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      10-22-2010, 08:41 PM   #1
thinkbig12
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Tips to drift on snow!

Hey!

This winter, I want to drift with my 128i (automatic-streptonic) in a parking lot!

Any advices on how to do so?

Never drifted before and I also don't want to damage my car by doing this...

What should I turn off? DSC? Should I use the hand brake? If yes, how!?

I know I might sound like a big noob! But, I honestly don't want to damage my car with my experiments..
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      10-22-2010, 08:54 PM   #2
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cut the wheel and give it gas. make sure to not keep your wheel cut for too long or else ur going to destroy your powersteering lines.
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      10-22-2010, 09:00 PM   #3
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I was hoping to drift more in the rain, but no LSD I am so upset about that.

Just make sure the DSC is off and you'll fishtail just fine.

If you have NEVER drifted before ...once it snows, go to the nearest mall or big parking lot and practice. Watch out for light poles. I did this as a teen. Cops stopped by and I was honest with them and they were cool with that (Was 20 years ago) Cops and kids are more dicks now.

It's a blast

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      10-22-2010, 09:18 PM   #4
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Hold the DTC button >3 seconds until your dashboard displays a circular arrow icon that's supposed to mean your car will spin.

To slide out the rear, drive too fast with the wheel turned and when the front tires start sliding, lift off the gas, pause a second to feel the front end grip, and then either give it too much gas kind of quickly or lift the handbrake quickly, and the back tires will slide out.

To bring it back, lift off the gas, steer into the slide as fast as you can, pause a moment when the back end grips, and then steer back towards straight while resuming some gas.

With practice you'll find the feel for hanging the rear end out and keeping it there.
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      10-22-2010, 09:37 PM   #5
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It is definitely a feel thing. It is a good way to practice recovering from oversteer. Understeer you just lift off the gas and you will regain control. Oversteer you lift off the gas while steering into the slide but you then have to straighten the front weels as the rear end comes into line. If you don't, you will swing out the other way.

I've never done this on dry pavement, at least on purpose. I did it recently on a wet skidpad and was surprised that it was harder. Or maybe it was just my total lack of experience. The coefficient of friction seemed to be changing and I wasn't keeping up with modulation of the throttle. Snow seems easier to me.
It's very easy to loose grip in snow but you have to be very gentle with the throttle.

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      10-22-2010, 11:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkbig12 View Post
Hey!

This winter, I want to drift with my 128i (automatic-streptonic) in a parking lot!

Any advices on how to do so?

Never drifted before and I also don't want to damage my car by doing this...

What should I turn off? DSC? Should I use the hand brake? If yes, how!?

I know I might sound like a big noob! But, I honestly don't want to damage my car with my experiments..
Since you've never done this before, start with simple and slow donuts.
It's really easy with a RWD car. You can start it off from a stop.
Just give it throttle as your steering wheel is turned left or right.
Hold the steering and keep applying throttle as the rear starts to come around. Practice that slowly until you get a feel for the rear sliding out.
Then slowly practice making the circle bigger by counter steering slightly towards the direction of the rear end. If it starts to straighten turn the wheel back towards/into the turn.

You'll soon get a feel for throttle "steer" and steering steer working together. Once you get a feel for that you can control the rear end swing out at higher speeds.

Be CAREFUL. Don't do this in a lot with cars, watch for light poles and parking lot drain covers. It's easy to lose a spin where you will feel compelled to apply the brakes only to discover that braking will make matters worse, and won't have the actual effect of braking.
Just release the throttle in a controlled manner and continue to apply steering to get the car back under control and going in the direction you need to go, like away from the big curb you're about to hit.

Heavier snow amounts make it easier as there is actually more traction than when there is a think and very slick frosting of snow.
The deeper snow will give you some added control by helping to slow you down and give grip where/when needed.

Have fun. Stay safe.
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      10-23-2010, 04:58 AM   #7
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Just a tip that's quite obvious, but make sure there are no poles around you. Some idiot at my former job's parking lot almost smacked his car into a pole because he was trying to drift in rain and didn't notice it.
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      10-23-2010, 08:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Oversteer you lift off the gas while steering into the slide but you then have to straighten the front weels as the rear end comes into line. If you don't, you will swing out the other way.
This will not always work. Lift off while oversteering will weight transfer to front, and might end up wrapping back to the front.

Also, the OP doesn't really asked for how to recover, the wants to initiate oversteer and keep doing it. It is called Power Oversteer or Power Slide.

I'd do this; (LEFT and RIGHTS might be flipped in the example below)

Go straight 20mph. Suddenly give steering input to LEFT and FULL Throttle for a split second the a LIFTOFF, you counter steer to RIGHT and get on throttle and keep balancing the car with throttle inputs, and number of RIGHTs and Straights, RIGHTs and Straight.

What happens is; when you initially steer to LEFT then suddenly to RIGHT to create pendulum and Liftoff is there to help to initiate this slide, then you are basically learning the throttle input and steering control working hand in hand.

This will work on pavement just fine. If you want to play in the snow, stay in lower gear as our cars are not that powerful, and then you might even lessen the 1st part of the LEFT because of already reduced traction. I'd not use handbrake, dont like the shock going back to drive train.

To get more visual input about the topic, Check out Tiff Niedel's video's on youtube about powerslides.
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Last edited by Evice; 10-23-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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      10-23-2010, 08:22 AM   #9
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cool yo
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      10-23-2010, 08:39 AM   #10
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Drifting is a sustained oversteer condition. Lifting off the accelerator will transfer weight to the front, increasing grip, but when you are inducing oversteer with the throttle, it will have a bigger impact on the grip at the rear. You have been preventing good grip with the throttle and you are now letting the rear end grip. That is what swings the rear end hard the other direction which you have to catch or you will spin.

I also think the OP needs to practice under and oversteer correction at least a few times before drifting. If he doesn't, he is at increased risk of spinning into a pole or something.

Jim
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      10-23-2010, 08:57 AM   #11
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ok..... few things to point out.....

Full throttle on snow, very not necessary. all you have to do is give the throttle a little blip and the wheels are going to break loose. you should be able to sustain a drift with 2000 rpm very easily with the right amount of steering input. Many people just go out on snow and go 6000 rpm and wonder why they can't hold a drift and just end up spinning out every time. Just learn to controll the trottle and you'll go as long as you like.

peractice some figure 8s, it's a good way to learn how the weight of the car transitions from one direction to the next, a good way to learn how to catch a slide and use it safely and you never know if the car might snap back too far the other way.

I've assumped you'll be doing this with the transmission in maual mode (or as close to it as you can get with a step/auto transmission

I would recommend that you only do this for short periods of time. if doing sustained donuts and such for long periods, you start to cook all the liquids in your car. this easily leads to breaking the teeth off of a gear in your transmission and/or your rear differentials spider gears. Take a break, go get a donut and hot chocolate, then go back at it 1/2 hour later.

also, even when the traction control is completely off, you can still heat up the rear breaks as they are contunuously massaged to keep the rear wheels spinning at similar speeds. if you hit a pile of snow, you can warp a rotor, so again, don't do donuts for long periods of time to get the heat up in everything too high.

last but not least, doing donuts adds snow into your wheels. it will freeze in there. make sure you bring a snow brush or something, and when you're done drifting, poke the snow out of the wheels (watch for wheel weights) failure to do this will result in the car feeling like it has an unbalanced wheel or two. and that's because it actually is. Ride will become more uncomfortable, and will cause more wear and tear to the car.

HAVE FUN, that's the most important.

and as someone pointed out earlier, just be honest with the police, you're learning to control your car in a worst case scenerio, and if there's been a complaint, don't be afraid to ask if there's a parking lot they know of where you won't be bothering anyone.

I've had cops come drifting with me when i had my subaru. I've also had lots of cops recomend big open lots near non residential areas that i would have never thought of.

if you go out with a group of friends to drift, that's when the cops are really bothered by it.
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      10-23-2010, 10:57 AM   #12
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hey guys thanks for the info... It definitely helped me out.. I can't wait to try this out!!
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      10-25-2010, 12:43 AM   #13
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I've read good advice and horrible advice. Oh man... Now i'm not an expert drifter or anything of the sort, but I've had my fair share of experience with my last rear wheel drive car (S2000), on wet, dry, and snow. I've also lost my rear end coming in to a curve too hot at the Dragon, interstate 129. Please... do not just let go of the throttle and wait for traction to return, lol... It's all about throttle control. Yes, you counter-steer (steer in the direction you WANT to be pointing the car), but you need to be on the throttle gently to spin your rear tires a little so they can grab for traction and straighten your car out. Throttle control is key, as the gas pedal is not just an ON/OFF switch. Practice your throttle control and counter steering in the snow in a big parking lot like everyone was saying. Btw, you'll need less throttle input in the snow, because too much and you'll just spin out (its slippery), and a little more throttle in drier conditions. You just gotta feel it out.
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      10-25-2010, 12:44 AM   #14
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Oh, and if you can find a video of DRIFT BIBLE from Best Motoring (youtube?), definitely watch it.
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      10-25-2010, 04:52 PM   #15
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be aware that DSC has two "off" settings. press it once and it says off in yellow, but it stil does some stabilization. hold it for 5+ seconds and the indicator on the dash turns red and it is "completely off". I put that in quotes, because I'm pretty sure the computer still controls a few things, but i can't remember what it does.

During autoX events i definitely noticed a difference traction control in both of these settings.

i find the easiest way to get started in a drift is start driving in a wide circle as you pick up speed make the circle tighter and floor it, this will cause the back end to kick out. As said above, to keep the drift you turn into the skid and feather the throttle to keep the back wheels loose.


*edit* there is an optional hand out the window that is supposed to increase drift score, but if you roll the car and take off your arm, I'm pretty sure you lose your drift score.
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      10-25-2010, 08:55 PM   #16
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In for link to "crashed my 128 into light pole." In all seriousness, it's going to take a lot of trial and error. Just make sure other people/cars aren't around and that you have TONS of room. The car is going to slide for a while before stopping on the snow/ice!
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      10-25-2010, 11:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickShift View Post
In for link to "crashed my 128 into light pole." In all seriousness, it's going to take a lot of trial and error. Just make sure other people/cars aren't around and that you have TONS of room. The car is going to slide for a while before stopping on the snow/ice!
and don't be stupid and do it near snow banks, i go around parking lots and pull people out of the banks with my jeeps because they think they know what they are doing and don't watch....

I laugh. Their bumper falls off, I laugh some more, then hook their car up to my tow ropes.
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      10-26-2010, 12:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyloft View Post
*edit* there is an optional hand out the window that is supposed to increase drift score, but if you roll the car and take off your arm, I'm pretty sure you lose your drift score.
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      10-26-2010, 12:29 AM   #19
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Turn nannies off and well you control the car with the gas. In some situations you will need to mash the gas pedal in order to regain control. You also need quick hands.

Go practice in an open parking lot

If you're scared that you will damage your car then don't do it. Got to pay to play.
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      10-26-2010, 10:02 AM   #20
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      10-26-2010, 12:25 PM   #21
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"Mashing the gas" to "regain control " isn't going to help anything but continue the slide or help you spin out. Light feathering of the throttle trying to get a little grip from the rear would be my suggestions.


Oh, nobody mentioned yet... Use some nice winter tires or at least all-seasons if you want any chance of controlled drifts.
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