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      03-17-2017, 03:09 PM   #1
champignon
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Anyone here know Porsches?

I posted this on a Porsche forum but I'm not sure I'll get any responses so I'm putting part of the post here. I realize this is seriously off-topic for this forum, but seriously, is there any topic related to the 1M that we haven't already beaten to DEATH?

I am considering buying a Porsche, but I really don't know very much about the cars, and maybe someone here can steer me in the right direction. This would be to "round out" my car collection, as such. I am not planning to get rid of any of my current vehicles; this really shows how horrible my judgment is. I am hoping that better sense will prevail and I will abandon my search, however, at least I would like to learn about these cars if nothing else.

First, the last thing I need is another car; I already have 5 of them, 4 of which are BMWs. All of my vehicles have manual transmissions and I have no interest in automatic transmission vehicles, no matter how wonderful the AT is :-)

I have some storage considerations in that my storage space is already more or less full, however I could shoehorn in one additional car as long as it was no longer than 15 feet in total length.

As to a car, I would want something that has already significantly depreciated, so I would expect this means it needs to be at least 3 years old, maybe better if it is at least 5. MT is a must, and anything less than 275 HP is probably of no interest, and somewhat more would be somewhat better. Electric steering is a NO NO. Fun to drive is an absolute must!

I do need some cargo carrying capacity, in that I would want to carry some Costco items in the car as well as my 43lb doodle who can't sit in the front seat due to concerns about premature death by airbag, and wanting to avoid distractions while driving; he also sometimes gets car sick, and a somewhat confined space for him is probably a good thing.

I don't want a convertible; I already have the 135is which is enough for my climate. A back seat could be a plus, but it would be used mostly for storage or for the dog.

I don't want a troublesome car or a car with an Achilles heel that is going to have me in and out of the shop repeatedly with the vehicle. I don't work on cars mechanically other than extremely simple stuff, however I do keep them clean and neat and wax them from time to time. They are always garaged. I don't think I would ever drive this car in the snow, but in the rain, yes. I would not get snow tires but possibly would consider good AS tires vs. simply summer performance tires as the other choice.

Other criteria would be cost (probably no more than $40K under most circumstances, cheaper is better) and mileage, not looking to buy a car with more than maybe 45K miles on it, less is better. I would travel up to maybe 500 miles to pick up the car in person if need be, and having been seriously burned on a couple of out of state purchases on used BMWs that I did not inspect beforehand, I would never do that again :-)

From what I am seeing so far in my own research, a Cayman or Cayman S, or perhaps a 911 of some sort, would best fill the bill, but as I said, I know nothing of these cars so I'm trying to educate myself before seriously looking at specific cars. Maybe you can educate me why I should abandon this search and not buy another used car? That would be really welcome information!

I don't regard cars as investments, so while I would obviously not want to buy something that depreciates hugely every time I look at it, I am not really looking for a collectible vehicle, just one I will enjoy owning.

Given these criteria, what would you suggest I consider buying and why?

Thanks very much for all responses!

Addendum: I really would prefer an NA engine; I already own 4 Turbo engine cars, which is enough.

Last edited by champignon; 03-17-2017 at 04:07 PM.. Reason: brain fart correction
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      03-17-2017, 03:26 PM   #2
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Cant wait to hear the responses to this.
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      03-17-2017, 03:51 PM   #3
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What void, specifically, are you look to fill? Enjoying a new kind of driving experience? Acquiring a marque for the sake of car hoarding? Burning through some disposable income?
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      03-17-2017, 04:11 PM   #4
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What void, specifically, are you look to fill? Enjoying a new kind of driving experience? Acquiring a marque for the sake of car hoarding? Burning through some disposable income?
I have many voids, but I doubt that a car purchase will fill any of them :-)

I don't know, they look kind of cool and I don't know anything about them so it's an interesting subject. Also, they don't appear to have abandoned the fun of driving the way that our friends in Munich have. There is nothing in the current BMW range that interests me at all, other than perhaps the M2, which I am sad to say. The M2 doesn't interest me because I have a 1M and my other 1-Series vehicles, and I don't see it as being very different or an improvement.

I probably should not buy one but then I probably should not buy at least half of what I buy, so why should this be any different :-)
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      03-17-2017, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Matt@EuroJerks View Post
Cant wait to hear the responses to this.
They have started, and so far, not so positive :-)
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      03-17-2017, 04:28 PM   #6
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Champignon, mon frere! I apologize I don't know much about Porsches, except that the 911 line does nothing for me. I don't like the sound that much. Of the new cars, I find the 2014 Cayman S to be compelling. I love the side profile and it comes in great colors. The Yellow and Blue are extra beautiful. I am not mentioning the GT4 because that is over budget but it might be possible to find a manual NA 2014 Cayman S in your price range. Unfortunately, the second generation uses electric steering but it has been universally praised as the gold standard in electric steering so I would at least drive one. I do love the 917 of yesteryear and the only other Porsche that appeals to me is the 944S and 944 Turbo. I have never driven one, but again I find the lines compelling and well within budget. Of the new cars, the 2014 Cayman is at the top of my short list of modern cars. I hope you pick one up here in SoCal so we can take it for a spin. : )

Best wishes. 2 cents
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      03-17-2017, 06:51 PM   #7
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981 Cayman S, or a 991.1 S are probably right in your sweet spot. The Cayman is more agile, the 911 is faster. Go drive them and decide for yourself.

Edit just read your price considerations:

Not sure if those are in Euros or dollars. If dollars you will need move back a generation to the 987 Cayman or 997 911. Both are good, but the 997 is a much better overall than the 987 imho.
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      03-17-2017, 08:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Champignon, mon frere! I apologize I don't know much about Porsches, except that the 911 line does nothing for me. I don't like the sound that much. Of the new cars, I find the 2014 Cayman S to be compelling. I love the side profile and it comes in great colors. The Yellow and Blue are extra beautiful. I am not mentioning the GT4 because that is over budget but it might be possible to find a manual NA 2014 Cayman S in your price range. Unfortunately, the second generation uses electric steering but it has been universally praised as the gold standard in electric steering so I would at least drive one. I do love the 917 of yesteryear and the only other Porsche that appeals to me is the 944S and 944 Turbo. I have never driven one, but again I find the lines compelling and well within budget. Of the new cars, the 2014 Cayman is at the top of my short list of modern cars. I hope you pick one up here in SoCal so we can take it for a spin. : )

Best wishes. 2 cents
Nacho, I knew you would come through for me!

We have had a very long, cold, and snowy winter. My 3 summer cars have been imprisoned inside garages since the beginning of December. Today I took the 135is Convertible and the 1M off the lifts and out for a 10 mile spin, each. I am going to Boise in a couple of days and then I will take my Z3M Coupe out a bit. Life is good and getting better . . . . .
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      03-17-2017, 08:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
981 Cayman S, or a 991.1 S are probably right in your sweet spot. The Cayman is more agile, the 911 is faster. Go drive them and decide for yourself.

Edit just read your price considerations:

Not sure if those are in Euros or dollars. If dollars you will need move back a generation to the 987 Cayman or 997 911. Both are good, but the 997 is a much better overall than the 987 imho.
Thanks for your response. I posted a similar request on a Porsche forum and the one response I got says the Cayman has nowhere to put my furry dog, that I need to look at other models. Without Dude the Doodle being welcome, well, that's a deal breaker :-)

I am starting to think that the best strategy would be to drive all the local ones that come up for sale, and in the end not buy any of them . . . . pretty soon I'll probably become known to the local Porsche community and people will hang up on me when I reply to their Craigs List ads.

There are 3 or 4 used Boxters for sale in my area. Now I realize that these are convertibles and don't think I want another convertible, however test driving something that is local costs essentially nothing, while traveling somewhere to look at a car is expensive. So I am starting to like the idea of accumulating a few free test drives. I have some nice cars, so it isn't like this is some sort of serious itch I have to scratch . . .
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      03-17-2017, 08:36 PM   #10
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The only Porsche that could possibly meet all of your criteria in that price range is a 997.2 base Carrera. Probably a 2009. Avoid the 997.1 Carrera and Carrera S (especially the 2005 model year) as the IMS bearing is known to fail resulting in catastrophic engine failure. The IMS bearing was enlarged in the 2006-2008 model years, but is still suseptible to failure.
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      03-17-2017, 08:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pig Farmer View Post
The only Porsche that could possibly meet all of your criteria in that price range is a 997.2 base Carrera. Probably a 2009. Avoid the 997.1 Carrera and Carrera S (especially the 2005 model year) as the IMS bearing is known to fail resulting in catastrophic engine failure. The IMS bearing was enlarged in the 2006-2008 model years, but is still suseptible to failure.
Thanks very much for your response. I will have a look at these.

There seem to be a lot of used Boxters out there that are selling for cents on the dollar.

Forgetting about the fact that these don't meet many of my criteria, are convertibles, etc., are these cars total pieces of shit? Would they be worth looking at as an occasional "fun car?" They seem to sell used for 15 cents on the dollar, from what I can see.
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      03-17-2017, 08:49 PM   #12
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i'm not overly familiar with porsche's but at that price point, mileage, manual, rear seats, and NA pretty much 997 911 (Carrera's 2005-2012 i think) is probably your best bet. in my opinion probably going to be the best of the water-cooled generation (hydraulic steering). personally if i really wanted the porsche experience i would look everywhere for a nice air-cooled one (this could/probably will cost you a pretty penny though)
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      03-17-2017, 08:56 PM   #13
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In my hunt for the 1m, I took a hard look at the Cayman series.
Cliffs:
2006-2008 - 987.1 (Overblown IMS issues)
2009-2012 - 987.2 (Same body, power bumps)
2014+ - 981 (New model)

2014+ has electric steering and 2006-2008 probably has more miles than you want. I preferred the 987 to the 981 for the same reason many prefer the 1m to the m2 - raw more visceral drive. I think the 987.2 will be exactly what you're looking for, if you're looking for caymans, but are difficult to find.

However, sounds like a cayman probably won't work given your space requirements. Im not that familiar with the 911 range.

Side note, the Macan looks really interesting. Since your criteria was a little vague I figured I'd throw it out there especially if space is a factor. Good luck, let us know how the hunt goes!
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      03-17-2017, 09:50 PM   #14
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Thumbs up

Based on your wants, a 996 twin turbo sure seems like the answer. Reliable Mezger motor, 415 HP, AWD, and you can still get one for around $40k. Drawbacks would be: turbo (you'd prefer NA), fried egg headlights, and not the greatest interior.

Doug DeMuro's article "Here’s Why The 996 Turbo Is The Best Porsche 911 You Can Buy" is old, but still relevant.
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      03-17-2017, 10:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griz31 View Post
In my hunt for the 1m, I took a hard look at the Cayman series.
Cliffs:
2006-2008 - 987.1 (Overblown IMS issues)
2009-2012 - 987.2 (Same body, power bumps)
2014+ - 981 (New model)

2014+ has electric steering and 2006-2008 probably has more miles than you want. I preferred the 987 to the 981 for the same reason many prefer the 1m to the m2 - raw more visceral drive. I think the 987.2 will be exactly what you're looking for, if you're looking for caymans, but are difficult to find.

However, sounds like a cayman probably won't work given your space requirements. Im not that familiar with the 911 range.

Side note, the Macan looks really interesting. Since your criteria was a little vague I figured I'd throw it out there especially if space is a factor. Good luck, let us know how the hunt goes!
I have a Macan GTS. Amazing car for what it is, but it is not a sports car. Even with sport plus engaged you're not going to be chucking it around like you would a 1M or Cayman.
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      03-17-2017, 10:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digwm1 View Post
i'm not overly familiar with porsche's but at that price point, mileage, manual, rear seats, and NA pretty much 997 911 (Carrera's 2005-2012 i think) is probably your best bet. in my opinion probably going to be the best of the water-cooled generation (hydraulic steering). personally if i really wanted the porsche experience i would look everywhere for a nice air-cooled one (this could/probably will cost you a pretty penny though)
Thanks very much, I'll have a look at these!
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      03-17-2017, 10:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griz31 View Post
In my hunt for the 1m, I took a hard look at the Cayman series.
Cliffs:
2006-2008 - 987.1 (Overblown IMS issues)
2009-2012 - 987.2 (Same body, power bumps)
2014+ - 981 (New model)

2014+ has electric steering and 2006-2008 probably has more miles than you want. I preferred the 987 to the 981 for the same reason many prefer the 1m to the m2 - raw more visceral drive. I think the 987.2 will be exactly what you're looking for, if you're looking for caymans, but are difficult to find.

However, sounds like a cayman probably won't work given your space requirements. Im not that familiar with the 911 range.

Side note, the Macan looks really interesting. Since your criteria was a little vague I figured I'd throw it out there especially if space is a factor. Good luck, let us know how the hunt goes!
Great information, I do appreciate your taking the time to type this!
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      03-17-2017, 10:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8081M View Post
Based on your wants, a 996 twin turbo sure seems like the answer. Reliable Mezger motor, 415 HP, AWD, and you can still get one for around $40k. Drawbacks would be: turbo (you'd prefer NA), fried egg headlights, and not the greatest interior.

Doug DeMuro's article "Here’s Why The 996 Turbo Is The Best Porsche 911 You Can Buy" is old, but still relevant.
Looks interesting, thanks for the link, it was a fun article to read!

This time around, if I do buy a car, I'm not in any rush, and if I do buy something I can let the car come to me.

Thanks!
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      03-17-2017, 10:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
I have a Macan GTS. Amazing car for what it is, but it is not a sports car. Even with sport plus engaged you're not going to be chucking it around like you would a 1M or Cayman.
Thanks a lot. I didn't ever think the Macan was what I was looking for. I'm not sure exactly WHAT I am looking for, but I'll keep looking and if I find something and it makes sense financially, I'll look at it further.
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      03-17-2017, 10:45 PM   #20
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Any Comments on older Boxsters, let's say from around 2000 to 2005? It seems like they are being given away, for $8 to $15K.

Forgetting some of the requirements I listed which are obviously not going to be met with this car, is a good example in good condition with reasonably low miles worth a look?

Addendum -- looks like these are impossible to sell plus very overpriced for the market.

Last edited by champignon; 03-18-2017 at 01:14 PM..
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      03-18-2017, 04:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champignon View Post
I have many voids, but I doubt that a car purchase will fill any of them :-)
TRUTH.

Regardless, a Porsche would be a great addition to your stable. 911 gets my vote. 997s are interesting. Consider a 4S for all year fun; they are beasts. 997s are a preferable size to the 991, in my opinion.
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      03-18-2017, 05:55 PM   #22
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I thought that the Porsches were not as long as they are; from what I have found, they have a total length of about 172 to 175". This means that in order to cram one into the garage I have available, I am going to have to loose some weight if I want to be able to get into the chest freezer at the back of the garage :-)

The IMS bearing situation is scary. If I was to buy a Porsche, it wouldn't rack up the miles, which means (if a susceptible model and year) it would be at higher risk. It's hard to believe that a high end manufacturer like Porsche could have had this problem over so many model years, and then done its best to stiff the victims of their design flaws. Whatever you think of BMW, my sense is that they would not do that.

There are several used Porsches for sale in the local market; none of them look to be anything I would really buy, but I might go have a look at them. If you have any comment on these couple, which I might view and or test drive, please let me hear it:

(1) A 2000 Boxster with about 43K miles on it. Multiple owners who supposedly (according to seller) took good care of it. Seller claims physical infirmities which make it hard now for him to drive the car, which is why he claims to be selling it. Asked seller about IMS bearing problem; he claims that the prior owner researched this and that the engine in the car was manufactured before the newer version that had these bearing problems, and that this was determined by the engine serial number. From what I have read, this is plausible. Obviously, this car would not accommodate my dog easily, don't know if the passenger airbag can be turned off in this model year, but I doubt it. Owner claims convertible top is perfect and opens and closes "like a Swiss Watch." Having owned some Swiss watches, I'm not sure this is a very good endorsement :-) Price is very high for what it is, something approaching $15K, way over NADA and KBB pricing, but then this is very low miles for the age. Don't have Carfax or Autocheck.

(2) A 2006 911 Carrera Coupe, with less than 28,000 miles. Multiple owners, looks like maybe 6. Completely clean Carfax and Autocheck. Priced a bit above $40K.

I don't think that either of these would be worth seriously considering, but I may go have a look at them if I have the time this coming week.

I probably should not buy anything. Buying cars is way more enjoyable than selling them :-) If I can just go through the entire exciting purchasing process but never actually pull the trigger, I think that would be a lot of good and free entertainment, with an educational component added in.

If you have any thoughts on either of the above vehicles I have described, please let me know.

TIA
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