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      10-14-2009, 09:40 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ View Post
OK, someone explain to me how a tri-turbo 4-cylinder is going to work and be efficient....
the tri turbo what I know is a diesel. (top range 6 cyl)
The twin turbo diesels of BMW have a small and a big turbo. The small one in low rev range so the turbo hole is small and the engine picks up fast. in mid range the big one kicks in, and at high rev only the big one is working pressing more air in the engine --> more hp. So with this concept you have the advantages of both worlds.
I imagine a tri turbo to have a simular concept. small medium big to create a larger rev range and higher output. The efficiency will be that the HP it delivers is comparable to a 8 cyl diesel, but achieved with a 6 cyl.

again, just my speculations
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      10-14-2009, 10:21 AM   #134
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I have seen sequential and compound setups (check out Boost Logic's compound setup for the 2jz, normally only seen on diesels) but throwing in a 3rd turbo on such a small number of cilynders seems like overthinking a simple problem. Properly size a single twin-scroll or run a sequential dual and it will be almost lagless. Besides, if it revved to 8,000 rpm and it was full spool by 3,000rpm then you would always be in the "quick spool" zone everytime you were racing/shifting at redline. Who cares if there is lag barely off idle? I know Subie and Mitsu owners don't! My main complaint with the N54 is that the turbos are undersized and we have a massive torque drop at 5,500 rpm.
Hopefully they don't let that happen again, especially if they market it as a track-ready car.
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      10-14-2009, 10:54 AM   #135
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Bingo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Let's give it a stab - The four cylinder crank is a single plane crank with cylinders 2 & 3 throw's being 180 degrees out of cylinders 1 & 4 throw's.

Firing Sequence is generally either 1-3-4-2 or 1-2-4-3. If it's the later then a small turbo is coupled to 1 &2 and another to 4 & 3.

Output from those two turbos would provide boost quickly at low load/RPM. A third larger turbo (fed from the output of the two smaller turbos or fed by bypassing the two smaller turbos) would handle the higher RPM boost requirements. That's just my guess.

However, if this is to be a high RPM motor (say 8K + RPM) then it probably won't be direct injected. And some fans of the HPFP are giving a sigh of relief with that factoid. ; -)
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      10-14-2009, 12:27 PM   #136
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Just received my BMW Roundel magazine in the mail yesterday and in it one of the BMW reps was saying that they have something in the works for the 1-series "M type" of car. I will see if I can scan the article when I get home later today.
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      10-14-2009, 12:43 PM   #137
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10,000+ thread views... think there's interest in this car?
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      10-14-2009, 01:09 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-NC View Post
FYI: The N54 will be discontinued in the new 1/3 Series.
2012 will bring 4 cylinders to the US.
It seems unlikely that the N54 (or variant thereof) would be dropped. I'd imagine the 6 cylinder engine would be an option to the new 4 cylinder engine(s) we'll see.
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      10-14-2009, 01:33 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
10,000+ thread views... think there's interest in this car?

Just a bit!
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      10-14-2009, 01:36 PM   #140
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If this is the supersports, I may have to let the M3 go and do another Euro Delivery...
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      10-14-2009, 01:52 PM   #141
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Can't wait to see more updates on this car
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      10-14-2009, 02:12 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
10,000+ thread views... think there's interest in this car?
I think I count for 50 of them.
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      10-14-2009, 02:43 PM   #143
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Just remember, however light or fast the car is it can't touch M3's 0-60 of 4.4s. If we work backwards from there and constrain ourselves with the engine only outputting 330-340hp max then we can figure out how much weight saving is needed. I believe the 135i current does 4.8s. Does anyone have a rough estimate how much weight saving is needed to shave .2 seconds off? And is this realistic?

If it requires lighter window or cardboard trunk floors I dont believe it will make it over to USA. CSL never did.
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      10-14-2009, 02:48 PM   #144
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i thought the rule of thumb was 100 lbs =.1 second
or whatever the difference is between base 1 and base 3 because the performance difference is .2 right?
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      10-14-2009, 02:53 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Just remember, however light or fast the car is it can't touch M3's 0-60 of 4.4s. If we work backwards from there and constrain ourselves with the engine only outputting 330-340hp max then we can figure out how much weight saving is needed. I believe the 135i current does 4.8s. Does anyone have a rough estimate how much weight saving is needed to shave .2 seconds off? And is this realistic?
All you need to drop 0.2 seconds is better/wider tires and some 30-40 BHP. Add a better suspension, a limited slip and loose some 200 lbs and you'll be right there with the M3 - or faster.

For the E46 M3 CSL, I believe BMW lost 185kg, which is 407 lbs. I'm sure someone can verify this number - but what I'm getting at is that it's very easy for BMW to drop 200-300 lbs for a limited edition racer...

Ask yourself this question - would you buy the supersports if it came without a radio, A/C and rear seats? I personally wouldn't, because I need at least the A/C and rear seats...
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      10-14-2009, 03:06 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Just remember, however light or fast the car is it can't touch M3's 0-60 of 4.4s. If we work backwards from there and constrain ourselves with the engine only outputting 330-340hp max then we can figure out how much weight saving is needed. I believe the 135i current does 4.8s. Does anyone have a rough estimate how much weight saving is needed to shave .2 seconds off? And is this realistic?

If it requires lighter window or cardboard trunk floors I dont believe it will make it over to USA. CSL never did.
I agree.
The complaint about the E82 has never really been the lack of power. It has always been the handling characteristics. . . . soooo, a carbon fiber roof, upgraded suspension, and fender flares for more aggressive rubber, and perhaps the BMW power kit and you have a beast. Reporting a 0-60 mph around 4.6 seconds, 1/4 mile at ~13.00 secs flat should keep them out of the M3's territory. But the sky is the limit for the handling. . .I hope.

Overall, I think we all want a 135i that handles better and can more easily fit larger wheels and more aggressive rubber.
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      10-14-2009, 03:35 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattHerb View Post
Overall, I think we all want a 135i that handles better and can more easily fit larger wheels and more aggressive rubber.
i for one would enjoy a different engine (who would pay for a M car with a n54? not me), LSD, and a substantial drop in weight on top of all that
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      10-14-2009, 03:52 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Just remember, however light or fast the car is it can't touch M3's 0-60 of 4.4s.
I disagree. A couple different rags clocked the M3 at 4.1seconds.

BMW has plenty of room to play with. Those in the know have already mentioned the M3 will get some sort of a power bump. It isnt determined yet if they will only offer it in the competition package later on.

I wish people would stop calling it an //M car. It's NOT one! They just have their hands on it.
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      10-14-2009, 04:07 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BForbes View Post

I wish people would stop calling it an //M car. It's NOT one! They just have their hands on it.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be considered an //M car. If they're upgrading the engine, the suspension, and the body work...what's the difference? Dancing around the issue just because they've used the M1 name in the past is just silly.
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      10-14-2009, 04:08 PM   #150
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What if . . . the M3 gets its 'GT' (no not the Gran Turismo, like the 5er's getting - but the real GT, like Porsche GT ; -). Now you have an M3 that's been skinnied down and probably decontented to almost body-in-white.

Now bring a 135i GT in behind it - using a slightly tweaked N55B30 engine (the update to the N54), ~ 300 lbs less, LSD, etc. Now you have the pinnacle M3 GT that's a sub 4 second car, and a 135i GT that's a low 4 second car.

Done and done, problem solved. BMW you can hire me now. But as adc fears, no radio for you! ; -)
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      10-14-2009, 04:23 PM   #151
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you do know this could just be a mule for another m car, right? I mean, look how far those front tires stick out.
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      10-14-2009, 04:26 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be considered an //M car. If they're upgrading the engine, the suspension, and the body work...what's the difference? Dancing around the issue just because they've used the M1 name in the past is just silly.
I'm in the same boat as you. I would rather they call it an M1 but its not happening.

We should be lucky they're making our niche car out of a car that's already a niche. Its an //M car in the sense that they're working on it. It wont be hopefully in terms of a 20,000+ premium. It gives them a smidge more breathing room too. I dont think any //M car in recent history has ever been lighter than the base car. This could change that with the 'SuperSports' if thats what they chose. I think a ZHP in comparison would be too tame. Our trusty insider says its an "un CSL" CSL. Whatever the hell that means.

The Bentley SuperSports lost over 200lbs if I'm not mistaken. Woohoo!

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      10-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
What if . . . the M3 gets its 'GT' (no not the Gran Turismo, like the 5er's getting - but the real GT, like Porsche GT ; -). Now you have an M3 that's been skinnied down and probably decontented to almost body-in-white.

Now bring a 135i GT in behind it - using a slightly tweaked N55B30 engine (the update to the N54), ~ 300 lbs less, LSD, etc. Now you have the pinnacle M3 GT that's a sub 4 second car, and a 135i GT that's a low 4 second car.

Done and done, problem solved. BMW you can hire me now. But as adc fears, no radio for you! ; -)
That would be badass Hugo! I cant see them using the N55 though. I'm particularly not sold on its superiority in terms of acceleration. It's design and what not is clearly ahead though.
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      10-14-2009, 04:32 PM   #154
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I hope it comes with just 2 seats, ac, radio and a badass cage interior wise
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