% BMW owners that are "enthusiasts"?

[1Pirate]

Originally Posted by Fifty3bags

If you are interested in your car enough to join a forum, I would say you're an enthusiast.

I agree. I thought the same thing when I read the original post.

[BBursey]

I think I'd take the OP's question and extrapolate it into a hypothesis. Something like...

Is the percentage of BMW owners that are interested in the Ultimate Driving Machine increasing or decreasing, and is caused by, or the cause of, the perceived shift by BMW away from delivering that ultimate driving experience.

I'm assuming in this context (1-Series forum), that enthusiast means someone wanting more power, speed, handling, etc. than they need. I do like Harlequin's general definition of enthusiast as a basis.

Cheers,
Bryan

[2tonik]

You don't have to be a "modder" to be an enthusiast. In fact, I don't consider every "modder" to be an enthusiast.

My life list is
'84 RX-7 GSL-SE
85.5 944
'88 Mustang LX 5.0
'89 MR2
'90 Civic Si
'94 Integra GS-R
'94 325is
'04 RX-8
'11 128i
All stock except the MR2, Mustang, and 128i.

[128Convertibleguy]

Some context is required.

The 5% and the 20% numbers I referred to in the OP were people on this forum explaining why BMW does things now that are surely not part of the BMW tradition of sports sedans engineered for performance first. Like "BMW does this because only x% of BMW owners are enthusiasts". Their word, I just tried to define it in context. And said the definition was somewhat arbitrary.

Things like RFTs, sloppy bushings, and the lack of a true LSD. All these things are perfectly OK with people who simply like owning a BMW. But not with people who meet the proposed definition.

So, let me rephrase. Many current BMW owners are perfectly happy with things like RFTs, electronic LSDs that use the brakes, and sloppy bushings, because they are not "bananas". A banana is defined (somewhat arbitrarily) as:

Anyone who's made a performance mod to their current BMW that involved taking off a perfectly good whatever, except tires (the RFTs are just too easy a target). Air intakes and exhausts are included, strictly cosmetic mods not.

Anyone who has ever participated in a competitive event in their BMW. Track days and rallies count, as do BMW sponsored events where you drive your own BMW, unchaperoned.

There were, give or take, a quarter of a million BMWs sold per year recently. What percent of current BMW owners do you think qualify as bananas?

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by morningscifi

I can't say I agree with your definition of enthusiast then. I absolutely consider anyone passionate about their vehicle an enthusiast. Doesn't have to be modded or changed in any way.

+1.

That said, I sorta think brand loyalty would make you an enthusiast.

[TheSt|G]

Doing your own work, keeping the car for the long term, and driving the car how it was built to be driven.

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

+1.

That said, I sorta think brand loyalty would make you an enthusiast.

Makes you a brand enthusiast, not a car enthusiast.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Makes you a brand enthusiast, not a car enthusiast.

I can't be a car enthusiast and be loyal to a brand as well?

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

I can't be a car enthusiast and be loyal to a brand as well?

That would by definition make it less about cars as a whole.

What does loyalty get you? The opportunity to be in situations where you know your position is wrong but defend it on the basis of "because BMW?" Sounds just as awful as religion.

[Goombeh]

Ok, so my wife drives a Black 125i.

Let's see if she's an enthusiast.

She's loved the car ever since it arrived on our shores, now she has one. Whenever we approach her car, she'll comment, "Damn my car's hot".

It came with Black grills and I once told her I'm swapping them and putting them on mine. She almost threw the vacuum cleaner at my head. She loves it like that.

She almost cried when she curbed the left rear the other day, I thought she'd totalled the car at first such was her distress. But she'd rarely wash it, she be more likely to iron my underwear, and she doesn't iron. She would never consider modding it, in fact it came with a performance exhaust, and I changed it back to standard as she thought it too loud. I've also made some suggestions, no chance.

She would never, ever, bother going to a meet, let alone accessing a forum on the vehicle such as this one. She would not read up about it, she would not go out of her way to find out what makes it work.

Yet she would only get one in if it was manual, so we had to search long and hard, and she rev matches her downshifts.

She would never simply take the car out for a mountain road blast nor would she intentionally leave the windows open for an aural feast.

But I've seen her hug it and pat it before and turn back to look at it after parking it.

So is my wife a BMW enthusiast?

[Dboyz321]

I'd say an enthusiast is some one who:
1. Is able to explain in layman's terms the differences between n55 and n54, 128 vs 135 and 1m.
2. Have an understanding of possible upgrades (ecu, piggyback, dp, exhaust etc...).
3. Have basic knowledge of other higher profile cars (M's) and the Brand itself.

Basically be able to hold a few minute conversation about cars. I've met a lot of BMW owners who know nothing about the brand or their car other than how to turn their car on and off.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by Dboyz321

I'd say an enthusiast is some one who:
1. Is able to explain in layman's terms the differences between n55 and n54, 128 vs 135 and 1m.
2. Have an understanding of possible upgrades (ecu, piggyback, dp, exhaust etc...).
3. Have basic knowledge of other higher profile cars (M's) and the Brand itself.

Basically be able to hold a few minute conversation about cars. I've met a lot of BMW owners who know nothing about the brand or their car other than how to turn their car on and off.

No. That's dictionary definition of a Geek.

The word geek is a slang term originally used to describe eccentric or non-mainstream people, with different connotations ranging from "an expert or enthusiast" to "a person heavily interested in a hobby".

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

That would by definition make it less about cars as a whole.

What does loyalty get you? The opportunity to be in situations where you know your position is wrong but defend it on the basis of "because BMW?" Sounds just as awful as religion.

Jeez, I'm sorry I brought it up.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Jeez, I'm sorry I brought it up.

There is a serious point here, one that COULD be positive.

There's nothing wrong with considering yourself a member of some group. But some divisions are a lot more functional than others. It has always seemed to me that brand loyalty, when it trumps general activity loyalty, is not very functional. Many of the people here have a lot in common with the guy in a performance modified Suburu, even if neither the car nor the specific mods are to your taste. It would be a shame to let brand loyalty/pride get in the way of that.

I know I have a lot more in common with him than I do with your average 6 series owner. I've owned a number of brands. What they all have in common is that they've been modded for better performance, and a large majority of them have seen some sort of track, if you include autocross.

I'm a banana who currently owns a BMW. I like a lot about the car, I despise some things that, in my opinion, BMW really screwed up, when they had the talent not to. I assume it's because the vast majority of BMW owners are not bananas, and their marketing/cost guys have run the show. So I have to replace a brand new set of awful tires on my CPO, and undo some of the suspension tuning that accommodated those tires.

Personally, I think less than 5% of new BMW owners are bananas. I'd guess the number was a lot higher 20 years ago. 30 years ago my girlfriend went to track days with her BMW, and she wasn't really a racing person. She thought it was what the car was about.

[BimmerE82]

Not sure what I'd call myself? I own an 09 135i, an 08 X5, an 07 328i and an 08 Mini Cooper S. That's brand loyalty.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Jeez, I'm sorry I brought it up.

It could be worse.

At this point my level of car interest and knowledge makes me borderline dysfunctional when someone attempts to "talk cars" with me.

[m_thompson]

Originally Posted by BimmerE82

Not sure what I'd call myself? I own an 09 135i, an 08 X5, an 07 328i and an 08 Mini Cooper S. That's brand loyalty.

I have owned my 3.0CS for 31 years. That's brand loyalty.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by m_thompson

I have owned my 3.0CS for 31 years. That's brand loyalty.

Or it is just a wonderful car.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It could be worse.

At this point my level of car interest and knowledge makes me borderline dysfunctional when someone attempts to "talk cars" with me.

I'm in the same boat in some respects. I don't have the track expirience, but I'm VERY mechanically inclined and have modified and repaired almost every American car made. Still learning the euros though....

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Sinister_1

I'm in the same boat in some respects. I don't have the track expirience, but I'm VERY mechanically inclined and have modified and repaired almost every American car made. Still learning the euros though....

It's always the same where they make some variety of comment on how they went 126mph in their Elantra once or got 50,000 miles out of their last set of all seasons. Or just a blanket statement about Lambo/etc.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I think anyone who posts here qualifies.

[jester17]

When I bought this car, a friend told me about being at a mall or restaurant -- I don't recall -- and a guy pulled up in a Lambo, and got out of the car wearing a T-Shirt with red sleeves, stallion logo and "Lamborghini" on the back. "Please don't get like that" my friend requested. East to do.

[BavarianN54]

Enthusiasts know that the stallion logo is Ferrari and Lamborghini is the bull.