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      04-07-2008, 08:53 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
Firstly, BMW NA isn't giving us much mark up to begin with on 1er's. It's actually laughable.

Depends on availability. If your local center has only one allocation, well, it's very easy to assume little or no flexibility. If they have one in stock and it's been in stock from when they first came out, I can see some flexibility, but I can't speak for other BMW centers.

If the center has the only one in the whole region or country in the color combo and configuration you want, why would there be any justification to discount such a car? Being nice can only go so far. :wink:
I'm ashamed to say I only got a few hundred knocked off msrp. I made the rest up by drinking several cappuccino's. Honestly, I told him I would argue for more discount except the fact that whenever she brings our 325i in for service she says they treat her like a queen. If not for that, I would've played hard ball... no, really.:wink: Oh, I also got the production number tonight.
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      04-07-2008, 09:12 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Motorsports_3 View Post
Wow, can you check if my car is in the system, sorry to go off topic.


Robert,
I dont know why so many people are hating. I wish I could of gotten this deal, but I didnt think of it. I dont sweat it, but on my next car will definatly do this. Congrats again. And it is smart that you havent given the dealer you got it from. I caught on to that earlier in the thread.
Who's hating? Hopefully, you're not referring to me. I'm just skeptical, that's all, especially when some centers don't even have allocations and can't even get in on the fun.
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      04-07-2008, 09:38 PM   #91
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Where is the West Coast Performance Center?
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      04-07-2008, 10:48 PM   #92
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No it wasnt you. You can look through the thread and it is clear. I actually think you are trying to help, and find that cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
Who's hating? Hopefully, you're not referring to me. I'm just skeptical, that's all, especially when some centers don't even have allocations and can't even get in on the fun.
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      04-07-2008, 11:55 PM   #93
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Adrian, you can check witch dealers have available allocations??
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      04-08-2008, 12:48 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert.payne View Post
Through USAA (own bank). BMW was willing to offer great financing rates on the 3 series, but not on the 1er.
just fyi - Pentagon Federal CU has just dropped their rate to 4.25% - https://www.penfed.org/productsAndRa...wAutoLoans.asp , https://www.penfed.org/howToJoin/overview.asp

Congrats on the great deal. :w00t: Hope Adrian's skepticism turns out not to be applicable in this case and you do, in fact, get an order number posthaste.
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      04-08-2008, 11:06 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by robert.payne View Post
Hey, does this mean that I'm currently the only person in the world who has a BSM w/ Lemon on order? :biggrin:

-robert
No, it means that you're one of the few to have successfully negotiated a great deal without getting a production number and confirmed order from the jump. I'm reserving my kudos until I see it on order.

If the order is confirmed and you get a production number, then yes, you'd be the only one with BSM/Lemon on order, but there's a very small handfull of cars out west that are JB/Lemon. No BSM's.
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      04-08-2008, 11:08 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by WishBone33 View Post
Adrian, you can check witch dealers have available allocations??
Yes, of course. That's why I'm the only skeptic on this thread because I see what everybody else doesn't see.
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      04-08-2008, 11:30 AM   #97
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I just read through this whole thread and two posts stood out to me. The first was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian's bmw
Firstly, BMW NA isn't giving us much mark up to begin with on 1er's. It's actually laughable.
Now, not being a salesman myself or having any reliable connections to the dealerships, I have no idea what the margins are. But this line has been used again and again by salesmen and nearly every time it isn't true. Like I said, you could be correct but you will get killed walking into dealerships if you accept these sorts of statements.

But the most interesting post, to me, was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by young1er View Post
While I do sell vehicles for $800 over invoice and I will meet a customer's needs and be polite and respectful, but when confronted like this I feel that most salesmen would get a little offended.
"Get a little offended?" That statement highlights a major problem that buyers have when going to purchase a car. The salesman is NOT your friend! The salesman has done you no favors. Why should we be concerned if the salesman gets offended? I don't understand how so many people have been forced into these submissive states where they actually think that the salesman is their long lost buddy. Business is business. If a salesman got "offended" because I made a reasonable offer, I would walk away immediately.

I really like what Robert has done here. Smart way to do business.
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      04-08-2008, 11:51 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post
No, it means that you're one of the few to have successfully negotiated a great deal without getting a production number and confirmed order from the jump. I'm reserving my kudos until I see it on order.

If the order is confirmed and you get a production number, then yes, you'd be the only one with BSM/Lemon on order, but there's a very small handfull of cars out west that are JB/Lemon. No BSM's.
+1 to this.. I have the same abilty to view and i just checked using the same method (1040am) and i see nothing as of yet.. If they had an allocation i would of expected to see it long ago..

Ill lurk on here till i see different..

By the way.. to the OP, you dont need to talk to you c.a.. any of the c.a's or better yet the s.m can give you what you need.
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      04-08-2008, 01:09 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower View Post
But the most interesting post, to me, was this:

"Get a little offended?" That statement highlights a major problem that buyers have when going to purchase a car. The salesman is NOT your friend! The salesman has done you no favors. Why should we be concerned if the salesman gets offended? I don't understand how so many people have been forced into these submissive states where they actually think that the salesman is their long lost buddy. Business is business. If a salesman got "offended" because I made a reasonable offer, I would walk away immediately.

I really like what Robert has done here. Smart way to do business.

And that right there is the problem. When I do business with people I tend to develop more of a relationship with them. Business made more personal. It assures that they will keep coming back to me for future needs. I am still a person and shouldn't be treated like a tool. AND this offer IS NOT resonable. Someone already stated that these cars are in high demand and turning down $800 over invoice is not a big deal because someone else will walk in willing to pay MSRP. Also, you would see in my statement that I am NOT A CAR SALESMAN. I sell commercial vehicles and was merely giving my opinion on the issue.

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      04-08-2008, 01:10 PM   #100
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Robert

Excellent approach, I did the same thing when I bought my 540 (but with a smaller 'net' of dealers) and it worked great.

:thumbup:
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      04-08-2008, 01:13 PM   #101
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Production Number says WHAT???
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      04-08-2008, 01:50 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower View Post
I just read through this whole thread and two posts stood out to me. The first was this:

Now, not being a salesman myself or having any reliable connections to the dealerships, I have no idea what the margins are. But this line has been used again and again by salesmen and nearly every time it isn't true. Like I said, you could be correct but you will get killed walking into dealerships if you accept these sorts of statements.
Historically, it's true. I've been with BMW since 2000 and remember what the margins were like then compared to now and how they've progressively shrunk. BMW NA has compressed margins for BMW's from what they used to be. Really, they've raised invoices more than they have MSRP's. I'm not making that statement to ruffle any feathers. Call it what you want, I call it value pricing. Look no further than Mini. Who's getting thousands off on Mini's? No one. Who's negotiating $1k over invoice deals on these cars? No one. I'd estimate that over 95% of all Mini's sell for MSRP. There's hardly any margin in those Mini's to justify huge or even modest discounts. The 1 Series is going in the direction of Mini pricing, IMO. I could be wrong. I sometimes can be. But are Mini buyer's "getting killed walking into dealerships with this kind of 'margin' statement" paying MSRP? No, they're just paying the price and moving on.

I'm not arguing for higher or lower margins. That's taking away from the spirit of the OP's thread. The jist of this thread is that the OP jumped in his arm chair, point and clicked, and used the Rizzo method, just like other people have done for other BMW models. Nothing really novel or new about this method or approach.

The issue I have is that it's been taken like gospel that he's gotten this deal but has yet to produce evidence of commitment and an actual order from the center that's supposedly ordered this car for him. I actually feel bad because clients shouldn't be strung along like this. I have an ethical problem with a center who say's they're going to do one thing, but don't deliver, or overpromise and underdeliver. It's been since Friday and I'm not seeing an order in the system still. If you're going to low ball the market, have the cajones to back up what you say you're gonna do. Don't take a coveted, prospective buyer out of the market with an empty promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPower View Post

But the most interesting post, to me, was this:

"Get a little offended?" That statement highlights a major problem that buyers have when going to purchase a car. The salesman is NOT your friend! The salesman has done you no favors. Why should we be concerned if the salesman gets offended? I don't understand how so many people have been forced into these submissive states where they actually think that the salesman is their long lost buddy. Business is business. If a salesman got "offended" because I made a reasonable offer, I would walk away immediately.

I really like what Robert has done here. Smart way to do business.
There's a difference in being amused and being offended. If a CA takes offense to a low offer, they shouldn't be helping people get cars. Just take in stride and be nice. Negotiation is better than not having no negotiation at all.

Submissive state for the long lost buddy. That's a good one. There's going to be some clients who love their CA so much, have a great, friendly, and fun business relationship, and want to continue doing business with them. That "submissive state" is actually the desire to do business with a certain individual and some clients will go through great lengths and expense to give that CA the business. For some clients, it's not a transactional purchase and it's more about the relationship, reputation and service and 'who' they're buying from more than just price. Everybody's different and I respect anyone's point of view who thinks otherwise.
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      04-08-2008, 02:00 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by 0002s View Post
Production Number says WHAT???
The production number is the precursor to the VIN. It's the DNA for the order.

No DNA, no offspring.
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      04-08-2008, 02:19 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert.payne View Post
I really should specify that I have two local dealers, Tom Bush Regency and Tom Bush Orange Park. Obviously part of the same family.

Regency told me that I was making an unreasonable offer and would not consider anything below MSRP since they were able to pre-sell most cars at sticker price. However, Orange Park immediately counter-offered $1500 off MSRP. Not too shabby, just not the deal I was trying to make.

My point is, if you are around the Jax, FL region, I'd recommend dealing with Tom Bush Orange Park.

-robert
I probably would have settled for the deal with Orange Park just out of sheer convenience/lazyness, but you did great I must say.

Where I live it's a bit tougher...only about 6 or 7 dealers within ~200 miles radius of home. Most people consider getting on a flight or taking a several hour car ride just to buy a car to be a huge pain in the ass, but you've clearly demonstrated it can save you money.:thumbup:
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      04-08-2008, 02:36 PM   #105
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Don't forget he's doing PCD so wherever he purchases the car, pickup will be in SC. I was considering something similar to Robert's plan except focusing on mid-west/great lakes states instead of the south east. As long as the pickup is in SC, it's all the same to me.
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      04-08-2008, 02:39 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx View Post
I probably would have settled for the deal with Orange Park just out of sheer convenience/lazyness, but you did great I must say.

Where I live it's a bit tougher...only about 6 or 7 dealers within ~200 miles radius of home. Most people consider getting on a flight or taking a several hour car ride just to buy a car to be a huge pain in the ass, but you've clearly demonstrated it can save you money.:thumbup:
Brandon, the OP was doing a Performance Center Delivery so it really did not matter who sold him the car...He would have had to find his way to SC to pick up the vehicle anyway.
You could also buy from the OP's dealer and get the same deal (if he would share that specific info) if you were doing the Performance Center delivery. The travel expense to get the car would be a moot point.
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      04-08-2008, 02:59 PM   #107
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Yes, but would have Orange Park placed the order and gave him a prod # at their offer? Who knows...
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      04-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #108
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The "Payne Method" rocks !!

So here's my update. After being told by a couple dealers in my vicinity that no way in heck I could get a 135i for under MSRP, I read Robert's post a couple days ago about what I'm calling the "Payne Method." Decided to give it a shot. Nothing to lose, right?

However, because I don't want to drive my car home from south Carolina to California, I just sent my email/FAX out to 14 dealers within 100 miles of my home. About half didn't respond. a couple said "good luck getting THAT price," and countered at MSRP. A few countered below MSRP, at anything from $500 to $1900 below MSRP. One dealer accepted my offer at $2500 below MSRP. Yeah, I know, not as aggressive as Robert's $2750 below, but how can one hope to match the master on the first try?

Anyway, the OTHER great news is that the car goes into production next WEEK with late May target delivery!
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      04-08-2008, 04:13 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian's bmw View Post


There's a difference in being amused and being offended. If a CA takes offense to a low offer, they shouldn't be helping people get cars. Just take in stride and be nice. Negotiation is better than not having no negotiation at all.
I think he was getting "offended" from my statement earlier. I wasn't really referring to the low offer being offensive more the method. Just throwing tons of offers out and almost "telling" the salesman what to do. It's almost like customers getting spam mail from a dealer, but in reverse. It is kinda amusing in that sense though. IDK offended prob isn't the right word.

After thinking about it more. I am kinda mixed on my opinion of this method, but I do feel that it is detached and lacks the more personal experience that I enjoy with my CA and the rest of the staff at the dealership and when I am making a sale myself in my line of work. I've been out there a number of times since my order and it is a comfortable, friendly atmosphere where i like to be.

:iono:
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      04-08-2008, 04:57 PM   #110
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You know - this thread had all the earmarks of one that could have gone sideways in a hurry. Thanks to all of you for intelligent, adult, discussion of the issues.
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