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      02-12-2015, 07:25 PM   #23
fe1rx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Also, aren't the bushings the same anyways?
That is my conclusion.
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      02-12-2015, 09:15 PM   #24
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I am still of the approach that replacing all of those bushings to something completely solid would make the most difference... that is always the place of most flex.
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      02-12-2015, 10:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
So basically nearly zero point. Also, aren't the bushings the same anyways?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
That is my conclusion.
I'd like to just get all the bushings replaced with Powerflex black ones. That's what the Bimmerworld team does with their 328i race cars . . .
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      02-12-2015, 11:01 PM   #26
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Interesting that the trailing arms and their bushings are the same for the 135i and M3.
Found this online about a E90 M3 trailing arm failure that the owner could not remember any situation
that would have caused it. The buckling away from the fuel tank and slow progressive failure is a strong argument to leave the trailing arms stock for safety reasons.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413117
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      02-12-2015, 11:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gap View Post
Interesting that the trailing arms and their bushings are the same for the 135i and M3.
Found this online about a E90 M3 trailing arm failure that the owner could not remember any situation
that would have caused it. The buckling away from the fuel tank and slow progressive failure is a strong argument to leave the trailing arms stock for safety reasons.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413117
Evidently someone needs to set the date on their camera.
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      02-13-2015, 03:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloksatoor View Post
Love the analysis.

Had a question, why are you fabbing the parts, won't using the RE or an akg racing part work just as well? Since they are adjustible?
If the car is tracked frequently, these adjustable arms wear out and must be replaced every year.
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      02-20-2015, 05:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
If the car is tracked frequently, these adjustable arms wear out and must be replaced every year.
RIght, so bimmerworlds got oem style monoballs for the camber arm in the hub and also the 4 for the trailing arm.

Does anyone just sell the monoballs which fit in the guide rod inners and the upper wishbone as well or we are stuck with one mono and one bushing? I looked on realoem but the parts are sold complete with the mono/bush pressed into arms.
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      02-24-2015, 07:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloksatoor View Post
RIght, so bimmerworlds got oem style monoballs for the camber arm in the hub and also the 4 for the trailing arm.
The hub (wheel carrier) has a ball joint for the camber arm already. The Bimmerworld ball joint is for the inboard end of the camber arm and it presses into the subframe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aloksatoor View Post
Does anyone just sell the monoballs which fit in the guide rod inners and the upper wishbone as well or we are stuck with one mono and one bushing? I looked on realoem but the parts are sold complete with the mono/bush pressed into arms.
You mean the outer (wheel end) of the guide rod and upper wishbone. Any ball joint you pressed in there would have to have the conical end to mate with the wheel carrier. No such thing exists that I know of.

Incidentally, the M3 rear arm ball joints are swaged in as you can see from the following section:

Name:  Rear M Arm Ball Joint.jpg
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      02-24-2015, 08:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
The hub (wheel carrier) has a ball joint for the camber arm already. The Bimmerworld ball joint is for the inboard end of the camber arm and it presses into the subframe.



You mean the outer (wheel end) of the guide rod and upper wishbone. Any ball joint you pressed in there would have to have the conical end to mate with the wheel carrier. No such thing exists that I know of.

Incidentally, the M3 rear arm ball joints are swaged in as you can see from the following section:

Attachment 1163398
Cool thanks for clearing that. Any chance you tested the m3 rear camber arms vs the pressed steel stocker in the 135? Other than the shock mounting (which can be fixed with a solid piece/clevis and eye to eye damper), is it also more bling than function? BTW thanks for all the reasearch you do on your dime
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      02-26-2015, 10:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloksatoor View Post
Cool thanks for clearing that. Any chance you tested the m3 rear camber arms vs the pressed steel stocker in the 135? Other than the shock mounting (which can be fixed with a solid piece/clevis and eye to eye damper), is it also more bling than function? BTW thanks for all the reasearch you do on your dime
The M3 camber arms sure look nice, but I can't see any compelling functional reason to get them unless you need them to match your desired shocks.
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      02-26-2015, 10:33 PM   #33
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My custom toe arms are now anodized and assembled. I am posting the ball joint assembly details because they are indicative of how the M arm ball joints are assembled.

As noted previously, the cavity that houses the ball joint is hemi-spherical.

Name:  1 Ball Joint Cavities.jpg
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These internal components were salvaged from an M3 toe arm. Unlike some plastic ball joint bearings, this one is not split and it must be forced into position and fixtured there before the ball joint is permanently swaged.

Name:  2 Ball Joint Internals.jpg
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Here you can see that the plastic bearing does not fully seat itself in the cavity unless it is forced into place.

Name:  3 Before Fixturing.jpg
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This fixture presses on the plastic bearing directly to seat it fully. Pushing on the steel part of the ball joint is not effective in seating the plastic bearing.

Name:  4 Before Swaging.jpg
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The geometry of the lip and of the swaging tooling required a bit of trial and error to develop, but the result is a consistent and sound swage, with no sign of cracking.

Name:  5 After Swaging.jpg
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And here is the big picture, showing the custom toe arms in comparison to the OE pressed steel part. The pin center-to-center distance of the custom arm is identical to that of the OE part.

Name:  6 Toe Links.jpg
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      03-05-2015, 12:44 AM   #34
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Before installing the new arms I tested their compressive stiffness as an assembly vs. the OE toe arm.

Name:  ROXY Toe Testing.jpg
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My toe arms are identical in compressive stiffness to the M3 toe arms (which are approximately twice as stiff as the OE arms).

Name:  Rear Toe M3 vs OE.jpg
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Here they are installed:

Name:  Installed.jpg
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      03-06-2015, 10:32 PM   #35
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The toe arms look very nice and should be durable too.

What do you think about swapping the lower camper arms for the M3 ones?
Do you think change to the shock mounting would make much difference?
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      03-08-2015, 04:29 AM   #36
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From the info on the 1st post, the OE trailing arm is "safer" than the ECS trailing arms? So I take it there is no real benefit to changing out the trailing arms? Thoughts?
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      03-08-2015, 08:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
The toe arms look very nice and should be durable too.

What do you think about swapping the lower camper arms for the M3 ones?
Do you think change to the shock mounting would make much difference?
I tested the OE shock mount in this thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1075240

I found the lower shock mount on the OE camber arm to be quite stiff - significantly stiffer than the upper mount. I haven't tested an M3 shock lower mount, but it would be shock dependant anyway, as it is part of the shock. The OE lower shock mount is stiff enough that I don't see it being a problem.
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      03-08-2015, 08:10 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyd0c View Post
From the info on the 1st post, the OE trailing arm is "safer" than the ECS trailing arms? So I take it there is no real benefit to changing out the trailing arms? Thoughts?
Gap's post #26 illustrates this pretty well. The OE arm fails progressively away from the fuel tank and it bends rather than snaps. A broken suspension arm will let the wheel flail around more, presumably damaging more stuff.
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      03-08-2015, 10:40 AM   #39
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If these parts don't provide any advantage, why would the BMW Motorsports engineers develop them? I don't think it's just to charge more for M cars.
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      03-08-2015, 06:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fe1rx View Post
I tested the OE shock mount in this thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1075240

I found the lower shock mount on the OE camber arm to be quite stiff - significantly stiffer than the upper mount. I haven't tested an M3 shock lower mount, but it would be shock dependant anyway, as it is part of the shock. The OE lower shock mount is stiff enough that I don't see it being a problem.
Thanks for that. I appreciate your analysis. Logically it probably makes sense to keep the stock camber arms, but to me the use of a rubber shock joint isn't very appealing at all. The shock joint has a pretty hard life because its used as a bump stop and also to limit the travel at full droop. The little rubber pieces seem a bit under-engineered to me.
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      03-18-2015, 01:56 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbar View Post
If these parts don't provide any advantage, why would the BMW Motorsports engineers develop them? I don't think it's just to charge more for M cars.
Purely a guess: They are comprehensively redesigning the suspension. The suspension arms were redesigned to meet the target goal that the engineers at ///M specified (whatever that may be). I'm not engineer, but the way I read it, it appears that a lot of the 1M/M3 suspension arms are not independently "better" (however you want to quantify that) but all work cohesively with the changes to the knuckle, shocks, springs, etc. to meet their specific goals.
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      05-06-2015, 12:21 AM   #42
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fe1rx, would you be interested in building and selling those rear toe arms?
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      05-06-2015, 09:16 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Purely a guess: They are comprehensively redesigning the suspension. The suspension arms were redesigned to meet the target goal that the engineers at ///M specified (whatever that may be). I'm not engineer, but the way I read it, it appears that a lot of the 1M/M3 suspension arms are not independently "better" (however you want to quantify that) but all work cohesively with the changes to the knuckle, shocks, springs, etc. to meet their specific goals.
I agree. They didn't just take the 135i parts and manufacture them will different bushings and such, they had their own set of goals for that car, and they designed the arms to meet those. And I would absolutely say the M3 parts are better than non-M components. That's not an argument imo. For the M3 Lower camber links, they're lighter, reducing the unsprung weight, the shock mount is superior, and they're stronger. HPA said they are 2lbs lighter per side than the standard parts.
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      10-12-2015, 10:39 AM   #44
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i was thinking about replacing all the rear arms with M3 stuff but after reading this the general consensus is its a waste?
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