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      07-06-2018, 04:37 PM   #45
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If we're going by the tradition definition of what a M car is, I think the 1M is up there. M cars has always been primarily about chassis - everything else was a bonus. From what was written in reviews and what was shown in videos, 1M had that in spades.
Exactly right.

For BMW enthusiasts we almost never talk about engines that much. What were people doing with m engines? Putting in chips and air intakes at best? The car was always about the handling and the completeness of the package to us. Amgs were farcical jokes because they were comically unbalanced. It never mattered how fast they were. The handling was shit and the balance even worse.

This is just a reflection of the new gen of BMW customers that have come in with the Infiniti g35/37 thinking that engine power is what makes a car. Well engine power and some stupid color fit for a 5 year old. That's what's important in an m car now...

For us it was always exclusively about the handling and more importantly that feel of a chiseled piece of engineering behind the steering wheel. The rest didnt matter all that much. We could care less how fast the Nissan, mustang or whatever else in the next lane was.

That is why the 1m was/ is such a cult classic and will remain that way for a long time to come. It captured the fun that a lot of us dedicated bmw fans really look for, into a newer package.

What's crazy is that there was a time when every m3 out of the factory and most standard 3 series would deliver similar levels of magic right out of the dealership lot to every Joe Shmoe.

But these are different times with different customers so it's not a real m car to them. Don't forget it doesn't have that many m badges on it either so it's definitely not a real m car to them off the bat.
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      07-06-2018, 04:39 PM   #46
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I've driven pretty much every M car of the past 25 years and I have to say the e36 is my favorite driving experience. for me (even though I haven't driven one) I would say the euro e36 M has to be the best pure M car. I'd rather have an e46 m3 over the 1m just from smoothness alone (engine and handling).
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      07-06-2018, 04:41 PM   #47
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      07-06-2018, 04:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
If we're going by the tradition definition of what a M car is, I think the 1M is up there. M cars has always been primarily about chassis - everything else was a bonus. From what was written in reviews and what was shown in videos, 1M had that in spades.
So from the mid 70s to 2010 all those special high revving ITB NA engines were just picked up from the tractor junkyard but mounted in a great chassis?

Seriously, M cars are about chassis AND engines, you can not have 1 without the other. Even that 1M was tuned by M to be a tad different.

We will NEVER see a M car with a "standard" bolt on BMW engine.
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      07-06-2018, 05:16 PM   #49
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I don't know a whole lot about that 1M... but what does it do better than the new M2 competition? Is it just a bit smaller and a bit more raw? It seems the M2 Competition is a more modern - but seemingly just as small and nimble - version of that 1M. But again I don't really know much about it.

Maybe it's just the nostalgia around the period in recent time when BMW decided to make a smaller more simplistic M instead of a larger heavier M with more and more tech?
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      07-06-2018, 05:36 PM   #50
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1M is a very special and amazing car. I think it represents a pivotal time in BMW M cars and has a balance of old and new that I miss with the current M car line up. Is it the best M car? I have to tip my hat to the e46 M3.
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      07-06-2018, 05:49 PM   #51
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Face it. It's a M car or BMW would not have called it one. While the motor may not be "pure M" it adds to the uniqueness of the car. The low build count is another factor
I imagine you call all the new M cars not real M cars either because the have turbos. Times change, M changes. I've had multiple E30 M3's and I and 100% sure it's every bit as much M as the E30 and a better at for today's driving.
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      07-06-2018, 05:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
If we're going by the tradition definition of what a M car is, I think the 1M is up there. M cars has always been primarily about chassis - everything else was a bonus. From what was written in reviews and what was shown in videos, 1M had that in spades.
So from the mid 70s to 2010 all those special high revving ITB NA engines were just picked up from the tractor junkyard but mounted in a great chassis?

Seriously, M cars are about chassis AND engines, you can not have 1 without the other. Even that 1M was tuned by M to be a tad different.

We will NEVER see a M car with a "standard" bolt on BMW engine.
Where did I say all previous M cars had junk engines mounted to the chassis? I said the primary focus of M cars, and could be said about all base series BMW's were about chassis. If the BMW has a great engine, that's an absolute plus but growing up, the focus and talk about BMW's was how it handled and the driving feel and less about how many cylinders, volume or how much horsepower it had. Of course an engine is somewhat important but it was never a focus.

The engine focus started to take off with M cars when the E9X got the V8. Again, I'm not saying BMW has made bad engines, but since the E9X, people seem to have focused more on cylinders and HP.
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      07-06-2018, 05:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by instarand View Post
I don't know a whole lot about that 1M... but what does it do better than the new M2 competition? Is it just a bit smaller and a bit more raw? It seems the M2 Competition is a more modern - but seemingly just as small and nimble - version of that 1M. But again I don't really know much about it.

Maybe it's just the nostalgia around the period in recent time when BMW decided to make a smaller more simplistic M instead of a larger heavier M with more and more tech?
As you say, the 1M is smaller and more raw.

The m2 competition is a cool car forsure but it is also considerably heavier at almost 300lbs more than a 1m. Its closer in weight to an e92 m3 than the 1m.
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      07-06-2018, 06:00 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_Head View Post
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Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
If we're going by the tradition definition of what a M car is, I think the 1M is up there. M cars has always been primarily about chassis - everything else was a bonus. From what was written in reviews and what was shown in videos, 1M had that in spades.
So from the mid 70s to 2010 all those special high revving ITB NA engines were just picked up from the tractor junkyard but mounted in a great chassis?

Seriously, M cars are about chassis AND engines, you can not have 1 without the other. Even that 1M was tuned by M to be a tad different.

We will NEVER see a M car with a "standard" bolt on BMW engine.
Where did I say all previous M cars had junk engines mounted to the chassis? I said the primary focus of M cars, and could be said about all base series BMW's were about chassis. If the BMW has a great engine, that's an absolute plus but growing up, the focus and talk about BMW's was how it handled and the driving feel and less about how many cylinders, volume or how much horsepower it had. Of course an engine is somewhat important but it was never a focus.

The engine focus started to take off with M cars when the E9X got the V8. Again, I'm not saying BMW has made bad engines, but since the E9X, people seem to have focused more on cylinders and HP.
When you think of a M car, you know you will get a good chassis AND an ENGINE.

Primary focus was, is and will always be both.
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      07-06-2018, 06:01 PM   #55
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I have had 2 of these white and a black one.

The chassis was a masterpiece for driving b roads. It eats corners for breakfest!

The short wheelbase was awesome.

I have an m2 and an m3 and all i can tell you. They are less special to drive.

Why

Because they are bigger
Because they are heavier
Because the have a longer wheelbase.

Engine wise the s55 is much better. Interiour of the newer car is better.

But if bmw made a new m car with the same wheelbase and weight and size as the 1m with an s55 in it. I would be all over it.

But evey new m model is bigger and heavier and a longer wheelbase and that kills all the fun in driving!
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      07-06-2018, 06:06 PM   #56
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and for those debating what an M car is...

I think //M meaning has evolved a lot to meet consumer expectations. A lot of the motorsport inspiration that was present in the older cars is gone with the new ones. Most people dont care about a high revving NA V8 putting around town. They want torque and the sensation of speed over a motorsport motor that you cant really exercise on the street without revving it out and looking like a Dbag. They also care about mpg. They care more about M as a top of the line package, over its actual meaning and just want it for status. So BMW adapts to meet their customers demands. I think the fact that we have M x5/x6's and M badges everywhere on bmw's cars as a communicator of 'status'. 99% of M car owners do not go to the track. They just brag about them on forums and zip around stoplights or hammer onto freeway ramps.

I personally covet the old M values and find them to have an emotional quality I do not find in the new cars. But that being said, I am not a person who only likes M cars and I try to appreciate things for what they are. The 1M is a fantastic car. Even owning a V8 1M bodied clone, I still want a 1M. I accept that it isnt the most pure of M cars, but that doesn't diminish my affection and excitement for the 1M.
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      07-06-2018, 06:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instarand View Post
I don't know a whole lot about that 1M... but what does it do better than the new M2 competition? Is it just a bit smaller and a bit more raw? It seems the M2 Competition is a more modern - but seemingly just as small and nimble - version of that 1M. But again I don't really know much about it.

Maybe it's just the nostalgia around the period in recent time when BMW decided to make a smaller more simplistic M instead of a larger heavier M with more and more tech?
Short wheelbase w/big relative power. The car was twitchy much like the MZ3/MZ4 coupes.

Personally I don't understand what all the fascination is.
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      07-06-2018, 06:42 PM   #58
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Only 450 made?
For the U.K. with limited edition plaques as well.
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      07-06-2018, 06:44 PM   #59
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The 1M would not be the same with an s65. It’s a punchy street car. Not a track car.

Special for sure. A real BMW hotrod.
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      07-06-2018, 06:49 PM   #60
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This is one of the best ever, but not the very best. I feel like I bought the best one ever. Sounds like I am biased, but really, the reason I bought it was that I thought it was the best ever.

Z4M Coupe

I believe it has the fastest steering rack bmw put on a car. Think the rack was only used on the 1m and the e46 csl other than the z4m coupe. My car also has hydraulic assist steer, and a NA engine. Without any back seats and sitting low, it for sure has an advantage over almost any m car because practicality was never really a consideration like it is in virtually every other m car.

1m, e30 m3, e46 m3csl, m1, e39 m5 are other cars that should be in the consideration for best m car ever in my mind, but Z4M coupe wins for me.
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      07-06-2018, 06:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by instarand View Post
I don't know a whole lot about that 1M... but what does it do better than the new M2 competition? Is it just a bit smaller and a bit more raw? It seems the M2 Competition is a more modern - but seemingly just as small and nimble - version of that 1M. But again I don't really know much about it.

Maybe it's just the nostalgia around the period in recent time when BMW decided to make a smaller more simplistic M instead of a larger heavier M with more and more tech?
Short wheelbase w/big relative power. The car was twitchy much like the MZ3/MZ4 coupes.

Personally I don't understand what all the fascination is.
Twitchy is fun. It means it's fun always, even cruising at low speeds. You never feel like you are in a 3 series. Almost ever m car made recently feels like a 328 when you back off and drive on normal roads (sort of...). It also requires you to be good behind the wheel when you have a twitchy car. A true Motorsport car will be brilliant if you do things right, and will try to kill you if you don't. Beautiful really.
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      07-06-2018, 06:55 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instarand View Post
I don't know a whole lot about that 1M... but what does it do better than the new M2 competition? Is it just a bit smaller and a bit more raw? It seems the M2 Competition is a more modern - but seemingly just as small and nimble - version of that 1M. But again I don't really know much about it.

Maybe it's just the nostalgia around the period in recent time when BMW decided to make a smaller more simplistic M instead of a larger heavier M with more and more tech?
Hydraulic assist steering and the fastest steering rack bmw made is the advantage the 1m has. M2 is so boring around town. You need to be going really fast before it's even remotely exciting. Steering that's giving you information is the cornerstone of bmw being the "ultimate driving machine" and then abandoned that.
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      07-06-2018, 07:36 PM   #63
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Lots of things make the 1M special, however these are what stand out to me (and many others):

1. Dat ass - pictures just to not do justice to how wide the fender flares actually are in the back.

2. Looks like a concept car drawing/caricature of a car but is real.

3. Super quick steering and go cart like feel.

4. It's own version of turbo lag ... OMG overboost - wtf I was mid corner and the rear just stepped way out with all the nannies still on and I had to catch it with my own skill; there is a reason a good percentage of 1Ms have been totaled.

5. Designed by engineers for maximum fun - not to hit a marketing budget, spec, fill a hole in the line up, etc.

6. Engine feels laughably underrated when it goes all beast mode; feels more powerful than my M3 ZCP (however the speed at the top end would say otherwise).
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      07-06-2018, 07:44 PM   #64
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I think the 1M and E92 M3 were the last great M cars. And interestingly the 1M was the polar opposite of its contemporary the E92 M3 (low torque vs high revs, spastic and raw vs deliberate and smooth). I liken these badass brothers to James Dean vs James Bond.
I think it's a toss op between those two depending on your preference and priorities. I prefer torque and a little rowdiness (1M), but both have merits.
Everything since then feels like they were designed by corporate committee rather than driving enthusiasts.
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      07-06-2018, 07:50 PM   #65
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I doubt we will ever see such pure steering feel in a BMW (or any car) again.
Looking forward, sure. But both M Coupes and the E36 M3 has better steering feel. I'm in my 40's, which might explain why I feel the best M Car should at least have individual throttle bodies and an 8k+ redline. Either S54 M Coupe for me.
I call BS...:bs:


Tell me about that E36 ... how did it do at the 8k redline ...

Also.. tell me about the individual throttle bodies on the S50 and S52 as well. .. cause those didn't have them in the US because the E36 M3 was always considered " not a real M motor ".

I had an E30 M3 and a chip for it that DID go to 8K... but that's something an E36 was never up for.

The E46 M3 of course was never sold here.. so.. the best version of an M car in the US is definitely not the same as what was sold in Germany.
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      07-06-2018, 07:57 PM   #66
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