When performance 1 comes out which do you choose?

[BMW Dreamer]

I'll stick with the 135i the way it is now.

[BMW Dreamer]

My brother wants a small BMW with a high reving 4 cylinder. He use to drive old Bimmers with 4 bangers and he said they are some of the best engines ever made.

[Redline]

i'm hoping bmw won't give me a choice.

Its either going to be a M135i...with 355hp....and racing suspension and all that carbon fiber stuff.

Or give us a 1 series with tt4.

Don't make me pick..cause it will be too hard.

[hellrotm]

There isn't going to be a M version 1-series. Just a 135i tii and 335 tii.

Read this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...ontent-block=0

BMW chief Norbert Reithofer has already ruled out the rumored M1.

And there is a new 1-series coming in late 2011, dubbed F20.

Quote
"BMW chief Norbert Reithofer has confirmed to CAR Online that a range of tii performance options will be launched soon on the company's smaller models. He has finally ruled out a rumoured M1 version of the 1-series and said the tii spec would be the most performance-oriented model, claiming the the twin-turbo 135i was quite fast enough (it does 0-62mph in 5.3sec, after all)."

"However, BMW plans for the tii models to be proper performance cars in the longer run. For instance, the next-gen 1-series, dubbed F20 and due in late 2011, will offer a tii version with a downsized twin-turbo four-cylinder petrol engine and a radically lighter body and chassis, we hear."

[TagMan]

Good post, slickone!

So, some of us may keep our current 1-Series for only three years!!

[Redline]

Great post ^

This clears up alot for me.

So what will the 335tii have? quad turbo? 355hp?

If the article you posted is true..the more expensive model gets a 4cylinder tt....:iono:

[fourcylsgood]

I would be happy with the 320si engine and a carbon fibre roof on the E82 chassis. So if BMW does eventually bring a 4-cyl, that'll likely be my choice.

[Endgame]

While no comparison to BMW, it would be similar to what Mazda did with the Mazda 6 and the Mazdaspeed 6. The 6 had a V6 while the Mazdaspeed had the turbo 4 and AWD.

I am sure BMW will justify the tii spec being at the top of the food chain for the 1 series some how. Just as the MS6 had AWD over the other models, the 1tii will no doubt be MUCH lighter. Then again, I would not be surprised to see BMW drop the 6TT from the 1 series completely....

The 1tii would need to be weigh in at 3000-3100 max as it sounds like the 370z will have 350HP and weigh 3020, or something like that. This 1tii should target the Cayman S, just as the Z did. If it looked like a baby M3 to boot, I would be to 80% of deal closure.

[mtla4]

How about a compromise 5 cyl is where its at. :wink:

[looking]

Originally Posted by slickone

There isn't going to be a M version 1-series. Just a 135i tii and 335 tii.

Read this: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...ontent-block=0

BMW chief Norbert Reithofer has already ruled out the rumored M1.

And there is a new 1-series coming in late 2011, dubbed F20.

Quote
"BMW chief Norbert Reithofer has confirmed to CAR Online that a range of tii performance options will be launched soon on the company's smaller models. He has finally ruled out a rumoured M1 version of the 1-series and said the tii spec would be the most performance-oriented model, claiming the the twin-turbo 135i was quite fast enough (it does 0-62mph in 5.3sec, after all)."

"However, BMW plans for the tii models to be proper performance cars in the longer run. For instance, the next-gen 1-series, dubbed F20 and due in late 2011, will offer a tii version with a downsized twin-turbo four-cylinder petrol engine and a radically lighter body and chassis, we hear."

Great sutff. I don't know why people keep talking about the M1 being the performance version of the 1 - that name belongs to an existing model in the BMW stable. The Tii is going to be the equivalent of a M tuned car. This is a great example of how well BMW marketing has sucked buyers in, just because it's not a M people think it's not going to be a performance BMW.

The great news is that BMW is starting to think lightweight and not just hp! not that hp is a bad thing! haha

[hector]

Originally Posted by aesthetect

...the driving dynamic and characteristic of a 1 series that had the potential to have SIGNIFICANTLY reduced weight and very very well balanced chassis...im an avid energy and environmental technology supporter and researcher, it's what i DO. i'm here, so i'm obviously a car fanatic, but i don't want to trade fuel economy for MORE power than i can actually use. but wait, the hypocrisy goes deeper.. i love me some good ol low end torque, who doesnt? but i've made peace with that. you cant have everything. and being able to chug around in low rpm in a 4 cyl and save gas and then the fun of downshifting to pass or liven up a turn is for me. i just want that in the lightest 4 seater, rwd car i can. efficient dynamics baby...

!

there's not enough room on the page to reward your post with all the "thumbs up" that it deserves! bravo!. indeed there is more to "driving fun", as good as it does feel, than torque, torque and more torque. we're all gonna have to 'make peace' with certain realities very soon so it's refreshing to see someone express so well that that "peace" is not so awful.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by excel

Great sutff. I don't know why people keep talking about the M1 being the performance version of the 1 - that name belongs to an existing model in the BMW stable. The Tii is going to be the equivalent of a M tuned car. This is a great example of how well BMW marketing has sucked buyers in, just because it's not a M people think it's not going to be a performance BMW.

The great news is that BMW is starting to think lightweight and not just hp! not that hp is a bad thing! haha

Im with aesthetect also
People are so stuck up on the 0-60.I do understand that the Americans love big engines,big cars,drag racing, Nascar. By the way Formula 1 went from V12 TO V10 TO V8s(track times are better then ever. I almost fell asleep while test driving the 335I(it was only fast thats it). In Europe there are so much twisties,hills that you need different dynamics. People are still stuck with the hatch=econobox mentality(who cares if the guy next door thinks youre broke). The are a lot of hot hatches and exciting diesel cars in Europe(i.e Clio V6, Focus, Mondeo,Astra VXR) I really hope that fuel cost will bring a change in the way North American think about cars. Hell Mexico has some nice cars(Audi S3) Nothing affordable is really exciting on the market right now. I went with the 1 only because it seemed like a small nimble car. However its is not the Bmw 2002 were far from it very far . Still a bit too heavy too much options. I understand that the buyers wants equipement but everything is becoming safer and tasteless. The 135 is shorter than a civic yet way heavier. Maybe the rise of fuel cost will bring cars weight down a bit. A nice 2.5 inline 6(323I engine in Canada) with turbos should have been enough. My rant

[Andres G]

If you'd ask me... I would not want more HP or Torque, I want bigger brakes and lighter shell.

I don't think there's the need for an M135, but rather a CSL one!

[aesthetect]

Originally Posted by Endgame

The 1tii would need to be weigh in at 3000-3100 max as it sounds like the 370z will have 350HP and weigh 3020, or something like that. This 1tii should target the Cayman S, just as the Z did. If it looked like a baby M3 to boot, I would be to 80% of deal closure.

i know its being greedy, but honestly i hope its under 3000lbs. and it sure as shit better be if we're really talking that this is going to be the most expensive 1 series (>M135$). i'd prefer they compromise some creature comforts to reduce weight in addition to pricey materials and fancy chassis engineering and try to keep it somewhat reasonably priced

[Redline]

people keep talking about m135i.

didn't the other guy just say there will only be Tii versions of 135 and 335??

[Matt60158]

I have to see the dyno curves to make a decision before I can give the nod to the 4 cyl weight advantage. Peak numbers don't matter to me, I care about area under the curve.

[whya1?]

I have driven both the 135 and the 335 and both are pretty uninvolving/boring unless you really push it. And if you really push it you are doing something extremely illegal that will result in either losing a license or a serious crash if you F' up. They are great cars to dodge throw traffic like a maniac with all that torque but other than that? Eh..

I would gladly sacrifice 100hp for 700lbs of mass. 200hp/200ft lbs and 2800 lbs would be great for everyday use and plenty fast. You could also no doubt increase fuel economy 20% as well. Plus you would get real improvements in handling and steering feel. Think heavy lotus. A high revving RX-8 style engine would be great too but that is too narrow of a enthusiast market. You need a bit of torque to still bring in Joe 6pack.

Depending on how much weight people can pull out of a 1 series I might be tempted to get a 128 and strip it a bit. Unfortunately due to the heavy 3 series chassis you probably are not going to get a sub 3000 car unless you do drastic things like a fully gutted interior.

[ARES45]

I think a lightweight version with a small turbine engine would be perfect for me and satisfy all you high revving guys. What does Jet A run a gallon?

I actually have the perfect car for me right now so I was just bored.

[looking]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Im with aesthetect also
People are so stuck up on the 0-60.I do understand that the Americans love big engines,big cars,drag racing, Nascar. By the way Formula 1 went from V12 TO V10 TO V8s(track times are better then ever. I almost fell asleep while test driving the 335I(it was only fast thats it). In Europe there are so much twisties,hills that you need different dynamics. People are still stuck with the hatch=econobox mentality(who cares if the guy next door thinks youre broke). The are a lot of hot hatches and exciting diesel cars in Europe(i.e Clio V6, Focus, Mondeo,Astra VXR) I really hope that fuel cost will bring a change in the way North American think about cars. Hell Mexico has some nice cars(Audi S3) Nothing affordable is really exciting on the market right now. I went with the 1 only because it seemed like a small nimble car. However its is not the Bmw 2002 were far from it very far . Still a bit too heavy too much options. I understand that the buyers wants equipement but everything is becoming safer and tasteless. The 135 is shorter than a civic yet way heavier. Maybe the rise of fuel cost will bring cars weight down a bit. A nice 2.5 inline 6(323I engine in Canada) with turbos should have been enough. My rant

I think we're all are agreeing with the same thing...hp isn't everything. Also, I think you're spot on about the lack having an interesting small car in NA. I think there's a # of reasons for this - the NA market always has focused on hp, mainly because gas was/is cheap and our roads are all very straight. Now with gas prices going up and the emission standards raising in the world, car manufactures have no choice but, to go small and try to put as much performance into a smaller package.

[Neo187H]

Originally Posted by whya1?

I have driven both the 135 and the 335 and both are pretty uninvolving/boring unless you really push it. And if you really push it you are doing something extremely illegal that will result in either losing a license or a serious crash if you F' up. They are great cars to dodge throw traffic like a maniac with all that torque but other than that? Eh..

I would gladly sacrifice 100hp for 700lbs of mass. 200hp/200ft lbs and 2800 lbs would be great for everyday use and plenty fast. You could also no doubt increase fuel economy 20% as well. Plus you would get real improvements in handling and steering feel. Think heavy lotus. A high revving RX-8 style engine would be great too but that is too narrow of a enthusiast market. You need a bit of torque to still bring in Joe 6pack.

Depending on how much weight people can pull out of a 1 series I might be tempted to get a 128 and strip it a bit. Unfortunately due to the heavy 3 series chassis you probably are not going to get a sub 3000 car unless you do drastic things like a fully gutted interior.

a 200hp 2800 lb car is a slow car, a lotus at 190 HP and 1800lbs is slightly slower than a 135i in the 1/4. Now add 50% more weight to that lotus... You get a civic Si which runs the 1/4 mile at about 16 flat. granted the Si only has 140 Tq and 190 HP but your not going to get 200 Tq and 200 HP from a 4 cyl, more like 200 HP and 160 Tq.

Edit: lotus is slightly quicker in the1/4 mile than the 135i.

[Dan203]

My PT Cruiser GT has 230hp and 245tq with a curb weight of about 3300lbs and it's nowhere near as fast as the 135i. Even if I removed the back seats (which is easy to do) and the spare tire to save a couple hundred lbs it still wouldn't be competitive. Like Neo said it takes a significant weight decrease to make a low HP engine perform as well as what's in the current 135i. (like the Lotus or Atom)

Dan

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by Neo187H

a 200hp 2800 lb car is a slow car, a lotus at 190 HP and 1800lbs is slightly slower than a 135i in the 1/4. Now add 50% more weight to that lotus... You get a civic Si which runs the 1/4 mile at about 16 flat. granted the Si only has 140 Tq and 190 HP but your not going to get 200 Tq and 200 HP from a 4 cyl, more like 200 HP and 160 Tq.

Edit: lotus is slightly quicker in the1/4 mile than the 135i.

16 for a civic Si the driver has to suck major donkey balls. I used to run mid 14s all day with my old rsx-s(1-2002--1-2003) same engine(Just an Injen CAI and the other one AEM CAI). The vw 2.0T runs about the same high 13's with an upgraded software. The Solstice GXP(Cavalier SS) rocks 260 hp, Mazdaspeed 260. Bmw can certainly do it. Like we said get rid of the luxury junk. People want luxury than get a 3 series.