due diligence. I've owned three Porsche over 20 years old and only one of them had some small amount of rust (under the battery and at the windshield corners). The other two were completely straight and rust free with nice, solid interiors. None of them were mint or showroom just very clean, very nice driver quality cars. These were California and Arizona cars.

Yes, there are plenty of rusty pigs out there but there some good ones too.

You're from Ohio so no surprise you're used to rust. I'd personally avoid a car from your area (AKA the rust belt).

[squidge]

My first performance car was a Galant VR-4 from Minnessota. Never again will I buy a rust belt vehicle. Good god.

I negotiated $2k off the price and am going to use it to buy new tires and brakes, replace the alternator, pulleys, v-belt, and fan bearing, and use the balance to buy SAI cleaning supplies.

Fuck yeah, I think it's happening!

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by squidge

Fuck yeah, I think it's happening!

.

[champignon]

Since we are talking about rust, I'd like to ask a question. Where I live, in Idaho, even though we do get some snow, road salt is not used, per se, rather a tiny bit of salt is apparently mixed in with the sand that gets laid down on icy patches. Cars do not rust very much in my area and any rusted out car you see is almost always one that came from elsewhere, or it is really really old, back to the time when cars were not made with much rustproofing.

I had the misfortune to buy a 2001 Z3 Coupe that was billed as pristine, with no rust, coming out of Massachusetts. I turned out to be a rusted out hulk, and I sent it back to the seller, in the end losing about $20K after legal fees and expenses as I ended up needing to sue the seller. Not a good experience and not one I would recommend to any of you, never buy an old used car sight unseen.

I also have a 1M, which was owned and driven in Eastern Canada for 3 years before I imported it into the USA. The mileage was pretty low at around 25K miles, and there was obvious rust damage underneath that was fairly extensive but did not very deep. It took a lot of pressure washing underneath to get rid of all the caked on salt. My BMW tech, who is the lead tech at the dealership, commented on the rust when it was up on a lift, saying it was considerably worse than what he sees here, but "not that bad." I researched what I could do and decided to use a product called Corroseal, which is used by the US Navy, and apparently changes rust into a stable form of iron called "magnatite," that supposedly can form a seal against further rust.

I brushed the stuff on from underneath on a lift to the point where virtually all of the rust was painted and did turn black as the instructions said it would. Some areas were applied on twice. This was about a year ago. Subsequent inspection by my tech and by myself has shown no progression. The car only has summer tires (PSS) and is never driven in cold or snowy weather, only in the Spring, Summer, and Fall. I don't even usually drive it in the rain. It is kept clean and garaged all the time. I put less than 2500 miles a year on it.

I have been told that the body panels and underside of a car of this vintage (2011) is way better protected from rust than cars made in earlier decades, and that so long as I continue to use the car as I do, as a trophy car protected from bad weather and garaged, that the rust I saw initially should not progress and it is unlikely that I will experience problems going forward in this car, used in this way.

Does anyone here have experience with a car that was driven on salted roads in the rust belt for the first few years of its life, experienced modest rust underneath in superficial areas, but subsequently was protected from salt and bad weather in a dry climate not close to the ocean? I am assuming that the car will be OK going forward, but am curious to know of others' experiences. Thanks.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

The buyer isn't doing due diligence, and he'll pay for his arrogant attitude.

Old cars rust, and Porches are no exception. In fact, some models and years are notorious for severe rust problems.

Being a California car is no guarantee of no problems. Also that California car may have come from another state. Tracing the past history of ownership of older cars is a problem in itself. Do you think the owner will reveal he bought it from Buffalo, NY?

As far as alignment and straightness of the body can only be determined on an alignment machine and a very experience tech. The older a vehicle is, the higher the probability of an accident. A skilled body man can hide a lot of sins. BTW, owners of old rides often don't have any problems lying their asses off about the condition of their cars. I have run into all sorts of shenanigans where the owner does all sorts of nefarious activities to disguise body damage and rust.

At this point, I have to relate a little story just how dishonest a seller can be. I once looked at a 30' Bertram Sports Fisherman. It was beautiful. The owner was just overflowing with platitudes about just how wonderful his ownership experience had been. I was seriously considering purchase, but I decided to first send it to a Bertram expert. I'm glad I did. The hull had serious damage which had a sloppy repair job done on it. Just glancing at it wouldn't have revealed the problem. It took the trained eye of an expert to detect it.

Here's the bottom line. To find rust require disassembling some of the car, pulling up floor mats, removing inner panels, and getting under it with a strong torch and a mirror. Serious rust hides in areas that aren't clearly visible. Sometimes you don't have to look very far to know to reject a car. The cost will probably run a couple of hundred dollars well worth it considering an old car can empty your wallet quickly!

[KNS]

^^ Sounds like you've had a lot of poor luck purchasing cars. Other than my 2004 325i, every car I've ever purchased in my life has been used, some well over 20 years old and the only one that had any rust (accident damage - none) was the 1980 911 (mentioned above - a few small spots). I do pretty thorough pre and post inspections on my cars and of course once you start doing your own maintenance, you discover potential surprises. Zero rust on my cars.

You need to stop lumping all cars with where you're buying your cars. The Midwest and East coast suck for old cars. Yes, it snows in Cali and AZ and Cali has beach cars but these are dry state cars (there are plenty of turds to be found here too). Example: I was pulling off the exhaust on a 26 year old 911. I used hand tools on the nuts and bolts. No torches, no swearing or thrown tools, the fasteners came off like they were a couple years old and were in such good shape I reused them.

Another example: I brought my 14 year old Honda with me when I moved from SoCal to North Texas many years ago (only lived there for about a year and a half). Zero rust on the Honda. After one winter I started seeing slight corrosion and discoloration on some of the suspension that had never been there before.

On cars made after 1981 you can run a Carfax and get a pretty good idea of where the car may have spent its life. If I see Mid West or East coast history I pass.

Maybe I've been fortunate but I haven't had anywhere near the bad luck you've had.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

^You aren't too bright, and you make a lot of assumptions. Also my posts aren't directed to just you. A know-it-all like yourself wouldn't benefit anyway. What's even sadder about characters like you is your basic dishonesty. Of course, you never make any mistakes except minor ones and know every detail about what you buy! Go away and argue your BS with someone else.

I buy cars from all over the country; It's what I do for a living, and I make a very good living. I don't have bad luck, since I know what I'm doing. I also don't assume to know more than the experts I rely upon for input to my buying decisions. Also if a car is rare enough enough, I don't care where it has lived.

[KNS]

Just saying stop raining on this guy's parade. Lots of people have been happy with their old car purchases. Explain my dishonesty..?

[squidge]

A local Porsche indy with an excellent reputation over 30 years performed the PPI, which I paid $530 for. They went over it for hours, providing me with paint depths all over, mechanical needs, and even down to stuff like a clip being broken in the trunk and the mesh basket being missing from the brake fluid reservoir. The car is structurally sound, and has nice original paint.

Funny that you mention the alignment. The guy who put me in touch with the owner of this car is the guy who does alignments on both of our cars, and they've known each other for 35 years. The owner of the car is a C-level exec who has had it for ten years, and had all records dating back to its purchase in SoCal. I pulled Carfax and everything lines up.

I've bought 20+ used cars in the past 15 or so years, the 128 being the most expensive until now, and trust me, I'm paying attention and taking the purchase seriously. Your high horse attitude is pretty ridiculous, Toots.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by squidge

Your high horse attitude is pretty ridiculous, Toots.

He is actually on a pony lately; you should read some of his earlier posts

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by KNS

Just saying stop raining on this guy's parade. Lots of people have been happy with their old car purchases. Explain my dishonesty..?

MRVT seems he's a hijacker these days, as well as horse trader. Mind, very good livin' at it too. Happy for him. Been a great thread but for..

Sq, it sounds like a gem; get your hands dirty. If it betrays you, there's a few here 'waiting in the weeds to adopt.

You did it absolutely Textbook. Cali, C-suite, PPI, ten yr owner, perfect.

Lookin' for it in the corral on MontBay peninsula next August at Laguna Seca?

[Tommm]

Squidge,
STOP. DO NOT BUY THE CAR!!!

Immediately, and I mean immediately cease all communication with the seller.

Then give Fruity Von Snooty the sellers information so he/she can review the car, point out all of the flaws the vehicle has, which make it a menace on the road, and then buy it for exactly what you are paying, and then resell it.

Or, give me the sellers number so I can pounce on the deal.

Please don't thank me Squidge. I am happy to save a car enthusiast from making a terrible mistake.

[squidge]

We're meeting tomorrow at noon to seal the deal. I'm already ordering maintenance stuff so I can get my hands dirty ASAP. Today I'm getting the 128i cleaned up and pulling off some of the accessories. It's bittersweet; I love this little car.

[ilikebmxbikes]

993 > 1series - sorry

[squidge]

https://goo.gl/photos/vrcYapAhp8Gi3wuJ9

I'm a pretty equal split of nervous and excited right now.

[gap]

Congrats on your new to you 993, to me one of the best looking 911's.

[KNS]

Huge Congratulations - I take it the deal is done. Have fun getting familiar with your new car, it really is the sweet spot between the old and new 911s. Other than ABS brakes, no computer nannies to blur the experience.

There's a well respected Porsche mechanic (he contributes from time to time on Rennlist) that calls the 993 a "very special" car compared to Porsche's other production cars.

[squidge]

Yep, deal is done. Passed smog yesterday. I've ordered up some parts to address some of the issues from the PPI, and it's getting new tires next week (so sad I can't get PSSs in the right size, but PS2s will do.)

Thanks again for all the input and helping me make up my mind guys.

(Now somebody buy my 128i!)

[Tommm]

[wjk_glynn]

Originally Posted by squidge

Yep, deal is done...

Congratulations!

And now for some "light" reading:

Porsche 993 Essential Companion by Adrian Streather



Porsche 911 Carrera (Type 993) Service Manual by Bentley Publishers



Karl.

[squidge]

The owner actually gave me a copy of the first one, along with a 911 coffee table book and a Valentine One!

[squidge]

Sold the 128 today. I'm sad to see it go -- it was a great little car during the nine or so months I had it. I'm pretty excited about the 911 though.

I ended up selling it to my upstairs neighbor, who's been secretly lusting after it since I bought it. Funny how I found the 911 and sold the 128 through equally unlikely situations.

Anyway, I appreciate all the input on this thread and others during my time on the board. Cheers, guys!

Now to finish replacing the alternator...