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      06-04-2017, 03:20 AM   #1
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ST XTA Coilovers

Anyone have track experience with these?

I purchased the E91 set knowing they had slightly higher spring rates (plan on swapping in some Swifts after I test these out at Thunderhill next week)

Basically they're KW V2s we except with:
Linear springs (front)
Front Helper springs
Out of the box camber plates

I currently have PSS9 coils and wanted to try something new.
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      06-15-2017, 04:12 PM   #2
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A friend of mine had them on his 1 before he sold them and he tracked his car regularly. Very well balanced and made his car very planted.
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      06-15-2017, 10:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsabor67 View Post
A friend of mine had them on his 1 before he sold them and he tracked his car regularly. Very well balanced and made his car very planted.
Did he have stock springs on them? Having an issue with shipping on mine right now but might want to go with some swifts once they arrive
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      07-02-2017, 09:54 PM   #4
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I have the XTAs just put them on and got corner balanced a few days ago. For the money they seem very good. I did something similar and bought convertible 1 series set so that it included the stiffer rear springs

My general opinion on a lot of suspension stuff is do some basic paper analysis and actual reviews but then just try them out. I also may consider changing the springs out at some point but you should definitely first drive on the provided stuff to see what you think and see what, if anything, needs to be improved. Suspension setups and car balance are very driver dependent. Replacing the springs before even trying the provided stuff is a waste of money IMO.

In any case I drove on them a bit around town and back from the alignment shop and they felt really good. More livable than my old clubsports felt on my e90 m3.. which is very welcome. In fact I would say the xtas, even with the harder rear springs, are similar in overall ride comfort to stock. They tend to soak up the small stuff a little better than the stock dampers, but as expected are more harsh on the big bumps at speed. As you imgine roll is dramatically reduced and along with the bushings/arms all around its a totally different car. For the money thus far I am very impressed, but I do reserve my final judgement for a track day that is coming up on the 14th.

I can give you a better review after that and FWIW other suspension parts include m3 front arms, m3 rear arms, whileline subframe bushings, stock bars. I'll be running hankook z214 (medium) r-comps, and will be at Gingerman in an advanced group. First track day for me with this car though.
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      07-03-2017, 02:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
I have the XTAs just put them on and got corner balanced a few days ago. For the money they seem very good. I did something similar and bought convertible 1 series set so that it included the stiffer rear springs

My general opinion on a lot of suspension stuff is do some basic paper analysis and actual reviews but then just try them out. I also may consider changing the springs out at some point but you should definitely first drive on the provided stuff to see what you think and see what, if anything, needs to be improved. Suspension setups and car balance are very driver dependent. Replacing the springs before even trying the provided stuff is a waste of money IMO.

In any case I drove on them a bit around town and back from the alignment shop and they felt really good. More livable than my old clubsports felt on my e90 m3.. which is very welcome. In fact I would say the xtas, even with the harder rear springs, are similar in overall ride comfort to stock. They tend to soak up the small stuff a little better than the stock dampers, but as expected are more harsh on the big bumps at speed. As you imgine roll is dramatically reduced and along with the bushings/arms all around its a totally different car. For the money thus far I am very impressed, but I do reserve my final judgement for a track day that is coming up on the 14th.

I can give you a better review after that and FWIW other suspension parts include m3 front arms, m3 rear arms, whileline subframe bushings, stock bars. I'll be running hankook z214 (medium) r-comps, and will be at Gingerman in an advanced group. First track day for me with this car though.
Awesome, I've taken the XTAs out twice to Thunderhill (once at 3mi & 2mi) - they had a lot less body roll than the PSS9 with stock XTA springs but I wouldn't mind going a bit stiffer in rear (fronts seem fine)

I may get some shorter rear springs with helpers for simple height changes from HPA.

I'm really happy with them so far, the car is a weekend and track car but I don't feel like dual adjustable coils are necessary.
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      07-03-2017, 08:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
Awesome, I've taken the XTAs out twice to Thunderhill (once at 3mi & 2mi) - they had a lot less body roll than the PSS9 with stock XTA springs but I wouldn't mind going a bit stiffer in rear (fronts seem fine)

I may get some shorter rear springs with helpers for simple height changes from HPA.

I'm really happy with them so far, the car is a weekend and track car but I don't feel like dual adjustable coils are necessary.
Ahh nice. How did they compare overall to the PSS9 on track? Those are a decent kit as well.

Also did you remove the helpers up front on your XTAs?
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      07-03-2017, 01:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
Awesome, I've taken the XTAs out twice to Thunderhill (once at 3mi & 2mi) - they had a lot less body roll than the PSS9 with stock XTA springs but I wouldn't mind going a bit stiffer in rear (fronts seem fine)

I may get some shorter rear springs with helpers for simple height changes from HPA.

I'm really happy with them so far, the car is a weekend and track car but I don't feel like dual adjustable coils are necessary.
Ahh nice. How did they compare overall to the PSS9 on track? Those are a decent kit as well.

Also did you remove the helpers up front on your XTAs?
Just blasted the top nut off and then removed the helper and moved the perch up (I LOVE the amount of threads on the strut, gives us a ton of flexibility in spring length)

Easily fit wide 255 tires up front <3
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      07-03-2017, 04:44 PM   #8
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"Easily" fit 255s up front? I have every trick in the book to maximize camber and just barely fit 255 Bridgestone RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. What size/offset wheel are you running and what tire?

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      07-03-2017, 05:15 PM   #9
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"Easily" fit 255s up front? I have every trick in the book to maximize camber and just barely fit 255 Bridgestone RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. What size/offset wheel are you running and what tire?

Mark
By "easily" I mean "barely"...

255 Federal RS-RR which run wide
About -2.5* neg camber
5mm spacers (3mm might be sufficient)
Apex Arc-8 8.5x18 ET45 in front
ST XTA w/ helpers removed (think they're 9in ~400lbs stock springs)
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      07-03-2017, 05:32 PM   #10
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Ahh yeah that makes more sense - the 8.5" wheel definitely makes it a bit easier to fit.

Nice to see some people getting some front tire under this car!

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      07-03-2017, 06:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by lowside67 View Post
Ahh yeah that makes more sense - the 8.5" wheel definitely makes it a bit easier to fit.

Nice to see some people getting some front tire under this car!

Mark
What size rims are you running?

The apex wheels are pretty great.
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      07-03-2017, 07:24 PM   #12
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Nice to hear. Thanks for the update. Spxxx you and I have very similar suspension setups! Xta stiffer with the stiffer rears and front helpers removed. Apex front helpers removed. Very similar camber, only tired differ.

I agree so far with the adjustment range. I'm actually very happy with it. One issue I had with my clubsports was that they couldn't go high enough which is not the case with the xta
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      07-03-2017, 07:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
Nice to hear. Thanks for the update. Spxxx you and I have very similar suspension setups! Xta stiffer with the stiffer rears and front helpers removed. Apex front helpers removed. Very similar camber, only tired differ.

I agree so far with the adjustment range. I'm actually very happy with it. One issue I had with my clubsports was that they couldn't go high enough which is not the case with the xta
That's awesome, how do you like the XTAs compared to the CSs? I've heard from folks that they ride similar which makes sense (KW construction, linear front springs at 400lbs, camber plates etc) except SA vs DA. For dual purpose use I don't see why anyone would buy anything else, between the KW rebate & Amazon rewards CC I used they only cost me $1200 new.

I'll probably end up getting shorter rear springs with helpers for easy swapping / adjustments. Hyperco or Swift.
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      08-07-2017, 05:40 AM   #14
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Do you have a link what springs you run in the rear?

Before changing to another coilover Setup i may try a harder spring in the rear first.
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      08-07-2017, 01:05 PM   #15
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Do you have a link what springs you run in the rear?

Before changing to another coilover Setup i may try a harder spring in the rear first.
Swift 10inch, 65mm, 672lbs

HPA has them, hit up Harold
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      08-07-2017, 01:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frontside0815 View Post
Do you have a link what springs you run in the rear?

Before changing to another coilover Setup i may try a harder spring in the rear first.
Swift 10inch, 65mm, 672lbs

HPA has them, hit up Harold
9 inch**
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      08-07-2017, 10:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
9 inch**
Thank you very much for the info saves me a bunch of digging!

I also agree on rear spring. I would guess most beginners as well as intermediate drivers will do quite well with stock xta setup (I recommend buying the convertible set since it's sprung a little stiffer in the back). Its a pretty good overall balance, shifting away from understeer while still keeping a bit of it for safer easier driving. However for the more advanced folks that want to get something closer to neutral you will likely want to change the ratios a bit either taking some from the front or adding a bit to the rear. It makes sense to do the rear since they are easier to change, ensure good travel up front, and it eliminates a slightly progressive rear spring as well.

Side note I had these out on track myself and was actually very impressed. They are a pretty nice setup overall and an absolutely phenomenal value! You are getting honest to goodness KW quality parts and damping, but just with rebound only adjustability and no fancy iconel coating on the outside of the strut tube. They even come with camber plates all ready to go. Most of the parts are straight from the clubsport setup they sell (mine even shipped from kw in Germany to boot)! I would say they are a mid-range setup for a low end price. I am a fan of konis as well but I think you would be pretty crazy to pay more for a koni single adjustable koni setup that performs similarly (my suspicion is slightly worse actually).

I do believe the higher end DA konis, or any ohlins, etc are a step up from these though. Too bad they are almost 3x the cost!!
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      08-08-2017, 11:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
9 inch**
Thank you very much for the info saves me a bunch of digging!

I also agree on rear spring. I would guess most beginners as well as intermediate drivers will do quite well with stock xta setup (I recommend buying the convertible set since it's sprung a little stiffer in the back). Its a pretty good overall balance, shifting away from understeer while still keeping a bit of it for safer easier driving. However for the more advanced folks that want to get something closer to neutral you will likely want to change the ratios a bit either taking some from the front or adding a bit to the rear. It makes sense to do the rear since they are easier to change, ensure good travel up front, and it eliminates a slightly progressive rear spring as well.

Side note I had these out on track myself and was actually very impressed. They are a pretty nice setup overall and an absolutely phenomenal value! You are getting honest to goodness KW quality parts and damping, but just with rebound only adjustability and no fancy iconel coating on the outside of the strut tube. They even come with camber plates all ready to go. Most of the parts are straight from the clubsport setup they sell (mine even shipped from kw in Germany to boot)! I would say they are a mid-range setup for a low end price. I am a fan of konis as well but I think you would be pretty crazy to pay more for a koni single adjustable koni setup that performs similarly (my suspicion is slightly worse actually).

I do believe the higher end DA konis, or any ohlins, etc are a step up from these though. Too bad they are almost 3x the cost!!
Took the words out of my mouth, I've now taken these out to Laguna, Thunderhill East/West and am pretty shocked at their performance for the price. I really need stiffer RSFB now with the 672lbs springs in back thought, also want to do the spherical front control arm bushings.

Between the June rebate and using an Amazon CC 5% back they came to about $1200 which is incredible for basically a SA ClubSport. These are built right alongside the KW V3s and are actually stiffer up front than a V3.

Really don't know why these aren't the go-to coilover for dual duty cars. Throw a swift spring in back and you have a great track capable setup for sub-$1500
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      08-09-2017, 02:35 AM   #19
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Thanks spxx.
Wrote Harold. Will try changing the springs, excited to see how it will Change the dynamic.
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      08-09-2017, 04:57 PM   #20
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Really don't know why these aren't the go-to coilover for dual duty cars. Throw a swift spring in back and you have a great track capable setup for sub-$1500
This is the million dollar question. Seems ST/KW don't really attempt to do much marketing on them is my guess. They are just fairly unknown. FWIW I also don't know of any distributor that has the XTA in US stock so maybe that plays a part as well? People want their suspension right away?!

Now on to a sort of unrelated fun fact about this whole ST/KW thing:
I have a buddy with an LS powered 350z that I track with. He has been on OTS Koni Yellows and swift springs for a while. They ride pretty well, and do a reasonably good job on the track too, he paid maybe $1000-1200 for the whole setup I believe.
2 years later he decides to switch to R-Comps so he was looking to increase his spring rate a bit and it turns out he would need the Konis revalved as he was at the top of his adjustment range. So he started looking at getting new springs + revalving his Konis, and it starts to get a little pricey. Instead he considers getting a whole new setup that's actually a coilover and sees good reviews on KW for his car so starts his searches there. Well enough searching and we find that STs are essentially a value KW. But we don't like the spring choices for his car. Then we find Greddy (yea the JDM parts guys) spec and rebrand KW/ST for his car as well!!! And in this case Greddy creates a coilover set that is essentially an XTA but they do a much better job of going through the ST/KW parts bin and spec higher rated springs and valving that's suited to his setup and track work. We looked up and down for *anyone* running the Greddy/ST/KW setup on a 350z and come up empty handed. He ended up taking a risk and bought them (for something stupid cheap like $1200 since he had a hookup).
What do you know... they come straight from KW in Germany like my XTAs did but are colored purple and yellow or whatever Greddy's colors are and come in a Greddy branded box. He swaps them on and calls me telling me they work better both on and off-track! So instead of paying like $800 to revalve and spring what he had, he pays $1200 and gets a brand new set of suspension with true height adjust-ability, spherical mounts, the spring/damping combo he wants, and prefers the ride quality and performance over the Koni setup he had!
Of course now he can make a bunch of his money back by selling his koni setup. In the end he pays WAYYY less to upgrade, and gets more performance.

This is my guess about the whole KW/ST/Greddy/(are there others???) love triangle thing:
KW company starts out by designing and manufacturing a good medium to medium-high performance damper. They spend a bunch of $$ on R&D, tooling, marketing, etc. and establish for themselves a very good name.

However the high end market ultimately just isn't *that* big. The R&D and tooling on this stuff has already been paid for and thus the margins are actually quite high. They start eyeing the mid-range and low-end market and realize that with some tweaks here and there they figure they can sell in higher volumes, make a little less margin and still be happy with overall ROI... BUT they need to protect the KW name, and need to prevent market overlap and cannibalization of a higher end product by a mid-range product. So they decide to make a sub-brand. Create the Toyota, when they started with Lexus if you will. Hence they enter the low/mid-range markets under a different name such as ST and appears, under some form of contract, they are also brand labeling with other established entities such as Greddy. This is all just a theory, but very interesting when you look at the data anyways.
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      08-09-2017, 11:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by spxxx View Post
Really don't know why these aren't the go-to coilover for dual duty cars. Throw a swift spring in back and you have a great track capable setup for sub-$1500
This is the million dollar question. Seems ST/KW don't really attempt to do much marketing on them is my guess. They are just fairly unknown. FWIW I also don't know of any distributor that has the XTA in US stock so maybe that plays a part as well? People want their suspension right away?!

Now on to a sort of unrelated fun fact about this whole ST/KW thing:
I have a buddy with an LS powered 350z that I track with. He has been on OTS Koni Yellows and swift springs for a while. They ride pretty well, and do a reasonably good job on the track too, he paid maybe $1000-1200 for the whole setup I believe.
2 years later he decides to switch to R-Comps so he was looking to increase his spring rate a bit and it turns out he would need the Konis revalved as he was at the top of his adjustment range. So he started looking at getting new springs + revalving his Konis, and it starts to get a little pricey. Instead he considers getting a whole new setup that's actually a coilover and sees good reviews on KW for his car so starts his searches there. Well enough searching and we find that STs are essentially a value KW. But we don't like the spring choices for his car. Then we find Greddy (yea the JDM parts guys) spec and rebrand KW/ST for his car as well!!! And in this case Greddy creates a coilover set that is essentially an XTA but they do a much better job of going through the ST/KW parts bin and spec higher rated springs and valving that's suited to his setup and track work. We looked up and down for *anyone* running the Greddy/ST/KW setup on a 350z and come up empty handed. He ended up taking a risk and bought them (for something stupid cheap like $1200 since he had a hookup).
What do you know... they come straight from KW in Germany like my XTAs did but are colored purple and yellow or whatever Greddy's colors are and come in a Greddy branded box. He swaps them on and calls me telling me they work better both on and off-track! So instead of paying like $800 to revalve and spring what he had, he pays $1200 and gets a brand new set of suspension with true height adjust-ability, spherical mounts, the spring/damping combo he wants, and prefers the ride quality and performance over the Koni setup he had!
Of course now he can make a bunch of his money back by selling his koni setup. In the end he pays WAYYY less to upgrade, and gets more performance.

This is my guess about the whole KW/ST/Greddy/(are there others???) love triangle thing:
KW company starts out by designing and manufacturing a good medium to medium-high performance damper. They spend a bunch of $$ on R&D, tooling, marketing, etc. and establish for themselves a very good name.

However the high end market ultimately just isn't *that* big. The R&D and tooling on this stuff has already been paid for and thus the margins are actually quite high. They start eyeing the mid-range and low-end market and realize that with some tweaks here and there they figure they can sell in higher volumes, make a little less margin and still be happy with overall ROI... BUT they need to protect the KW name, and need to prevent market overlap and cannibalization of a higher end product by a mid-range product. So they decide to make a sub-brand. Create the Toyota, when they started with Lexus if you will. Hence they enter the low/mid-range markets under a different name such as ST and appears, under some form of contract, they are also brand labeling with other established entities such as Greddy. This is all just a theory, but very interesting when you look at the data anyways.
This is exactly what I was suspecting, the XTA is close to V3 performance for half the price - if they put some money into marketing these as performance coilovers there would be some serious cannibalization of their high end products. A DA ST XTA option would be great... I think that the E90/92/82 market is just moving downstream towards cheaper options as the cars are in the Sub-$10k range and most folks aren't looking for high end track coilovers (or anything above $1k). There will always be the group who chose this platform as a track-only car and need high end stuff and I think you're exactly right, KW is trying to keep the brand-name pure by relabeling and making slightly lower margins on midrange struts.

On another note, does anyone know if STXTA camber plates will mount up to KWV3 struts?
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      05-01-2022, 09:14 PM   #22
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Swift 10inch, 65mm, 672lbs

HPA has them, hit up Harold
Did u ended up changing your rear spring?if u did how was it it?
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