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11-02-2020, 02:48 PM | #1 |
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Camber on a DD
Finally getting around to refreshing my suspension. I have B8s, BMWP springs, and RSFB inserts that I'll be installing on my currently stock sport package 128i in the next few weeks. However, I'm debating whether or not not I should throw in M3 control arms.
I'd love to have the upgraded bushings, but I'm a bit worried about the added camber noticeably increasing tire wear as my commute is a little over an hours of highway driving. It'd be nice to have for the backroads, but I'm not quite sure if its worth it in the long run. I've considered putting M3 bushings in to the stock control arms, but that seems like it'll end up being much more expensive and troublesome considering the tools needed to do the job. Can anyone weigh in on this? How much would -.75 degrees of camber impact tire wear? |
11-02-2020, 04:21 PM | #2 | |
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I'm pretty sure it's a myth at this point. That said if your alignment sucks you'll scallop your tires. So take it to a known good alignment guy.
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asbrr544.50 Papa Popov315.00 |
11-02-2020, 05:54 PM | #3 |
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I agree mainly with Shock, toe combined with camber is where you get the bad tire wear. But you'll also have to fight with most alignment shops to put you at zero toe, of even any amount of toe that takes the readings lower that what show up as "in the green" specs.
Either way, under 1deg of camber is not enough to worry about. Go for it.
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11-02-2020, 05:58 PM | #4 | |
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11-02-2020, 09:55 PM | #5 |
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I agree with both posts above, been running dinan camber plates which got me to -1.8 to -1.9 up front for years and the wear is fine as long as toe is close to 0.
One strong point of advice, consider skipping the M3 arms. My 128i is a daily driver, and I really regret adding the M-arms up front. The impact harshness has increased significantly. I got some extra camber which is great, the front end feels nice on a smooth road ...but for the street I would absolutely pass on this upgrade and just leave the B8s+springs and maybe camber plates if you want. The Dinan plates add about 5mm height up front (not an issue for your BMWP, but for the B12 kit with eibachs it evens the rake out perfectly), but are maintenance free and you can almost get -2 of camber if you want that. Good luck. |
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11-03-2020, 10:56 AM | #6 | |
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Decisions decisions... |
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11-03-2020, 11:00 AM | #7 | |
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11-03-2020, 12:03 PM | #8 | |
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Also, I put the M arms on while still on runflats and it took about a week to change the tires (which were quite new). All said, I wouldn't give up the steering responsiveness and road feel considering the roads I'm usually on. I don't commute and don't have to drive much at all. I don't think you'll know if you made a mistake until you make the mistake
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11-03-2020, 04:02 PM | #9 | |
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If the roads are too harsh get better dampers and ditch the runflats if you haven't.
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11-03-2020, 06:09 PM | #10 | |
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Roads definitely weren't too bad when I spent 6 months in North Charleston there last year. The drivers and cops in that area are infinitely worse though. Half the guys on the road are jackass enlisteds in straight-piped stangs, and I will never go back to Goose Creek after getting a ticket for 11 over. That entire town is a speed trap. B8s are in hand, will be paired with BMWP springs. I'm sure they'll be rough, but can't the worse than the stock sport suspension thats been on for 110k. Runflats are long gone, but I just scored a set of new RE980AS for under $500 installed. Those will be going on with the rest of the suspension bits. |
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11-03-2020, 06:42 PM | #11 |
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I didn't notice any increase in harshness with the M3 front control arms. Just seemed more responsive for me.
Gran Turismo I think is generally considered the best alignment shop around ATL. I usually use them or Butler Tire.
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11-03-2020, 09:54 PM | #12 | |
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Last but not least, replacing arms up front is not a huge job, you do have to get another alignment though but if you have shot arms right now I do understand the dilemma....sorry, that's the best I can suggest. If your area has decent roads then perhaps it's ok for you... |
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11-04-2020, 11:07 AM | #13 | |
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11-04-2020, 04:51 PM | #14 |
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So, I've got B6's (same level of damping as B8's), stock Sport Pkg. springs, Dinan fixed camber plates. With 0 front toe and -1.5 camber all around there is no uneven tire wear at all. If you don't want to chance the M3 front arms you don't have to in order to get this level of camber and uneven tire wear is a complete non-issue.
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asbrr544.50 |
11-05-2020, 12:14 AM | #15 |
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I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest you avoid 0 toe on a daily driver. Toe is dynamic. 0 toe becomes negative toe out under heavy braking and from bump steer. Neither scenario inspires confidence.
Is 0 toe faster? Yes, under ideal conditions, but street driving is not always going to be ideal conditions. I've tried 0.00 toe, 0.03 in per wheel, 0.06 per wheel and stock. 0.06 is the only set up where I didn't get instability with bump steer and emergency braking. Car is still very nimble and I can place it where I need. I also run 2.2 degrees of negative camber. it wears the tires evenly. b12 kit, Dinan camber plates, m3 arms, strut tower pins are set to LEAST amount of camber.
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11-10-2020, 03:42 PM | #16 |
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Did some digging and it seems that the upper control arms are what makes the difference in steering feel, while the lower arms are what add camber. I'm after the former, and indifferent about the latter. Has anyone installed just the upper arms?
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11-10-2020, 07:11 PM | #17 |
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As an alignment tech, toe wears out tires, not camber. My own car has -2.4 front and -2.0 rear. I get even wear. My front toe is total 4 min toe in, and rear 10 min toe in. You want a little toe in, will improve tire wear and won't wander like 0 toe, also turns in faster.
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11-10-2020, 07:15 PM | #18 |
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The thrust rods (upper arms) prevent wheel movement forwards and back, so mainly controls toe change when braking, not much change to turning. The lower arms are the most important for handling, that is what takes the load when cornering, and you will see the biggest improvement there.
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11-10-2020, 08:24 PM | #19 | |
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11-11-2020, 09:05 AM | #20 | ||
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11-11-2020, 12:30 PM | #21 |
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I already need one, and with the new shocks/springs, RSFB inserts, and control arms going on all at once, I'm thinking I'm gonna get it towed to a shop (S/O to AAA for the free towing!), cause I'm sure it'll be a nightmare to drive after that.
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dtla1827.50 MightyMouseTech4337.50 |
11-11-2020, 01:26 PM | #22 |
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If you turn each tie rod outward by 3 1/2 turns it will be driveable. Way out of alignment but will not dangerous to drive.
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