Is the 1 series the better 3?

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by larryn

Regarding the 'superior/inferior' materials comments, I think the 1er will definitely use less exotic material, like aluminum suspension bit or plastic fenders, which obviously translates to the higher than expected weight. Also, the 1er uses 'Boston' leather, which isn't as nice as the 'Dakota' leather used in the 3er and 5er, or nicer yet 'Nappa' leather used in the M3, or top of the line 'Nasca' leather in the 7er.

There are also grades of vinyl, which I wouldn't be surprised if BMW saved money on the 1er with as well.

I'm certainly not saying the the 1 series will be a POS, but BMW knows how to upscale models. I would expect nothing less between the 1er and 3er.

When the 1er was initially introduced in Europe, it was criticized for the relatively low quality of the materials used for the interior. BMW has since taken steps to improve the quality of the interior of the 1er. Also BMW is not importing the lowest level trim 1er into the US, so I expect that the interior quality will be fine on both the 128i and 135i. But if you expect opulence, you'll probably be disappointed.

Originally Posted by larryn

Curious.. what do you mean by "Those with responsibilities"?

I took it to mean someone with kids that need more space in their vehicles.

[The Stig]

How can anyone say one is better than the other when you havent driven one of them???

Personally I have a 335i coupe, and there are some shortcomings that i hope get addressed with the 1, however they are two different cars addressed to two different markets.

Its like asking which is better...the civic or the accord.

[ssam]

I have an e90 and I LOVE IT
overall style, confort and look is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the 1 (the 1 front in my opinion is almost outdated without the Mpack)

To succeed BMW has to price it well.....just look at the Audi A3 3.2 quattro Sline....it is a fiasco...no one is buying it....for the same price you can have a nicer A4

The 135 might be my next car for 2 reasons:
-I m more into performance than look
-I don t need a big car since I m almost always alone in my car during the week for my commute to work and I m attracted by the idea of having a cheaper car that is very powerfull and agile for in town driving

BUT IF THE 135I PRICE IS TOO CLOSE TO THE 335I I `LL TAKE THE LATER ONE

[Robert]

I follow the magazines' logic and I understand their point of view, which is understandable because of high gasoline price and an abundance of compact car to select from. However, I don't think they had the chance to test the 135i which is a complete different animal. I am looking for most performance for the value of my buck and 1 series seem to fit the bill. If not I will put myself back on the e92 m3 waitlist.

Originally Posted by larryn

Curious.. what do you mean by "Those with responsibilities"?

Let me clarify my position and perhaps you can see where I am standing.

By those with responsibilites I meant owners with kids or jobs that requires a perceived image. It's a fact that it will be harder to tote kids around or show a client around town in a 135i but I believe majority of the potential owners here don't belong to those category. I myself is looking for great performance car blended with civility at a good value. However, there are others here who wants to jump into a great luxury brand with the introduction of a new entry level BMW. What you said then is more relevant factors to them.

So as you can tell I don't care for leather. It's a hassle and I hate conditioning them all the time. Since I lost my car last year I bought a 07 civic for my daily commute (over 100miles/day) and I don't feel the giant downgrade in materials as I felt back in the 90s. The new civic long have high quality plastic and rubber that give a good tactile feel as more upscale cars. (I didn't say it's on par but it's very close for the price.) And the design is more modern and exciting to be than the 3.

I hope I am not coming off as being too negative on the 3 because if the 1 doesn't pan out 3 series will be my next purchase.

I have also expected the 1 might use less exotic materials as the 3 does but take a look at the press release:

- "The new 1 Series Coupe has a sophisticated suspension system with an aluminium
double-pivot front suspension and a five-link fully independent rear suspension in
lightweight steel."

-"The front suspension on the BMW 1 Series is also built to a standard quite unique to its
competitive group. The double-pivot spring and strut front suspension with its anti-roll bar, is
made largely of aluminium and offers an optimum combination of stiffness and low weight."

From UK:

- "Coupé but unique 18-inch light alloy wheels on the 135i Coupé, M Aerodynamic package, M Sports suspension, Sports seats, High-gloss Shadowline exterior trim, M leather steering wheel, M designation door sills and Anthracite headlining."

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=press+release


It doesn't sound too shaby but to me it's all marketing mumbo jumbo until some experienced driver gets seat time in it.
I think a lot of us are enthauist and we don't care what material they put in the car but just make the car fun and enjoyable to drive.

[Deutsch]

I don't really care about outside opinions, though I appreciate the info. The guy doesn't even live in Europe to know the market first hand, but I guess there's something that can be said for popular journalistic opinion. My only problem is paying a premium for so little when I can go elsewhere and spend less money. As it is, in the back of my head I know I'll be able to get a 5th gen V8 Camaro for the price of a loaded 128 and have equivalent power of a 135 for less money. Sure it's not as prestige a brand, but I'm not a brand freak. I'm a value minded performance enthusiast. I could really care less if the Brits and others think American cars are rubbish, I can judge that for myself. Funny though EVO lovves the new Vauxhall VRX8(Camaro's counterpart, built off the same platform).

[SCA]

Originally Posted by SSAM

I have an e90 and I LOVE IT
overall style, confort and look is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the 1 (the 1 front in my opinion is almost outdated without the Mpack)

To succeed BMW has to price it well.....just look at the Audi A3 3.2 quattro Sline....it is a fiasco...no one is buying it....for the same price you can have a nicer A4

The 135 might be my next car for 2 reasons:
-I m more into performance than look
-I don t need a big car since I m almost always alone in my car during the week for my commute to work and I m attracted by the idea of having a cheaper car that is very powerfull and agile for in town driving

BUT IF THE 135I PRICE IS TOO CLOSE TO THE 335I I `LL TAKE THE LATER ONE

I could not have said it better myself. I am in the same boat, an E90 owner wanting a back to basics BMW with incredible handling/performance and at a decent value. :biggrin:

[larryn]

Look, all I'm saying is the 1er is an entry level BMW, period. There's absolutely no shame in it, and I'm psyched that BMW listened to us that we wanted a smaller performance oriented car, albeit it's not as light as all of us would probably want. It is set to be in a certain price point. To get there, they can't use as nice of quality materials as their more expensive cars, or else they would lose money on every one of them. Size is not the only difference in going in higher series cars.

Personally, I'm getting a 135i to throw a better suspension on it, LSD in it, sticky tires, lighter wheels, and maybe an after market software upgrade, and I'm going to drive the piss out of it on the track and at autocross with a big ass smile on my face the whole while. It will be my daily driver too, after I get rid of the e90, even though I have two kids and sometimes take a client or two out. I guess I don't fit the persona of a person with responsibilities.

Btw, I'm sure Boston leather is nice, but it's a lower grade than Dakota. It won't wear as well and won't feel as nice. Nappa leather is even nicer and feels buttery and thick compared to Dakota. I have 8 year old black Vaders (Nappa) in my 332ti, and the leather is plain nice and wears like iron. The e90 330i has terra colored Dakota, and it's nice, but not anywhere near as nice as the Nappa leather, and is certainly not wearing as well. Now, sit in a 750i, feel the leather in that car. It's nicer still than Nappa. Just like leather coats. You get what you pay for. Pay more, and the leather is noticeably nicer.

[Devon K]

One thing to keep in mind from the interviews and statements BMW has put out on the 1 coupes - the car is being set up and tuned as more of a "driver's car" than the current 1 hatches. Hopefully that's not all marketing-speak, and the reviews of the coupes will be better than the Euro hatch reviews have been.

[Joop!]

Originally Posted by HH007

How can anyone say one is better than the other when you havent driven one of them???

Personally I have a 335i coupe, and there are some shortcomings that i hope get addressed with the 1, however they are two different cars addressed to two different markets.

Its like asking which is better...the civic or the accord.

Don't know how much of you people did actually drive a 1 series... But as an European I have driven both the cars (that means for the 1 series: the 3- and 5-doors hatchback).

The 1 series is definitely more the drivers-car of the two. In the past (model E46 3-series) there was a compact and the 1 series is the continuator of that model (especially the hatchback-versions), but only market-wise. Drivers-wise the car has grown up and

The current 3-series are more comfortable and the coupe is actually more a GT than a real sportscoupe the E46 coupe was.

If you want a real drivers-car you have to choose the 1 series. If you want more (sporty) comfort and luxuoury than you have to have the 3 series. The 3 series is more car for the money.

[alpini]

i currently own a 1er hatch, my brother-in-law owns a 3 series touring and i can tell you most definitely that there is absolutely NO difference in quality of the interiors. In fact, the styling of the 1er interior is much nicer in my opinion. i can't comment on leather as i have no experience of it - but believe me, i've sat in many cars supposed to be in the same class as a 1er and NONE compare to the solidity of the build and quality of the interior (that includes audi and volkswagen).

my only gripe is that i don't want to spend a lot of money on a car (the 135i) whose looks I'm not entirely satisfied with. At the moment I have really come to dislike the front profile of the 1er hatch. since the front remains relatively unchanged (apart from the bodykit), I'm not sure. The lights are just wrong and believe me, when you walk down the street towards the front of your 1er parked by the sidewalk, those lights really do look quite ugly.

european car magazines disregard the 130i hatch as being in the 'hot hatch' category, because the car is simply not hot. And my opinion is that, even though the 135i coupe may look well in the photos - these angles have been carefully selected to flatter the car.

I'm not saying I won't buy one, but you can be very sure that I'll have to examine one very carefully 'in the flesh'! I don't want to spend this kind of money and have regrets... to me styling is very important (along with build quality). I would rather have a slightly slower car that looks 'hot'. As for the 3 series, it looks more aggressive... FOR LISTENING

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by theONE

believe me, when you walk down the street towards the front of your 1er parked by the sidewalk, those lights really do look quite ugly.

Unfortunately, I can very easily believe that. I was really really hoping that they would do something with the light for the coupe.

[Joop!]

Originally Posted by theONE

i currently own a 1er hatch, my brother-in-law owns a 3 series touring and i can tell you most definitely that there is absolutely NO difference in quality of the interiors. In fact, the styling of the 1er interior is much nicer in my opinion. i can't comment on leather as i have no experience of it - but believe me, i've sat in many cars supposed to be in the same class as a 1er and NONE compare to the solidity of the build and quality of the interior (that includes audi and volkswagen).

my only gripe is that i don't want to spend a lot of money on a car (the 135i) whose looks I'm not entirely satisfied with. At the moment I have really come to dislike the front profile of the 1er hatch. since the front remains relatively unchanged (apart from the bodykit), I'm not sure. The lights are just wrong and believe me, when you walk down the street towards the front of your 1er parked by the sidewalk, those lights really do look quite ugly.

european car magazines disregard the 130i hatch as being in the 'hot hatch' category, because the car is simply not hot. And my opinion is that, even though the 135i coupe may look well in the photos - these angles have been carefully selected to flatter the car.

I'm not saying I won't buy one, but you can be very sure that I'll have to examine one very carefully 'in the flesh'! I don't want to spend this kind of money and have regrets... to me styling is very important (along with build quality). I would rather have a slightly slower car that looks 'hot'. As for the 3 series, it looks more aggressive... FOR LISTENING

In the looks-department I totally agree with you. The 1er isn't mother's prettiest. The E92 3er coupe is definitely the more handsome car.

I did a ps on the 1er coupe what the car should look when you want a different car in comparison to the hatchbackmodel on another forum (first original second quick PS):

[ibeam81]

Originally Posted by brummelenj

In the looks-department I totally agree with you. The 1er isn't mother's prettiest. The E92 3er coupe is definitely the more handsome car.

I did a ps on the 1er coupe what the car should look when you want a different car in comparison to the hatchbackmodel on another forum (first original second quick PS):

All and all, I have to agree that the E92 is prettier at least in a beauty pageant way. But I personally like the more upright stance of 135i. The 135i reminds me of the 2002 and E30, while the E92 seems more like the successor to the earlier 6 series.

It's also easy to see why the 1er's headlights are so polarizing. They are big and they stand out, but that may be why I'm okay with them. While I like the more subdued look of smaller headlights in the PS, they also seem more like the 3 series. I think that it's kind of good that the 1er is not just a smaller version of the E92. Of course, YMMV.

[Won35i]

Originally Posted by Lips

I wouldn't say better than the 3, just more in line with what the 3 series used to be in terms of size. Does that make sense? Anyways, maybe BMW should have deemed the new 3 a 4 and the new 1 a 3...I don't kno.

I completely agree!

[LonghornTX]

To me, the 1 series just looks more upright and athletic. It seems more "toned", while the 3 series looks more long and flat but also more "classicly" good looking . The 3 series I think appeals to a more mature age range, while the 1 series was IMO designed for a younger set (also those seeking a connection to the past).

Obviously there are exceptions to both of those, but to me that is the vibe I get from the two designs. Both are great cars, I just think that for me, at this point in my life, the 1 series appeals to me more. Also, with the amber corners for the US market, I think the lights looks quite a bit smaller (and better).

[ChrisK]

Let's face it, the 1 series will be BMW's German pocket rocket. These cars will get modded like no other.

I think the e90 is an incredible car, but not for me.

In my worthless opinion the 1 series carries on the spirit of the e46 M3

[Won35i]

I hate to say it but the E92 kind of reminds me of a GTO, not completely, just the front end.

[FinInk]

First of all I'd like to say that I don't own either car but plan on getting a 135i or 335i once I finish school and work for one or two years. I'm personally leaning towards the 3 series for it's look and ability to comfortably fit people in the back seats of the coupe while still holding great performance. However, if the 135i is really that much cheaper and doesn't look so bad in real life, I might reconsider.

Going by looks is all personal preference. I grew up loving MKIV Supras as a kid. I loved the big, long front, squat down look. It gave you that message that it yes it has power and potential in it and it shows too. For that reason I love the 335i coupe's big, long front and squat down look because IMO it had the image to go with the power too.

I guess it can be said for those that prefer an upright look, but to me it looks too floaty like that. That is the same reason I never got into Evo's with their upright box look although my cousin in law has an MR and I totally respect it's power especially when he pulled from 40 to 100 with little effort when there were 5 people in the car including two 200 pounders lol.

Like I said, the looks are subjective and everyone has their preferences

[Getagrip]

When I finally was able to afford a 3-series I never thought I'd be buying a 3600 lbs porker. But, I did anyway.
I am very interested in the 1er. I'd still like a four door and 4WD would be nice.

[2fast]

Depends on your definition of better. To me lighter w/ the same power train= better.

[FinInk]

Originally Posted by Eventually

Depends on your definition of better. To me lighter w/ the same power train= better.

I was thinking the same thing, but 88lb's lighter makes me think that if the price is within 5k - 6k, I'd go for the 3 series to comprosie that 88 lbs for more room and styling.

[2fast]

Originally Posted by finink

I was thinking the same thing, but 88lb's lighter makes me think that if the price is within 5k - 6k, I'd go for the 3 series to comprosie that 88 lbs for more room and styling.

Let's wait for the final specs from BMWUSA, I find it hard to believe the car will weight that much. The car's size is pretty close to e46 (slightly smaller), which has a curb weight (Unladden) of 3285Ibs (BMWUSA). If 135i is 88Ibs lighter than 335i (3571Ibs), means that it weights 3483 or almost a full 200Ibs heavier than an E46. Now I wonder where's the 3267Ibs rumor from...oh well, just gotta wait.