OMFG! Civic Type-R faster than a M3

[The Wind Breezes]

Dunno why this is so surprising. FWD is not ideal but it can be made about as fast as you want and this is one sick little buggy.

[Vigilante375]

Still ugly and wouldn't own one. Not my taste in cars.

[buildbright]

Let's see it on a real track with a real driver. Cool story though.

[Stevens21234]

hate steve. nothing new

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by fcman

The 275 Trophy LE was 1.1 seconds behind the CTR (from their previous video), not sure the alterations on the Trophy-R would be able to make that up on a 45second lap. It would be interesting to see though.

they complain about the brakes in that video, and I think the trophy R has bigger brakes and is much lighter (100kg). No backseat etc, so it's not a real hot hatch anymore (so not a fair comparison to a civic r), more of a dedicated track car (it got's more goodies like ohlins dampers, lightweight alloys etc).

What you see in that seat/renault/honda vid is basically that the most powerful (honda) is also the fastest and the least powerful (renault) is the slowest. But the trophy-r is faster on the ring than the seat (but not faster as the honda, but the power difference is significant). So on a tight circuit it would be nice to see if weight etc would be more significant and by how much.

I like this huge FWD hothatch battle that's now been going on for a few years. It gave fwd performance some giant technological leaps. Now all those cars have ATB lsd's or active diffs, some sort of superstrut or other advanced suspension etc. Nothing like this was applied 10-15 years ago in hot hatches.

[saxon]

honda and their "r" models are no joke.

i owned a 2000 integra type R and that car was fantastic!

[Ezio]

This is all track based. You get a small track with more turns, less straights. cars like the honda can keep up.

[NickyC]

Who knew Honda or any Japanese car company could make a fun car anymore for a realistic price? Bring back the mid 90's JDM GLORY!!!!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Let's see it on a real track with a real driver. Cool story though.

the M3 would still gets it's ass pounded. The Type R has a faster 'Ring time than the M4 and is made as a track beast....no point denying the facts here.

BMW should get to work on their FWD 'M-Active Tourer'----lol

[WhatsADSM]

Right everyone is pointing out how its a short tight track and that's why the Honda won. Yet it has a faster 'ring time (you know that BIG track with some.very long straight sections) than an F80 M3.

The Type-R is no joke, and always has been. It has curiously fast track times.

The only thing I do wonder about is the tires. Is the Type-R running r comps out of the box with the more GT oriented cars like the M3 and RS3 are using standard PSS street tires? A tire compound change would make a big difference in times if that was the case.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the M3 would still gets it's ass pounded. The Type R has a faster 'Ring time than the M4 and is made as a track beast....no point denying the facts here.

BMW should get to work on their FWD 'M-Active Tourer'----lol

**cough** magazine racer. Cool story though.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by buildbright

**cough** magazine racer. Cool story though.

I'm talking about documented reported 'Ring lap times...the Type R is faster!

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

M3/4 is featherweight compared to its competitors: C63, ATS-V, RC F, RS5

Like its an accomplishment to be the only overweight kid in the room full of morbidly obese pigs.

The type R is amazing and a great testament to what can be done with a chassis given proper engineering. Honda is no joke.

[aloksatoor]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Honda is no joke.

Except in F1 . But love this car, no denying it its faster than the Ms.

[FogCityM3]

Honda took a video documented Nurburgring time of 7:50 in their development car which had a roll cage installed as a safety measure. They will be sending a showroom floor one to SportAuto later on this year for testing, purportedly. I've seen this personally in my own tracking and coming from other more experienced drivers, the new M4's size is a hindrance and is likely about the same or slower vs the prior gen in the corners. SportAuto times are usually slower compared to factory drivers, but the Civic seems like it has a chassis and power delivery that are perfectly balanced, with one not overwhelming the other. Definitely punching above its weight.

[FogCityM3]

Agree, but the "fast sliding" are on higher speed turns where you want the car to be just above the limit of adhesion. In this case, Sudcliffe had the back slide out after a turn due to oversteer, so he most likely lost time.

Originally Posted by Z K

A lot of people say things can be faster without sliding - but sometimes the lap with a bit of sideways sliding is the fastest lap.

It all depends on how much speed you can carry before it slides and how much speed after the corner is achieved with a slide. A strategic slide can be a good way to change direction quickly without losing RPM/speed. A quick sideways flick is not the same as a full on tire burning drift.

The Civic Type R is more tuned for track than the M3. The M3 is a all purpose car - the Type R is designed to set lap times. Let's see the comparison when they have a more hardcore M3 GTS.

[MKSixer]

He lost the lap in the first 20 seconds and it went downhill from there. He should have been .3 to .5 seconds faster than the time posted.

This is not taking anything from the Type R, which is a serious car. I just like to see unbiased testing...not magazine jockeys with stop watches.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Dunno why this is so surprising. FWD is not ideal but it can be made about as fast as you want and this is one sick little buggy.

Exactly. My little FWD race Civic was faster than many RWD cars, and many were faster than me. Not surprising as it had a better power to weight ratio than a new 911 Turbo.

The biggest line of credit wins.

[M3Bimmer77]

Where did the civic time came from? I didn't see the guy driving it? How many laps before getting to that time? We don't even know if it was the same driver?

I really haven't payed much attention to this car but it definitely fast. I would buy it just to win a race but not as my DD. not my style. The M3 has design, elegance and performance. .2 seconds it's not going to make me buy a Civic.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I'm talking about documented reported 'Ring lap times...the Type R is faster!

"Documented" which sanction body oversaw the lap? What was the exact length of the lap? What "tricks" we're used to make this number. I have seen it before some car has an amazing lap of the ring and during other tests it falls short compared to other cars it is beat. These times are kinda of a joke. Wait till other more realistic tests happen.

[#Tee]

high horse powered forced inducted engine in a smaller lighter chasis wins? surprise surprise. super cars dont do so well when you take them on the mountains.

[oneup335]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

I'm talking about documented reported 'Ring lap times...the Type R is faster!

no point in arguing, this is a BMW forum and some can't take it that the oh mighty M was beaten by a car that's less mighty.