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      03-13-2017, 10:43 AM   #23
nachob
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Sometimes it's not
The owners choice. If someone runs into their bumper and their insurance pays to repainted it goes on the report. 2 cents
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      03-13-2017, 04:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nkc View Post
I'm guessing that he felt it was over priced and low balled previous opportunities too. After seeing prices rise and less and less opportunities showing up, he continues to low ball ahem "solid offer" a great example.

This is exactly how I feel about E39 M5s and I still don't own one. Mad AF.
Now the M2 has been out for a while, the hope for the price of 1M to drop especially for a low mileage one is not going to happen as indicated by the market pricing. I see a 2012 Fire Orange E92 M3 selling for $49K, this car when new was closed to $90K. The price/status of 1M I believe in my humble opinion has been confirmed by the market.

3 months ago I was at the dealer and the service adviser told me that BMW Canada told them the 1M will be a $100k car in a few years. Take that with a grain of salt, but I am just happy that it holds its original value.
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      03-13-2017, 06:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca335 View Post
3 months ago I was at the dealer and the service adviser told me that BMW Canada told them the 1M will be a $100k car in a few years. Take that with a grain of salt, but I am just happy that it holds its original value.
I can see that.

In CAD of course...
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      03-14-2017, 08:52 AM   #26
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He can offer whatever he wants, and if he gets it, that's good for him, no hate there at all, but a quick look at his past threads, he had 2 opportunities to buy a 1M at a great deal but he choose to pass. Now he's trying to justify offering 20k less than the asking price of the dealer because of a $700 claim? I don't get that, I also don't understand why anyone would pay insurance and then pay out of pocket to cover an accident so the next owner has no idea that the car has been in a slight accident, all this so one can later resale the car as "No accident" to a unsuspecting buyer.

All sounds really shady to me and tells me something about his character, and Shroom seems to agree with that kind of thinking, and would offer 10k off the asking price OR MORE, I bet he wouldn't take that hit himself, hypocritical I think... This is why I have trust issues lol.
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      03-14-2017, 10:27 AM   #27
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IZSL07L,


What's shady about buying right? Nothing shady about having a budget and a price point.

In regards to the claim.. I'm not responding to the point of the seller with my comments, I'm responding from the point of the buyer...a point which your being defensive (about the car you didn't sell?) has confused for you.

In the states, when you have an accident and get a repair, most people, not all, but most have a deductible. This means that when you get in an accident, or use your insurance for another person hitting you, you have to pay out of pocket an ammount to get a repair. Usually this ranges from 500 to several thousands in order to drop monthly payments. A 700 dollar claim is almost ridiculous to use as it could 1) raise your premiums 2) get you dropped from carrier if you are a repeat offender 3) not be worth it because you would pay 500 to get 200 and ALSO have a claim on file for a silly bumper. I have to ask why someone would do that for such a minor minor repair.
So, as a smart buyer looking at a car priced 50% higher than retail, 6 years old, and with accident history I have to do my due diligence and over verify the integrity of the car. In addition, I now inherit the accident history in addition to adding an owner to it's history with the purchase. To me or anyone else not wanting that, I'm making an offer that's worth all that additional risk. Nothing bad about that at all. It's a free market and for him it may be a solid offer. not sure why you jumped all over his solid offer comment unless you are the dealer trying to sell the car.

That's it.
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      03-14-2017, 10:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroom View Post
Yeah, that 's a lowball offer on a non accident car for sure, but for potential buyer( U.S and across the country).. low miles are hardly everything. It's an accident car though, and those need to be over vetted to ensure they are ok. Thats energy and risk costs. From a potential buyers mind.. why have an accident claim for only 700.00? Wouldn't you just pay that out of pocket and avoid the ding on the resale? I mean, a deductible is usually way more than that. That begs me to think the accident was worse than reported and they guy paid cash and paid the residual 700.00 to ease the appearance. Total speculation on my part though. I would not be insulted by low offers. Not everyone wants to assume the risk and that's ok. No matter how slight the damage..I'm knocking off at least 10k from peak market price of any offer I would submit too. Damaged goods.
I had a door ding taken out of my VW a month ago and the guy had just finished doing a Bentley where the owner opted to pay $14k (!) in dent removals himself as opposed to submitting it through his insurance....

A $700 claim is also suspicious to me since most deductibles are $500. It's kind of like how dealers are not obligated to tell you if a new car has had more than $500 in repairs, but they'll repaint half a car for $499 somehow. I've seen this car listed several times which also makes me think something is up with it.
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      03-14-2017, 10:30 AM   #29
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The fact that this thread is discussing the accident history is the reason I would never buy a car like a 1M (with the purpose of holding onto it for appreciation) with one.
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      03-14-2017, 10:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etr2016 View Post
I had a door ding taken out of my VW a month ago and the guy had just finished doing a Bentley where the owner opted to pay $14k (!) in dent removals himself as opposed to submitting it through his insurance....

A $700 claim is also suspicious to me since most deductibles are $500. It's kind of like how dealers are not obligated to tell you if a new car has had more than $500 in repairs, but they'll repaint half a car for $499 somehow. I've seen this car listed several times which also makes me think something is up with it.
Everyone is assuming the owner did it. If someone else damaged his bumper and insurance paid for it it would show up. Also when I got a Canadian car report they look for body shop quotes. So it's likely that they also track body shop repairs. Even if the owner paid out of pocket.
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      03-14-2017, 04:54 PM   #31
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Entirely possible as well Nachob, good point!
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      03-14-2017, 06:05 PM   #32
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What risk? Have a body shop check it out if you want, accidents are easy to spot, a paint repair is quite easy to determine. To offer someone 10k off for a bumper respray is ridiculous imo, let me know when you try and sell yours, I'll have a list.

As for Canadian insurance, for the 1M I pay $2500 a year for insurance, my deductible is $300, I don't understand why if I get in a small bumper accident I should pay for the insurance, and pay for my own accident repair, if you're suggesting pay out of pocket so it doesn't show up on carfax(american) and you're intension is to sell the car as never been in an accident for max profit, I don't care how you spin this, I feel like that's super shady, I'm glad I make a proper living and I don't have to screw the next guy over so I can make a few bucks. This kind of thinking surprises me, specially in a bmw community.

Regarding his offer, I said many times, if he gets it, great for him, it is a free market and be should offer whatever he wants, I just don't think the dealer is in the wrong for rejecting his "solid offer" mainly because I think it's not really a great offer, but also his reasoning for that offer is ridiculous. If he's serious about the car, go ans have it checked out, and make a proper offer.

And of course I'm the dealer, a Mclaren dealer spends his time sitting at his desk trolling bmw forums, you caught me Shroom, I'll get back to work now.

That's it.
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      03-14-2017, 07:12 PM   #33
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ICBC (local insurance) should have a record of the claim if there is one. In Vancouver the deductible is usually between 3 to 500. A repaint of the bumper (take off and reinstall) by a reputable body shop like No. 1 Collision here costs about $1200. I think the $700 is more like a repaint of the bumper to cover scratches. This can easily happened when someone nudged the bumper when parking.
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      03-14-2017, 07:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IZSL07L View Post
What risk? Have a body shop check it out if you want, accidents are easy to spot, a paint repair is quite easy to determine. To offer someone 10k off for a bumper respray is ridiculous imo, let me know when you try and sell yours, I'll have a list.

As for Canadian insurance, for the 1M I pay $2500 a year for insurance, my deductible is $300, I don't understand why if I get in a small bumper accident I should pay for the insurance, and pay for my own accident repair, if you're suggesting pay out of pocket so it doesn't show up on carfax(american) and you're intention is to sell the car as never been in an accident for max profit, I don't care how you spin this, I feel like that's super shady, I'm glad I make a proper living and I don't have to screw the next guy over so I can make a few bucks. This kind of thinking surprises me, specially in a BMW community.

Regarding his offer, I said many times, if he gets it, great for him, it is a free market and be should offer whatever he wants, I just don't think the dealer is in the wrong for rejecting his "solid offer" mainly because I think it's not really a great offer, but also his reasoning for that offer is ridiculous. If he's serious about the car, go ans have it checked out, and make a proper offer.

And of course I'm the dealer, a Mclaren dealer spends his time sitting at his desk trolling bmw forums, you caught me Shroom, I'll get back to work now.

That's it.
Gentlemen, I want to clarify one point on the Canadian process. Both of you have good points.

A perfect car to get Shroom's top price would have be all original and what he says makes sense in the US.

If you have a collectible car, you would be better off to pay the $700 out of pocket and get the re-spray done. This small investment would get you a clean Carfax report here!

With that said, I personally wouldn't do it though. Just me personally!

As a "car guy," I see this as dishonest. Yes, you would in fact get clean CarFax but the car was repainted. I would be upset if someone, especially a fellow "Car Guy" didn't disclose that.

I am not casting stones! I know people do it all the time, but despite popular opinion, doing something all the time doesn't make it right.

I'm not just saying that either. My white 1M was damaged by the dealer. They splashed some used oil on the side and it etched a few tiny spots in the paint. They re-clearcoated one entire side. Sijnce it was done by BMW, it never made it to CarFax!

Regardless, I told every single person up front and dropped the price about $3000 because of that. Sadly, the guy that bought my car then turned around and sold it with a clean CarFax to a wonderful lady and somehow she found out and was very upset.

Luckily, I found her and was able to share photos and receipts to show her that it was not in a wreck whatsoever. Simply a respray of the clearcoat on one side.

So for those reasons, I would also just use the insurance myself because I would disclose it anyway. Now if my son damaged his bumper, for $700, I would pay out of pocket. Not for clean carfax or to mislead someone, simply because the insurance company would record it as an accident and the increase in rates would be huge.

Finally, I have attached a picture of my Canadian Carproof report (Canadian Version of Carfax) of my current 1M. You will see in the highlighted section that Carproof even records body shop estimates!

So even if you wanted to pay yourself, if you went to a legitimate body shop, Carproof will find out. So, it will make it on the report anyway. It would still be better to have a legitimate body shop do the repair than having some guy do it in his garage just to not get it on the Carproof report!

Anyway, everyone here has valid points. Things just get a little touchy when you are paying "collectible" prices. I think it's interesting that Carproof gets body shop quotes. Here in the US, You can have some repairs under some threshold...and they don't show up on Carfax.

This point reminds me of the other thread on the guy that passed on a Canadian 1M because it still had the original Canadian KM speedo. I personally would feel BETTER with the original speedo than one that was swapped, yet this scares others. Same in this case. You have a history trail that a repair was done at a legitimate body shop and it shows that it was minor. I would find this reassuring! You know that a $700 repair is minor. It doesn't mean that you will still want the car if you are looking for perfection but this gives you some idea of the scope of the damage.

Finally, a bumper repaint, if done by a good BMW certified body shop is probably OK but does impact the "collectible" price.

What really worries me here is this: I was totally upfront about the re-spray of my car and took a discount, yet people were buying worse cars than mine based solely on clean Carfax that didn't show a bumper re-spray. Not to mention some thrashing that never makes it on there.

In a way this rewards those that launder repainted cars and hurts those that are straight-forward and honest. Personally, if someone was really straight up with me and the car was perfect otherwise and said, hey I got the bumper re-sprayed I would see that as a good thing because the damage was recorded and only minor.

So I hope that posting the Carproof report can bring a new perspective to the discussion because things are a little different on both sides of the wall...oh yeah, no wall up there.....yet! : )


See attached picture.

Thank you and peace and good will to all the 1M brethren!

Brother Nacho : )
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Last edited by nachob; 03-14-2017 at 07:26 PM..
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      03-14-2017, 08:05 PM   #35
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Exactly, the golden rule applies here, how would you feel if you find out after you bought a car that it has been repainted? Are you going to say well he didn't have it on carfax so that makes sense? No, you'd feel cheated, and how is it different when the table is turned? I don't understand what's there to debate about when it comes to this point. I never said the OP is in the wrong for making an offer that he felt is fair, what I said was I can see where the dealer is coming from.

If you don't already know, Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in North America, let me repeat that, Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in North America. If you don't see a Lambo, a Ferrari, or some sort of super car on your daily commute, you've been driving with your eyes closed. My point is this car will sell without a doubt, if it hasn't already, its likely because it's not a brand new 2017 model and people here wants the newest and greatest. Rest assure, someone will come and pick up a car that is basically the price of any bmw M class price, so I can understand why the dealer said no.

The whole point of this conversation is I don't agree with the idea that you should pay out of pocket even if the accident is not your fault to repair the car so the next guy doesn't know and end up paying you top dollar, I don't care how you debate it, that to me is ridiculous.
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      03-14-2017, 09:21 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca335 View Post
ICBC (local insurance) should have a record of the claim if there is one. In Vancouver the deductible is usually between 3 to 500. A repaint of the bumper (take off and reinstall) by a reputable body shop like No. 1 Collision here costs about $1200. I think the $700 is more like a repaint of the bumper to cover scratches. This can easily happened when someone nudged the bumper when parking.

Yes, I have seen this especially near the bottom when you scrape a curb. They will sand the clearcoat, spot spray an area and re-apply the clearcoat on the whole thing. If the seller had pictures of the damage to show someone, that would be great. Chances are the body shop took some too. I would ask for those myself. It's cost of asking "collectible" prices.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IZSL07L View Post
Exactly, the golden rule applies here, how would you feel if you find out after you bought a car that it has been repainted? Are you going to say well he didn't have it on carfax so that makes sense? No, you'd feel cheated, and how is it different when the table is turned? I don't understand what's there to debate about when it comes to this point. I never said the OP is in the wrong for making an offer that he felt is fair, what I said was I can see where the dealer is coming from.

If you don't already know, Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in North America, let me repeat that, Vancouver is the most expensive place to live in North America. If you don't see a Lambo, a Ferrari, or some sort of super car on your daily commute, you've been driving with your eyes closed. My point is this car will sell without a doubt, if it hasn't already, its likely because it's not a brand new 2017 model and people here wants the newest and greatest. Rest assure, someone will come and pick up a car that is basically the price of any bmw M class price, so I can understand why the dealer said no.

The whole point of this conversation is I don't agree with the idea that you should pay out of pocket even if the accident is not your fault to repair the car so the next guy doesn't know and end up paying you top dollar, I don't care how you debate it, that to me is ridiculous.
Yes, I believe in the golden rule too. This forum is for sharing of information and knowledge about our cars. That is all I was trying to do. I agree that I would fully disclose anything but my intention wasn't to give you a club to bonk the other guys on the head either.

I will say one more thing because you do come off as defensive and frustrated, which Shroom pointed out. I get it! Selling a 1M is very difficult and frustrating. I have never had as much aggravation as when I sold mine. I had guys call me and say, why are you selling so cheap? I would say, BMW spilled some stuff on my paint and re-sprayed it. They would hang up. I would have guys call me and ask if it had NAV, even though I put NO NAV 1M. Then they would demand to know how anyone would order a BMW with no freakin NAV! I had a guy sit in the car and scratch the steering wheel leather with his clip on phone case. I had another guy make a deal, then when I agreed say his brother says I shouldn't pay more than MSRP for the car and back out. Oh, and don't get me started on the MSRP talk. Everyone wants to talk about the $47,035 MSRP on the 1M when you're asking more. By the way I got an email from the guy that backed out a year later because he still wanted a 1M and they were going for 5K more a year later then mine.

So I understand how you can get frustrated and I hope the other guys here can cut you a little slack.

So back to the important stuff. Do you have pictures of the damage? That would help. This is a good place to put them too. A lot of people looking for 1Ms come here.

PS. I felt San Diego was a little disrespected here....I know Vancouver is expensive but San Diego is no slouch on high cost-of-living and plenty of Lambos and McClarens here, though they usually leave them at the airport when they take their helicopters! : )
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      03-14-2017, 10:18 PM   #37
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I'm frustrated because I personally know people who've been lied to, who only found out about the real history afterwards when parts of their car starts to rust, therefore people that believes they have the right to cover up accident histories of their car to benefit themselves and actually believes they are in the right frustrates me most.

I don't really need people to cut me any slacks, I don't get upset and let a forum influence my mood, neither will their opinions influence how I choose to conduct myself, but I appreciate the support nachob!
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