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[ianc]

Hm - there's no rebate on for me, only in the US. Bastards....

Yeah, but we have Trump. Trade ya...

ianc

[ianc]

Just had them mounted yesterday. Running 265/35 & 225/40's on VMR 810's with Eibach springs and Koni sports. I was initially a little nervous, but after ~40 mi, I haven't had any rubbing yet despite some heavy on-ramp attacks. They feel great so far, but I think it's a little early to tell; will know more after a couple hundred mi.

Will post pics at some point. Love the VMR's...

ianc

[asbrr]

Cool - what size are the VMRs?

I was going to wait until I have a few more days/mileage under my belt, but might as well post my initial impressions:

- 2010 128i sport pack w/ bilstein B12, running factory 18" staggered 18x7.5 and 18x8.5. Purchased 225/40/18 and 255/35/18, to replace the same size Bridgestone RE760s I had prior, 32PSI front and 36 rear (same as I ran on the RE760s).

- Initial impressions are it's a very smooth and quiet tire. Very comfortable, it feels like it "rounds off" the bumps which is welcome as the Bilsteins can be a bit harsh on cracked/broken pavement
- Grip is VASTLY superior the RE760s. They are super sticky to be honest, and breakaway grip seems nice and gradual, it's not a spiky tire by any means. I can hardly break traction with my wimpy 128, and ABS under hard braking comes in much later than with the RE760s. Did not get to try in the wet yet

Now to the small negative:

- Many of you have heard about the predecessor's downside of "soft sidewalls". I was worried about this and based on other reviews, felt I'd give it a shot thinking Conti has solved this problem. I had personal experience with the DWS model in the past on my wife's car (older A4), and the sidewall flex/delay in steering response was noticeable. Tires felt like they reacted slowly, a millisecond after making small steering inputs
- So perhaps I was looking out for this very closely, but I do notice a small step down in steering feel, steering response. They are not quite as sharp as the RE760s. This make ssome sense in that they are like 3-4lbs lighter than the RE760s, and they ride noticeably better
- After about 300kms, the feel has improved a bit, but I can still reproduce a bit of this "lag" by doing small fast left-right slalom transitions, I'm talking like less than 10 degrees of steering and just go back and forth, the car reacts a bit slower than expected, you can almost feel the sidewall flex a tiny bit and then it takes a set. Do this back and forth and you will notice what I mean
- Steering also seems to transmit a bit less road feel, it almost seems lighter

After driving for a few days unless I'm doing the maneuver I describe above, it's not really noticeably in daily driving. I have a track day lined up on the 9th, and will post impressions after that. I don't think this small nuance will come into play on the track, as it's a high speed sweeper kind of place not a short autocross type track.

Last but not least, the tires look a bit "puffy" compared to the RE760s, the sidewalls have rounded shoulders. In hindsight, I should have gone with factory sizes (215/40/18 and 245/35/18), this may have also helped with the steering feel issue as having the tire mounted on a rim that's a tad narrow makes for more sidewall flex. So a 225 section tire should be on an 8" wheel, and a 255 section should be on a 9" wheel. I'm running the lower end of the limit with 7.5" and 8.5" wheels.

[ianc]

Great review, thanks for writing it up!

The VMR's are 18's and are, I believe, an inch wider than factory, so 8.5" front and 9.5" rear. The stock 245/215 sizes looked very 'stretched' on them.

I also believe I'm feeling a slight decrease in turn-in response from my previous tires, but since these were Conti Extremecontact DW's, I'm hoping it's just the newness of the tires. I still only have ~40 mi or so on them, so will reserve judgement for awhile.

The turn-in response will of course be very sensitive to the tire pressure. I believe the factory recommendations of 36/39 are meant for the original RFT tires and are far too high for a conventional design. The shop I had the previous DW's mounted by inflated them to this pressure and I found that the rears wore badly in the middle from overinflation. I'm currently running 30/34, so we'll see how that goes; I may bump it up a couple pounds if transient response doesn't improve over time, but would be reluctant to do so if it compromised the longevity. The DW's wore very well, much better than the Yokohama S-Drives I ran before them.

I don't track or autox, but do have a ~40 round trip commute, largely on surface roads, so I'm sensitive to lane change maneuvers, stopping distances, etc. So far they are confidence-inspiring and definitely have more grip than the outgoing DW's had.

Will be interested to hear your opinions of the track experience with them,

ianc

[asbrr]

Interesting to hear that you were running the previous version (DW) of this tire and still felt a slight loss in response. As you say I think that may be down to pressures and the "newness" of the tire.

For the same reasons I'm going to continue tinkering with the pressure and put some more miles on them...but the feeling compared to my old tire is definitely still there.

I certainly appreciate the added comfort as my car is a daily driver, but I do notice the lack of sharpness. Will adjust pressures and post my thoughts post track day.

[Olgeezer1]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Had a student at the track on the weekend running the new EC Sports. I was quite impressed with them. Right now, that would be my replacement for my MPSS, as I run 18" tires, and the Michelin Sport 4 seems like a step backwards. Felt like similar grip levels, maybe a slight edge to the EC Sport, but the EC Sport had better turn in and feel.

Are the MPSS not available in your sizes in 18"? I'm using square 225/40/18 and understand they will continue to be available indefinitely, due I understand to the fact that they're a standard size for current BMW's.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Olgeezer1

Are the MPSS not available in your sizes in 18"? I'm using square 225/40/18 and understand they will continue to be available indefinitely, due I understand to the fact that they're a standard size for current BMW's.

The MPSS are being phased out as far as I know, to be replaced by the MP4 and MP4S. The MP4 will be a step backwards, and the MP4S are only available at this time in 19" and up.

[asbrr]

So here are my updated impressions after 2 days of abuse at the Mosport GP track outside of Toronto. This is a very high speed track with lots of elevation change, many high speed high G turns and a one very tight section. I also spent some time on a parking lot skidpad setup (all of this was a BMW school event)

- I was at the same track in very similar conditions (perhaps about 2-3 degrees celcius cooler) in June, so I have a good frame of reference. On that day I was on my Bridgestone RE760s, which were on their last legs but just good enough for a track day

- From the street as I have posted in an earlier reply, the Contis are a very street friendly tire. Quiet, smooth, and "round off" bumps nicely. There was a noticeable loss of steering precision as I mentioned, even notable on the street. Well, at least it was something I noticed anyway

- First track session I was all over the place, partly due to jagged driving (I'm rusty), but certainly exacerbated by the slight "squirm" introduced by these tires as well as not understanding what pressures these tires like at this track. I had the pressure set identically to how I had the RE760s the first time around at this facility, slightly lower than factory at the front (30psi cold) and lower than factory at the rear (36psi cold). Door values on my car are 32 and 39 respectively, but I guess that's for run-flats?

- I was quite upset at how the car handled and at that point was even thinking "how can I work out a reasonable swap for a different set for these tires while they are still very new (I had less than 700 km on them at this point and one lapping session)"

- I adjusted pressures up for the second session, up to 32 cold and 38 cold. Maybe I was just getting smoother (definitely), or maybe I was getting used to the response but the tires felt better. Still squishy on initial steering input and braking, but better

- 3rd session I upped the pressures some more, thinking I was heading in the right direction, 34 cold and 40 cold rear. Again, maybe because I was getting smoother the squirm had lessened, or maybe the pressure was helping, BUT, after a couple of laps I had NO GRIP! Suspected that the tires got too hot and hard, with hot pressures probably in the mid 40s which these do NOT like. Was very annoyed and frustrated at this point.

- 4th session I dropped back to 31 cold and 36 cold, with an additional 1psi drop respectively for the left side of the car given it's a clockwise config with mostly right hand turns. This session was MUCH BETTER. Definitely because I was getting into a smoother rhythm and my inputs were better, but the grip even once warmed up held up!

That was Saturday. The entire day Sunday I stuck with the above pressures with slight compensation up for the cold morning runs and then backing off to the above values for the afternoon. My confidence improved steadily and I was basically "forced" to drive smoothly to keep the car stable.

What I will conclude is this, it's a great street tire and although I didn't get to try it in the wet, it's supposedly excellent for that. There is a loss of steering response/precision though, despite what conti says, this is their quote:

"Like its predecessor, the ExtremeContact DW, ...<snip>... were able to increase the sidewall stiffness of the ExtremeContact Sport by 86 percent versus the DW while only increasing ride stiffness by 8 percent."

I don't know if the squirm is coming from the sidewall, or from the void ratio, but there is some squirm, which might be scary the first time you push your car if you're not used to that.

Otherwise they are comfortable, quiet, and the compound I admit is quite grippy (more so than the RE760s anyway, as that's my direct reference). Very progressive and friendly when breaking away. Just does not like sudden inputs, and seems to be more sensitive to pressure adjustments in comparison to the RE760s. After 2 days of abuse there is quite a bit of marbling as expected, especially on the small groove right inboard of the large shoulder blocks. They are still smooth and quiet though.

Would I buy them again? Not sure, I love the smooth supple ride, and if I wasn't doing any days at the track of just one or two per season, these are probably a good choice. What I really wanted were the Indy 500 firestones (rebranded Bridgestones), they would have been great bang for the buck if they are an improvement from the older RE760s.

That's my 2 cents, sorry for the long post.

[ianc]

Thanks for the track report asbrr, always interesting to read your impressions.

For myself, in my admittedly much tamer DD experience, I feel like the tires have firmed up after putting a couple hundred miles on them and they are communicating very well. I don't feel that the ride is any smoother or more supple (in terms of cushioning transients) than the previous DW's, but they feel somehow solider; more stable. It may be due to the increased width (or perhaps just my imperfect memory). I'm still running them at 30/34 and will keep at these pressures I believe. For street driving I'd have to describe myself as very happy with them thus far. Time will tell ultimately. Sorry I'm not able to provide as much detail as yourself, but hopefully my .02 lends some additional commuter perspective... ;-)

ianc

P.S. Contrary to my earlier claims, I am getting some rubbing in the front under heavy suspension compression with the Eibach springs. It's only happening lightly once every couple days or so and there's nothing sharp there so I'm not terribly worried for the moment. Will investigate more later but time has been short lately and it's been so bloody hot & humid...

[asbrr]

ianc I completely agree with you - I think it's a very good street tire. I did meet an M235i owner at the track day who was running with the same tires, and said he liked them even at the track in comparison to Michelin PSS and Bridgestone S04. So I'm not sure what to make of my feedback, but I can on demand reproduce the "wobble", which was not there with my previous tires.

But as you said, it's perfectly fine on the street - I am really enjoying the smooth ride and good grip. I will run these until they are done, which will include more track time next year as I'm done for this year.

Your feeling that they are stiffer than the DWs is also correct, Continental specifically increased sidewall stiffness by a great amount on these vs the DW. What I am feeling I guess is more related to tread squirm and void ratio possibly. I will continue to fiddle with pressures to see what happens and report back with anything different.