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      03-01-2006, 03:26 PM   #67
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Yeah, I can see how the body roll on the A4's really give you an edge in handling.

E90 + sport package = undetectable body roll
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      03-01-2006, 03:38 PM   #68
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Every car has bodyroll. Otherwise if you make a hard turn your wheels would lift off the ground.
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      03-01-2006, 04:06 PM   #69
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Look at car and driver's March issue, had comparisons in there, but I thnk that it was the 325xi. Audi #1, BMW #3
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      03-01-2006, 04:22 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Every car has bodyroll. Otherwise if you make a hard turn your wheels would lift off the ground.
That's not why every car has body roll. You only lift one side if the lateral g-force is very strong. This would not happen under ordinary circumstances in a BMW or an Audi.

Of course every car has it, but BMWs have very little. So little that any car with sport package or the active roll stabilization will feel like they have virtually none.
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      03-01-2006, 04:29 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsand5
Look at car and driver's March issue, had comparisons in there, but I thnk that it was the 325xi. Audi #1, BMW #3
Well, I think this was discussed ad nauseum previously so I won't bother with all the details. But this article had price and other things as factors. I think the Subaru was #2 and I doubt anyone would really say that it's a better car than the 325xi. Arguably a better value, but not a better car.

In any case, I don't really care what some magazine says. I drove both cars and the Audi didn't come close to the 3 in terms of handling. Just a test drive comparison--I didn't take either down to a track, obviously.
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      03-01-2006, 04:29 PM   #72
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Car and driver $35,000 Sports Sedans

Fifth Place
Audi A4 3.2 Quattro
15.7-second quarter-mile time


People please test drive these cars before commenting on handling.
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      03-01-2006, 04:37 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laplacian
You only lift one side if the lateral g-force is very strong.
Exactly - what am I missing here? If you lift one side and the car has *NO* body roll you will essentially lift your wheels off of the ground. You want to measure your body roll? Go to the side of your car and push down hard on the trunk or the hood and see how much the car gives. That's your body roll.

If you don't want body roll, take out the dampers and springs and hook the drive axles to the body with a metal shaft. That'll jolt your bones.

Looky here: M3 body roll:



Low body roll:



</end-of-lucubrating>
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      03-01-2006, 04:48 PM   #74
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Body roll is not the same as lifting the wheels of one side off the ground. Body roll is what you show in that M3 picture (all 4 wheels still on ground).

You implied that manufacturers put in a certain amount of body roll to keep all 4 wheels on the ground more often. That's not true. Allowing more body roll doesn't necessarily lead to the wheels staying on the ground more often. It's about center of gravity, tire traction, and centripetal force. (where's e90wraith? )

In any case, this is a moot point. Normal drivers (that's me and hopefully you) don't even come close to lifting two wheels off the ground.

EDIT: There is low body roll on that Formula 1 car because of the tough suspension. It doesn't flip or lift two wheels off the ground (partially) because of its low center of gravity.
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      03-01-2006, 04:51 PM   #75
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Well, I didn't mean to emphasize so much in 'lifting the wheels off the ground' as much as I just wanted to point out that body roll exists in every vehicle with any kind of non-solid/static/fixed suspension. But if there is physical reasoning to show that body roll (or lack thereof) has absolutely nothing to do with maintaining stability, feel free to chime in (and lucubrate) on the matter.
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      03-01-2006, 04:57 PM   #76
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Well, high body roll certainly make the car *feel* less stable.

I'm not a suspension or slalom expert. But I would think that if a car has less body roll then it's center of gravity is more stable (not varying very much from left to right on the car) and that would make it easier to control during the twisties. So you could navigate through turns at higher speeds.

Of course, you are right that every car (including every BMW) has body roll. I just was unable to detect it in the E90 sport whereas I could certainly feel it in the Audis. Again, this is according to my butt gyroscope.
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      03-01-2006, 05:43 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laplacian
I just was unable to detect it in the E90 sport whereas I could certainly feel it in the Audis.
me too, even in e90 non sport.
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      03-02-2006, 07:01 AM   #78
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      03-02-2006, 07:24 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Nikki
When I said "race" I mean that I hit the gas kind of hard at a light and the person next to me launched so I stepped on it and pulled away from them, then slowed down when I hit 60 (10 mph over the speed limit). I don't encourage racing or really even doing that in any way.
Maybe they were just in a rush that day? Not everyone who has a "lead foot" is trying to race!
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      03-02-2006, 07:26 AM   #80
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My stock lightning is faster than both the 330 and 325 but you know what its a FORD so it doesnt compare!
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      03-02-2006, 08:16 AM   #81
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The difference between the 325i and the 330i is a teeny tiny bit more horsepower. Everything else is trim (chrome this and that, Xenons, etc.). The difference is only in the mind, and generally only perceived by people with 330i's who are desperately holding onto that feeling of being oh-so-special now that their moms aren't around every day to reassure them.
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      03-02-2006, 08:22 AM   #82
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If you cant feel the body roll your not taking the corner fast enough!
I dont want to go off topic so Im gonna start a new one
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      03-02-2006, 08:56 AM   #83
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Smile

Body roll has nothing to do with how fast the car will go around corners and how much grip it has. Just because you won’t accept that the Quattro is the best overall AWD system in the world and that an A4 around a track, with curves and turns is faster than a 3er-xi, does not mean its not true.

Jon.
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      03-02-2006, 11:52 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imageWIS
Body roll has nothing to do with how fast the car will go around corners and how much grip it has. Just because you won’t accept that the Quattro is the best overall AWD system in the world and that an A4 around a track, with curves and turns is faster than a 3er-xi, does not mean its not true.

Jon.
That's not exactly true. If the center of gravity is shifting all over the place due to body roll then the car will be harder to control. Plus, high body roll doesn't exactly inspire confidence when driving. Why do you think BMW goes to all the trouble to put active roll stabilization in its 5, 6, and 7 series? Just for show? What about Formula 1 cars with super firm suspension?

I never drove an xi so I can't compare that. I don't need AWD in So. Cal. And since Audi's front track is crap (according to the Audi dealer, not me), I only drove the quattro. The Audi quattro sport felt like a dog compared to the 330i sport. I'm talking about the 3.2, not just the 2.0T. Don't get me wrong, overall I liked the Audi, I just wasn't dazzled like I was by the bimmer.

In fact, I went test driving with a friend who absolutely loves Audi. We'd been talking about buying nice cars for about 2 years and what we would get once we graduated and got good jobs. He was enamored with the Audis (all of them). Before the test drives, he was almost convinced that he would get one. He was even expecting the 3 to handle a bit better, but still the styling and options of the Audi had him almost sold before the test drives. We went to both BMW and Audi dealers. Then we ordered our cars. He just picked up his 330 this week.
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      03-02-2006, 11:55 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porscheneer
If you cant feel the body roll your not taking the corner fast enough!
I dont want to go off topic so Im gonna start a new one
This is my first BMW so I'm still learning the limits of the car. Plus I'm a pretty conservative driver anyway so I haven't really pushed it. But I'd like to take one of those driver's education courses to really learn the car and what it can do. I've heard those courses are really great experiences.

This thread has become somewhat derailed--partially my fault. Sorry.
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