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      05-31-2011, 10:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
What are the hazards in running out of meth, and say, just using 100% water (if any)?
Detonation, pre-ignition, knock, "coffee can of marbles inside your engine", stuff like that.

This is assuming you are running increased timing and boost to utilize the greater effective octane. If you are using it just to cool the charge, you could probly run just strait water and not see much if any difference.
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      05-31-2011, 10:52 PM   #46
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If you are relying on the meth for additional fuel support (high boost levels and outside the fuel capability of the fuel system) and you replace it with water, you will run lean. You will still get pretty good cooling, and you will still get good knock suppression.

You will probably get flat spots at low RPM if you run a system that runs full flow based on boost and not RPM (and a big jet), as you will be injecting the same amount of water at 15psi at 2000RPM as at 6000RPM, which will put things out at low RPM.

The best thing to do if you run out of meth is just shut the system down until you get more.
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      06-01-2011, 12:41 AM   #47
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Ok thanks for all your help guys, but I'm getting confused on a few issues. If the tank runs dry, won't either the JB4 shut it off and revert back to normal tune without meth, or will the Meth controller itself shut it off?

Or, will it crap itself and blow things up?

Basically what I want to know is, if it's all installed and working properly, is there anything I could possibly do to wreck things if a)the meth kit fails or b)I run out of meth.
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      06-01-2011, 12:44 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Ok thanks for all your help guys, but I'm getting confused on a few issues. If the tank runs dry, won't either the JB4 shut it off and revert back to normal tune without meth, or will the Meth controller itself shut it off?

Or, will it crap itself and blow things up?

Basically what I want to know is, if it's all installed and working properly, is there anything I could possibly do to wreck things if a)the meth kit fails or b)I run out of meth.
Richard would love to help but that's a Juicebox question and I just don't know enough about the JB.
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      06-01-2011, 12:57 AM   #49
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Except for the just released new Vishnu meth system, all other N54 meth systems completely run the meth themselves (as in they have their own controller independant of the tune), and the tunes just respond to what the meth system is doing. So those systems do not shutoff the meth or control the meth in any way.... they just respond to the amount of meth flow in the tuning they provide to be more aggressive when you reach normal meth flow and less aggressive when meth is not flowing.

Therefore they are quite safe in that you should not get aggressive tuning when Meth is not flowing.... but they do not shut down the meth system when there is not flow. And generally the meth system is unaware of the lack of flow, so it will continue to run the pump dry. This is not ideal, but I am not aware of the long term effects on the pump.

The new Vishnu system is different to the above as the Procede is acting as the meth controller. The Procede actively controls the meth flow using internal 3D mapping. Therefore the Procede can shut the meth off in Valet mode and map 1 so you can turn the meth system off by just using the cruise stalk map switching. Also, the Procede intentionally reduces meth flow at low RPM in order to get a constant ratio of petrol to meth flow which benefits the DME fuel corrections and in reduction of meth usage.
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      06-01-2011, 01:44 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Except for the just released new Vishnu meth system, all other N54 meth systems completely run the meth themselves (as in they have their own controller independant of the tune), and the tunes just respond to what the meth system is doing. So those systems do not shutoff the meth or control the meth in any way.... they just respond to the amount of meth flow in the tuning they provide to be more aggressive when you reach normal meth flow and less aggressive when meth is not flowing.

Therefore they are quite safe in that you should not get aggressive tuning when Meth is not flowing.... but they do not shut down the meth system when there is not flow. And generally the meth system is unaware of the lack of flow, so it will continue to run the pump dry. This is not ideal, but I am not aware of the long term effects on the pump.

The new Vishnu system is different to the above as the Procede is acting as the meth controller. The Procede actively controls the meth flow using internal 3D mapping. Therefore the Procede can shut the meth off in Valet mode and map 1 so you can turn the meth system off by just using the cruise stalk map switching. Also, the Procede intentionally reduces meth flow at low RPM in order to get a constant ratio of petrol to meth flow which benefits the DME fuel corrections and in reduction of meth usage.
Thanks Adrian, sounds similar to what the JB4 will do. Terry told me that they are working on a 'budget' meth kit which the JB4 will control.


So basically for the 2 tunes right now, if meth runs out, the tune will react accordingly and things won't go sour.
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      06-01-2011, 01:52 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Thanks Adrian, sounds similar to what the JB4 will do. Terry told me that they are working on a 'budget' meth kit which the JB4 will control.


So basically for the 2 tunes right now, if meth runs out, the tune will react accordingly and things won't go sour.
That's correct Richard, The JB4 will control the meth you, me, Matt, Vinney and everything else.
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      06-01-2011, 02:04 AM   #52
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The sensation of injecting meth straight into your elbow... I really can't think of a better way to get your adrenaline going and the gains you get from it are phenomenal. The only downside is it's addictive
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      06-01-2011, 02:15 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Thanks Adrian, sounds similar to what the JB4 will do. Terry told me that they are working on a 'budget' meth kit which the JB4 will control.


So basically for the 2 tunes right now, if meth runs out, the tune will react accordingly and things won't go sour.
Actually it is quite different to the JB4 approach but Terry would like you to think otherwise. I can explain the differences if it interests you, but I am guessing it does not.

All meth kits that have a failsafe or flow sensor that is correctly connected to your tune and the tune is set up correctly to use it are safe. Vishnu have never sold anything that did not have this.
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      06-01-2011, 02:20 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Actually it is quite different to the JB4 approach but Terry would like you to think otherwise. I can explain the differences if it interests you, but I am guessing it does not.

All meth kits that have a failsafe or flow sensor that is correctly connected to your tune and the tune is set up correctly to use it are safe. Vishnu have never sold anything that did not have this.

Tell you what, you can explain it to me, if you can honestly say that nobody has had problems with a Procede
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      06-01-2011, 02:20 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Actually it is quite different to the JB4 approach but Terry would like you to think otherwise. I can explain the differences if it interests you, but I am guessing it does not.

All meth kits that have a failsafe or flow sensor that is correctly connected to your tune and the tune is set up correctly to use it are safe. Vishnu have never sold anything that did not have this.
How is the Vishnu different to the Coolingmist System X with the Flow sensor, Fail Safe Box and solenoid?

It connects into JB4, and also has its own FSB? Doesnt the FSB shut down the meth flow?
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Last edited by micha3l; 06-01-2011 at 03:48 AM..
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      06-01-2011, 02:23 AM   #56
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I think that David from Coolingmist has all safety features covered and these new systems are gonna best amazing.
Can't wait.

SAFETY FIRST!
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      06-01-2011, 02:24 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
Tell you what, you can explain it to me, if you can honestly say that nobody has had problems with a Procede
Problems.....
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      06-01-2011, 02:26 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4135 View Post
Problems.....
I'm serious! By the sounds of it the Procede always does things the best and most correct way and the JB always takes shortcuts. So therefore, the Procede should never cause any problems
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      06-01-2011, 02:31 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
I'm serious! By the sounds of it the Procede always does things the best and most correct way and the JB always takes shortcuts. So therefore, the Procede should never cause any problems
That's what they want you to think. Don't be fooled my friend it's not that way at all.

Last edited by JB4-335; 06-01-2011 at 03:28 AM..
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      06-01-2011, 06:52 AM   #60
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Not being a fan boy but the cm system contols the meth while the JB controls the tune. The new Vishnu system controls the meth as WELL as the tune at the same time. Best way IMHO.

Not hard to draw the conclusion that one tune will be proactive and the other reactive. Reactive with SFA proactive timing control = more potential for engine damage IMHO. Look at the stats regarding grenaded motors.

I'm more than happy to admit I favor the Vishnu approach, shit I've got 95000 klms on my n54 and I installed a proceed on the day of delivery back in 07 with no tune related issues. This is testiment to the solid nature of both the N54 hardware as well as the tuning by Vishnu & it's evolution over time.
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      06-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #61
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Over the years I have seen it all. I have seen every possible setup many, many times. There are advantages and dis-advantages of engine bay vs trunkmount mount systems. As far as compatability goes, the WWF tank is fully compatable you dont have to worry about methanol damaging it.

With the trunkmount version you will generally get longer life out of the pump. Under the hood the pump stands a greater chance of getting wet and more importantly it will get more hot. People can spin this anyway they want but at the end of the day a cooler pump will last longer. Does that mean you will average 3 years under hood and 7 in the trunk? I think it all varies but common sense prevales.

Personally I dont have any problem with under the hood installs when they are done right. Its all what the customer wants. In terms of the market I would say 75% of what we sell are trunknmount and this is mostly because few late model vehicles can fit a pump let alone a tank under the hood.

The #1 goal over the last year has been to provide the most reliable system available. We have eliminated fittings and parts where possible and made our failsafe box with no moving parts, no fittings, etc. Our Pro tank has a nice 2.3 gallon capacity and the design of this tank is so that you never need to worry about drawing in air and its the only large capacity tank made for the meth market that does not require any baffles, etc. Trust me folks, Engineering matters.

My company has designed a new system that focuses on performance, reliability and simplicity.

CM

Last edited by coolingmist; 06-01-2011 at 08:12 AM..
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      06-01-2011, 08:33 AM   #62
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Thanks for your input David.
There's some reassuring words from the methanol injection professor/scientist himself.
Don't think anyone knows meth like David does.
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      06-01-2011, 06:01 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOPALX View Post
I'm more than happy to admit I favor the Vishnu approach, shit I've got 95000 klms on my n54 and I installed a proceed on the day of delivery back in 07 with no tune related issues. This is testiment to the solid nature of both the N54 hardware as well as the tuning by Vishnu & it's evolution over time.
So... does that mean that anyone who has a tune that has done that amount of km's can say their tune is the best?

I've done 60,000 with the JB3 and had no issues whatsoever. I know of 2 people that have used Procedes and got rid of it within weeks due to issues.

ANYWAY... let's not get off topic, I never intended this conversation to go this way until Adrian swayed it into this direction.
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      06-01-2011, 07:01 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
So... does that mean that anyone who has a tune that has done that amount of km's can say their tune is the best?

I've done 60,000 with the JB3 and had no issues whatsoever. I know of 2 people that have used Procedes and got rid of it within weeks due to issues.

ANYWAY... let's not get off topic, I never intended this conversation to go this way until Adrian swayed it into this direction.
I never indicated in my post that Procede was the best tune. I simply related my personal experience over a lot of klms without problems.

Adrian's involvement seams to be responding solely to differences in hardware & advise regarding use of metho vs meth.
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      06-01-2011, 07:41 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu View Post
Actually it is quite different to the JB4 approach but Terry would like you to think otherwise. I can explain the differences if it interests you, but I am guessing it does not.
.

WOPALX;

Sigh... this comment is not just 'responding solely to differences in hardware'. It's taking a cheap stab at another company because he thinks its inferior in every way. The conversation was civil up until this point. Nobody else chose to comment like this but Adrian. It seems to happen a lot on here with not just Adrian, but with some Procede fanbois (not particularly talking about in the Aus forum though).

I am a business owner, and taking stabs at other businesses continuously only makes you look petty and frankly, a little jealous.

Now let's move on!
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      06-01-2011, 07:46 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBK View Post
WOPALX;

Sigh... this comment is not just 'responding solely to differences in hardware'. It's taking a cheap stab at another company because he thinks its inferior in every way. The conversation was civil up until this point. Nobody else chose to comment like this but Adrian. It seems to happen a lot on here with not just Adrian, but with some Procede fanbois (not particularly talking about in the Aus forum though).

I am a business owner, and taking stabs at other businesses continuously only makes you look petty and frankly, a little jealous.

Now let's move on!


Agree back onto........... what was this thread about..........Ahhhh yeh Water/Methanol/Ethanol injection.
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