Visa says Dealer has to accept my card as payment for my BMW. Anyone been told NO !?

[Red135]

Well, called Capital One. After 15 min of trying to get them to understand the question, I hung up.
Called Visa USA. They apologized, took the info and are going to file a report. We will see what happens.

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by Red135

Well, called Capital One. After 15 min of trying to get them to understand the question, I hung up.
Called Visa USA. They apologized, took the info and are going to file a report. We will see what happens.

red,

your case is a little different...youa re trying to put down a deposit with on your car with VISA..no?

Or are you trying to pay for the whole car with VISA?

[Red135]

Just the down payment / cap reduction.

[Jewpac]

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

Again, that is the way you interpet it...other states and other courts may feel differently....

i say, and as others have already detailed here...the dealer can refuse the payment by CC...i say especially if you sign a contract for cash payment....

i have posted this before...I have seen many people write and ask about paying for a car totally with a credit card...and they include the threats to the dealer...

so far I have never seen one poster come back and say they were able to do it....where's all the legal action?

Incorrect, that is the legal definition of cash. Peopl have the option to take legal action, that does not mean they choose to do so as it might not be a fight worth fighting. The dealer has no legal grounds to stand on to deny a CC purchase, I know of people who have put the entire purchase price of a much more expensive car on an AMEX after initial refusal by the dealer to accept such form of payment.

Again I say, any contract where cash is stated without any other option other than finance, a CC is legally considered as a form of cash payment. I dont know why you might think otherwise, but I have a feeling you have little dealings with purchase contracts such as these.

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by Jewpac

Incorrect, that is the legal definition of cash. Peopl have the option to take legal action, that does not mean they choose to do so as it might not be a fight worth fighting. The dealer has no legal grounds to stand on to deny a CC purchase, I know of people who have put the entire purchase price of a much more expensive car on an AMEX after initial refusal by the dealer to accept such form of payment.

Again I say, any contract where cash is stated without any other option other than finance, a CC is legally considered as a form of cash payment. I dont know why you might think otherwise, but I have a feeling you have little dealings with purchase contracts such as these.

feel whatever you wish......

but like I said many have tried...but as far I I know none have succeeded...

BTW...buyers do have other finance options...

sounds like you should start the class action suit..or at least get paid to help others use their CC....your talk is cheap, lets see some action.

and you should start with helping Red here who can't use a CC at all...

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by Red135

Just the down payment / cap reduction.

that is definitely wrong....

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

that is definitely wrong....

Yea, that would be enough for me to buy the car from a different dealership. You can walk into the dealership parts department and use a credit card for thousands of dollars worth of parts or repairs. The dealership pays the same credit card service fee whether they're selling cars, parts or service.. correct?

[Jewpac]

Originally Posted by buckwheat986

feel whatever you wish......

but like I said many have tried...but as far I I know none have succeeded...

BTW...buyers do have other finance options...

sounds like you should start the class action suit..or at least get paid to help others use their CC....your talk is cheap, lets see some action.

and you should start with helping Red here who can't use a CC at all...

What do I care whether he is allowed to or not? If he wants to, he say what Ive been posting here to the dealer, which it seems as though he did. Im not a lawyer, but I do know my rights as a consumer and Im trying to share my knowledge of those rights with people here, how is that not helping? And its not an issue of how I feel, but rather the issue of the legal definition of the term "cash" in reference to a contract to purchase a car as well as knowledge of merchant agreements any business must sign before being allowed to accept a credit card. It seems as though Red has his situation handled through VISA which would be the best course of action. Also I dont know where you came up with this class action suit crap but that is in no way applicable to this situation for a variety of reasons starting with the most simple that each BMW dealer is a franchise not owned by a large comglomerate.

[Jewpac]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

Yea, that would be enough for me to buy the car from a different dealership. You can walk into the dealership parts department and use a credit card for thousands of dollars worth of parts or repairs. The dealership pays the same credit card service fee whether they're selling cars, parts or service.. correct?

Yes, but they would argue that the markup on service and parts is so high that taking a 2% hit on those profits is insignificant.

[ARES45]

It isn't screwing the dealer, they get the money for selling the car. Yes they have to pay a service charge, but they agreed to that when they decided to accept cards. Maybe Visa is screwing the dealer, but not the consumer. I am sure it is coming out of the CA's pocket and that is why they refuse to accept it. Maybe BMW should start offering more attractive rates if the can't compete with a credit card. It will be a rare occasion where people will buy with a CC so the dealer IMO should just get a straw and suck it up.

[Jewpac]

Originally Posted by ARES45

It isn't screwing the dealer, they get the money for selling the car. Yes they have to pay a service charge, but they agreed to that when they decided to accept cards. Maybe Visa is screwing the dealer, but not the consumer. I am sure it is coming out of the CA's pocket and that is why they refuse to accept it. Maybe BMW should start offering more attractive rates if the can't compete with a credit card. It will be a rare occasion where people will buy with a CC so the dealer IMO should just get a straw and suck it up.

Not to mention, it wouldnt be that hard to get around the merchant agreement if they dealer was any smart and/or motivated to do so.

[DC135i]

Alright, I haven't had the chance to read ALL 5 pages on this topic (so please forgive me if this was already mentioned), but I wanted to add that a work-around to this issue are credit card convenience checks. They are often at very low percentage rates for a fixed term, or for the life of the balance. If you have a great credit union like mine (Bank-Fund CU), they will not charge you a fee. SO: Write a check to yourself, deposit it into your checking account, and then get a cashier's check (or similar) to the dealer! Has anyone tried this yet?:smile:

[Jewpac]

Originally Posted by DC135i

Alright, I haven't had the chance to read ALL 5 pages on this topic (so please forgive me if this was already mentioned), but I wanted to add that a work-around to this issue are credit card convenience checks. They are often at very low percentage rates for a fixed term, or for the life of the balance. If you have a great credit union like mine (Bank-Fund CU), they will not charge you a fee. SO: Write a check to yourself, deposit it into your checking account, and then get a cashier's check (or similar) to the dealer! Has anyone tried this yet?:smile:

As mentioned before that is similar to a cash advance. The interest is usually at a much higher rate than the card is plus it starts accruing the moment it is used and you are not eligible for points or miles by using this form of payment.

[pwillcutts]

Originally Posted by BullishMB

$400,000 limit must be nice. As I believe the credit agencies look for 10% and under utilization.

Another aspect that negatively effects your score is a high overall balance on revolving credit. I think they look for $1000 and under.

No offense, but i don't think you have a firm grasp here on how credit works. Your math is all wrong. What you "believe the credit agencies look for" is a flat-out wrong belief altogether. And that $400,000 is a non-sensical figure to quote in this discussion. Let's just leave your guesses & speculation aside and get back to a sensible, fact-based & informed discussion;

Now....getting back to the real issue here (not judging each other's credit worthiness and speculating how credit agencies work)..............the question remains:

Can anyone force the dealer to abide by their VISA contract and accept VISA for payment of their car? AT MSRP ? ABOVE MSRP? BELOW MSRP? OR AT ANY PRICE ?????

The real debate here is whether a deal is a "cash" deal ONLY with cold-hard-cash or whether VISA is considered an equivilent to cash in tranascations, regardless of potential financial impact to the mercahnt due to their known and accepted VISA contractual agreements and VISA fees.

In my case, I'd be better off passsing up the small $500-discount from MSRP deal I have, IF I can get my dealer to abide by their VISA contract and accept my card for $40,000 payment, which will save me $1,700 in interest expense over 12 months.

Then again.....my car is now "IN TRANSIT" (as of today!).....so my weak-minded desire is for this car is clearly putting me in an ever weaker and weaker position to negotiate....as i just wan my damn 'vert by June !!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[FreeBMW.net]

My buddy works at a BMW dealer here in MI. I stopped by today to chat and posed the question to him. He replied that the largest visa payment they would acept would be $5000. I asked if he knew that the Visa merchant agreement said that they could not limit the amount...I perked his interest and he went to the business office and got a copy of the dealerships Visa agreement. First I was surprized to see that they use VISA to do the card transactions....not a 3rd party merchant services company. The agreement clearly stated that they could not impose a min or max transaction limit BUT stated that if they are taking a payment larger than $4999.99 they were allowed to pass 2-5% of the transaction charge onto the customer depending on the amount of the transaction (it had some table listed to figure out the proper % to use). He went on to say that people HAVE put an entire car purchase on cards before but they worked the transaction cost into the deal, he said people do it mostly for the points or cash back.


Disclaimer: this is ONE dealers agreement and by no means is it static VISA policy.

[BullishMB]

Originally Posted by pwillcutts

No offense, but i don't think you have a firm grasp here on how credit works. Your math is all wrong. What you "believe the credit agencies look for" is a flat-out wrong belief altogether. And that $400,000 is a non-sensical figure to quote in this discussion. Let's just leave your guesses & speculation aside and get back to a sensible, fact-based & informed discussion.

Haha ok.

Here are parts cut and pasted from my FICO report done a few months ago:

Originally Posted by Negatives

The amount owed on your revolving accounts is too high($645).

Your FICO score evaluates how much you owe on your revolving accounts (such as your credit cards). The amount you owe on these accounts is too high. What to do about this: You should consider lowering the balances on your revolving accounts. However, consolidating or moving your debt from one account to another will usually not help your FICO score since the same total amount is owed.

Most FICO High Achievers owe less than $600 on revolving accounts such as credit cards and department store cards.

Originally Posted by Positives

You've limited the use of your available credit.

Your FICO score evaluates your total revolving account balances in relation to your total credit limits on those accounts. Your FICO score was helped because you've kept this ratio of balances to credit limits low.

Ratio of your revolving balances to your credit limits 9%

For FICO High Achievers , this ratio is 7%, on average.

I was going to do a screen shot but I don't think it's necessary to prove you're the one who doesn't have a firm grasp on what he's talking about. But I'd love for you to prove me wrong with some actual facts instead of just claiming I don't know my ass from my elbow.

I probably have better credit then you and I got $1700 off my 135i.

[pwillcutts]

Originally Posted by BullishMB

Haha ok.
Here are parts cut and pasted from my FICO report done a few months ago:
I was going to do a screen shot but I don't think it's necessary to prove you're the one who doesn't have a firm grasp on what he's talking about. But I'd love for you to prove me wrong with some actual facts instead of just claiming I don't know my ass from my elbow.
I probably have better credit then you and I got $1700 off my 135i.

I admire and congratulate you for your responsible credit management. I wish more people in this country did the same.

I'm not intending to challenge you or compete with you on whose credit is better...that's really silly and quite pointless to this discucssion.

Nonetheless, your mention of a $400,000 credit limit in this discussion is not reflective of a informed opinion on the subject, is it?

The question of this thread is simply whether VISA is accepted by the dealer for payment of a car, period.

I would submit to you that passing judgement on each other's credit scores, or cutting and pasting FICO reports is a bit tangential to this discussion, is it not?

But not to leave your remarks ignored: all things are relative: you keep your credit scores sound given your credit limits and the rest of us will do the same. If I have a credit limit that allows this VISA transaction on my car purchase, so be it. That's not intended to offend you.

Again, we're off-point here. The question simply is: Will the dealer accept VISA?

I appreciate your remarks though, because some people would do damange to their credit by maxing out their credit limits for the sake of a 0% offer from a credit card. However, that is not germane to this discussion, as I've already pointed out that I am able to make this transaction without negative impact to my personal credit scores. So lets not get tied in knots over that point, but rather, back to the real point: can we use VISA ?

Your situation is of course different, as is everyone's. Nice work on the MSRP discount as well, but again, it has absolutely no relevanacy to our discussion of VISA transactions here, does it? Perhaps you would best bring that discussion to another thread (ie:Payne Method)

Enjoy your new ride

[Red135]

Well, I have to jump in on pwillcutts side here. I am sure that your credit is impeccable, BullishMB, but I guarantee mine is just as good and I got nothing off of MSRP so I am not sure what sense your argument makes about creditworthiness determining discount amount. And it is not the topic.

[Dan203]

My credit score is over 800 and yet I still paid full MSRP for my car. So obviously your credit score has absolutely nothing to do with the deal you get on the price of the car.

Dan

[jerico68]

Don't you guys think this is getting a little out of hand with people talking about complaints and lawsuits. I just bought a 135i and I also work for a car dealership so I can see it from both sides. From the dealer's perspective, it just costs way too much money for them to not put a limit on credit card purchases. Car markups are in the 7 to 9% range and to pay 2% to the credit card company after giving away a discount isn't really good for business, is it? Cars are unlike smaller ticket items where markups are much much higher than the markup on cars. So I have decided to just charge the measly $2500 on my MC, cut them a cheque for the balance and drive away in my new car. By insisting on paying the full amount on your credit card, you'd possibly be delaying the delivery of your car (this reason alone is not worth it for me), destroying your relationship with your dealer and jeopardizing future discounts from them as a repeat customer. If this to you is worth the fight so be it. But in reality how much would those points really equate to in dollars, $1000 at most maybe?
My suggestion is to just ask them to increase the limit a bit more or ask them to throw in something for you. That way both sides win and you drive away in your brand new car happy. Isn't that more important than the points? For me, it was.
Oh and by the way, read the fineprint on the 0% carefully. Some credit cards give you 0% but if you have other purchases that don't qualify for the 0% on your card you may get screwd on that portion. They may apply payments to the 0% interest balance first before applying payments to the other balances. So you might continue to pay 18% or whatever their regular rate is to the portion that does not qualify for the special promo. I've encountered several promotional rates that are setup that way.
Whichever route you decide to take, good luck. I just hope you get to enjoy driving this wonderful car as soon as possible.

[pwillcutts]

We can finally put this debate to rest, at least if you're working with my dealer or any of the dealerships he owns here in Western and Central Massachusetts.

This little thread of ours has made its all the way up to the top ! The dealership owner himself,Mr. Wagner, has read this entire thread of ours, and his answer is simply; NO. NO VISA, NO WAY, NO HOW.

How'd I find this out: funny story......so I swung by my dealer at lunch today to check to see if they could tell me what boat my car is on, since I went to "In Transit" status yesterday on the BMW tracking site.

As I walked out the door, the sales manager, Walter, approached me in the parking lot and thanked me for my business, but then got straight to the point & told me there was no way I could pay for the car with a credit card.

Of course, I asked "how'd you know I was even thinking of doing that"? Well, simply put, He said they read these threads all the time in the dealership, and since I've made no attempt to hide my identity by using my actual name on this website (pwillcutts), it was pretty easy for them to identify me.

So anyways, Walter said he just wanted to be clear of their policy against accepting credit cards for payment of the entire car, so as to avoid any complications or conflicts when I come in to pick up my car at delivery. I appreciate that. As I said to Walter, this question of using VISA was no grand conspiracy on my part, or an attempt to pick a fight with my dealer,but rather, simply a question of trying to see if I could save money given an attractive financing option that been offered to me by VISA since the time when I first ordered my car six weeks ago.

Now whether Mr. Wagner is still legally obliged to accept VISA, given the clear language in the "merchant agreement" I've posted here, is another matter. I think he is. But it's his business, and if he wants to risk not following the merchant rules, that's his decision. Do I want to make a federal case out of this and drag VISA into this: NO. It's not worth it to me. Maybe some other buyer reading this thread will push it that far, but mea culpa, enough already, I just wanted to save a lousy $1,700 if I could use my VISA offer, but apparently I can't, regardless of the rules. So Onto my original plan: I had already lined up a car loan with PenFed at 4.25%, and so that's what I'll be doing, handing them the check from PenFed for my beautiful car!

On a positive note; Walter is throwing me some free car mats and locking wheel nuts and maybe a few other goodies for me (right Walter; you're still reading this right?:biggrin.

As I said to Walter, I'm looking for a good relationship with my dealer. I've not gotten into the game of vying the other local BMW dealer up against this dealer to chisel down the best deal I might have possibly been able to get on this car. In fact I've already sent referrals to my salesman Jeremy, and am actually looking to give them more business, not wring them dry. Hopefully I get the full VIP treatment through a long-standing relationship with these guys, and they take care of me whenever and wherever possible (just obviously not on this VISA deal!)

By the way: we're not the only ones debating this very same issue:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...highlight=amex


Peace....

Now onto tracking "Courage".....the boat now sailing across the pond and bringing me my baby !:thumbup:

[Red135]

Since we know who you "me culpa" statement is directed at, why don't you answer me this: when you tell the finance director that you will call VISA and his answer is "fine go ahead" what would your reaction have been? Don't turn your stance suddenly and accost others for the same thing you were previously arguing for. If I had been shown an ounce of courtesy or offered anything in exchange for not using the card I would have taken it.