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      05-22-2019, 05:15 PM   #1
sixburgh
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Something in the wind.

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      05-22-2019, 08:37 PM   #2
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Should be interesting!
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      05-22-2019, 10:39 PM   #3
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enjoy the 1er as it's the last of the likes of 2002, e21, e30, e36 and e46. soon as you can pull into the charging station and a 7min visit gets you 300miles on a controlled grid. one day e82/88 will only be used in rural or designated off road areas much like horseback riding is currently.
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      05-22-2019, 11:19 PM   #4
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Inevitable, unfortunately. Enjoy your cars, naturally aspirated or turbocharged, while you can. The good news is that BMW is prepared to stick around for another 100 years, for whatever the future of mobility turns out to be.
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      05-23-2019, 12:21 AM   #5
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I don't think ICE will disappear organically until at least 2050. They're just too entrenched and indispensable in rural/underdeveloped areas. Their downfall will likely be brought about by increased gas taxes and or registration fees. Human-driven cars also won't disappear until insurance prices them out of reach in favor of self-driving cars.

I wouldn't mind driving an electric car in the daily commute as long as motorsport ranches become much more common and inexpensive. As it stands, a track day usually costs around $250 minimum.
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      05-23-2019, 07:45 AM   #6
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I don't think ICE will disappear organically until at least 2050. They're just too entrenched and indispensable in rural/underdeveloped areas. Their downfall will likely be brought about by increased gas taxes and or registration fees. Human-driven cars also won't disappear until insurance prices them out of reach in favor of self-driving cars.

I wouldn't mind driving an electric car in the daily commute as long as motorsport ranches become much more common and inexpensive. As it stands, a track day usually costs around $250 minimum.
"Motorsport Ranch" gave me pause. It sounds like a great place, but also makes me feel like some day I'm going to get a phone call telling me "It's time" and I'll have to take my 135i up to the ranch like one of my childhood cats.
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      05-23-2019, 02:53 PM   #7
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An EV 1er seems like a great idea to me. Conmcept in 2009 - why isn't it in production, like, 7 years ago? An EV 1er convertible would be a perfect driving machine to me. I don't need to operate an ICE to have a blast driving this car.
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      05-23-2019, 03:37 PM   #8
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The only reason we use combustion engines at all is because batteries suck. But that won't be the case forever.

Electric has ideal powerband: max torque from a dead stop, doesn't need a clutch or transmission. Accurate and precise torque control is a cinch compared to combustion motors. Power density is also ludicrously high with several hundred hp available from a <100lb motor.

If you actually like driving you will freaking love electric. If you love engine noise, get a job in a generating station or something.
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      05-23-2019, 04:03 PM   #9
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The only reason we use combustion engines at all is because batteries suck. But that won't be the case forever.

Electric has ideal powerband: max torque from a dead stop, doesn't need a clutch or transmission. Accurate and precise torque control is a cinch compared to combustion motors. Power density is also ludicrously high with several hundred hp available from a <100lb motor.

If you actually like driving you will freaking love electric. If you love engine noise, get a job in a generating station or something.
Driving a manual is an integral part of my driving enjoyment, but I accept that electric is the future. That being said, without a manual, I probably wonít even bother with a sports car when I eventually go electric, unless they raise speed limits.
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      05-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #10
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Driving a manual is an integral part of my driving enjoyment
Everyone who says this is driving wrong. Wow, moving a lever around is so much fun, and so hard to do...I don't get it. You car has a throttle and steering wheel which can make the car dance at the limit. The pleasure in driving rests in those controls, and occasionally the brake. Shifting should be a complete afterthought best avoided.
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      05-23-2019, 04:42 PM   #11
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I hear about the demise of internal combustion and it makes me think of the mid 50's predictions from the US Geologic Survey that we would run out of oil globally before the end of the 70's (if memory serves). Like that happened.
But, I also know from my first days in the Li ion battery business to my departure from that area 10 years later that the rate of advancement in technology and economics was stupendous and continues to be so. In the late 90's my boss and I differed over his view that lithium technology would never support power tool demand. And where are we today?
My belief is that ICE will continue to be a dominant power source for at least the next ten years but do not underestimate science and industry in their ability to meet the consumer's desires once they are clear (whether that be ICE or electric).

Last edited by blue135; 05-23-2019 at 04:45 PM.. Reason: add words
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      05-23-2019, 04:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Everyone who says this is driving wrong. Wow, moving a lever around is so much fun, and so hard to do...I don't get it. You car has a throttle and steering wheel which can make the car dance at the limit. The pleasure in driving rests in those controls, and occasionally the brake. Shifting should be a complete afterthought best avoided.
It takes more skill to shift a manual transmission properly than any other facet of driving a car unless you are a professional racer on the limit. Even then, a proper heel-toe downshift is one of the most difficult things you can master. The constant focus on shifting heightens your senses and makes you appreciate the art of driving.

Sometimes I like driving my Mustang because it's so easy that I can tune out. It's still a manual, but the torque makes driving effortless. I grew tired of this and missed the actual pleasure of driving. That's why I specifically sought out my 128. It's engaging, high-strung, and commands your full attention--always. Some people just like to work for it.

Last edited by Thunderguts; 05-23-2019 at 04:54 PM..
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      05-23-2019, 05:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Everyone who says this is driving wrong. Wow, moving a lever around is so much fun, and so hard to do...I don't get it. You car has a throttle and steering wheel which can make the car dance at the limit. The pleasure in driving rests in those controls, and occasionally the brake. Shifting should be a complete afterthought best avoided.
Nope. Some people enjoy mastering the journey as much as the destination. Iíve been driving a manual since the Ď90s, yet I still pale in comparison to Senna, so I keep practicing the art of heel/toe and left foot braking:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVkVB3SUf4

p.s. I also wear a hand-wound mechanical watch, listen to records, prefer fly fishing to spin cast, prefer playing drums over programming a drum
machine, etc., so I guess itís just my personality.

Last edited by duder13; 05-23-2019 at 05:52 PM..
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      05-23-2019, 06:32 PM   #14
The Wind Breezes
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It takes more skill to shift a manual transmission properly than any other facet of driving a car unless you are a professional racer on the limit. Even then, a proper heel-toe downshift is one of the most difficult things you can master.
Ohhh my. Millions of truck drivers, many of whom aren't that bright, learn to not only drive big rigs but shift them clutchless in a few days. And you can learn to competently heel toe a car on track with a few hours of practice. Maybe you haven't had the practice, but that's a separate issue. These skills are not difficult.

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Nope. Some people enjoy mastering the journey as much as the destination.
The first car I owned was manual because I wanted to become competent at driving a manual. I loved learning to drive manual, and when I got on track I loved learning how heel-toe actually works. But none of it took very long to learn or was difficult. I knew that my future performance cars are better off being sequential or sans-transmission. And that is exactly the world I live in now.

Go to the track and you too can learn to shift like Senna.
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      05-23-2019, 07:07 PM   #15
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Ohhh my. Millions of truck drivers, many of whom aren't that bright, learn to not only drive big rigs but shift them clutchless in a few days. And you can learn to competently heel toe a car on track with a few hours of practice. Maybe you haven't had the practice, but that's a separate issue. These skills are not difficult.



The first car I owned was manual because I wanted to become competent at driving a manual. I loved learning to drive manual, and when I got on track I loved learning how heel-toe actually works. But none of it took very long to learn or was difficult. I knew that my future performance cars are better off being sequential or sans-transmission. And that is exactly the world I live in now.

Go to the track and you too can learn to shift like Senna.
I do go to the track, and Iím sure youíre no Senna, unless maybe Iím talking to some kind of champion rally car driver and donít know it. If you watch foot cams of Senna and rally car drivers and think itís no big deal, youíre either gifted, or weíre dealing with the Lake Wobegon effect. Besides, even if I was as good as them, Iíd still enjoy doing it on a daily basis. Itís just one more way to be connected to the car.
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      05-23-2019, 08:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by bobdavisnpf View Post
An EV 1er seems like a great idea to me. Conmcept in 2009 - why isn't it in production, like, 7 years ago? An EV 1er convertible would be a perfect driving machine to me. I don't need to operate an ICE to have a blast driving this car.
Wasn't just a concept, it was in very limited production. Someone in my office had one with the circuit board paint job but I never found out who.

4,000lbs and a 94 mile range, not too impressive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_ActiveE
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      05-23-2019, 09:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Driving a manual is an integral part of my driving enjoyment
Everyone who says this is driving wrong. Wow, moving a lever around is so much fun, and so hard to do...I don't get it. You car has a throttle and steering wheel which can make the car dance at the limit. The pleasure in driving rests in those controls, and occasionally the brake. Shifting should be a complete afterthought best avoided.
People are different you know and enjoy different things about the same topic. I don't know why you think everyone should think like you.
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      05-23-2019, 09:33 PM   #18
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Damn, that looks fun!
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      05-23-2019, 09:53 PM   #19
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Senna
Shifting is just not that hard. A lot of people can shift as competently as Senna and some with that "fast-twitch" can surely do it even faster and just as precisely. But of those people, very very few have the whole package and can drive as well as Senna. That's because driving and controlling a car is literally thousands of times more complicated than shifting.

Senna is famous because he was really damn fast, won races, and knew a lot about going fast that other pros didn't. He actually understood wet surfaces. Unless you or your opponents are incompetent, shifting while racing is something to not fuck up, not a place to make time.
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      05-23-2019, 10:11 PM   #20
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Shifting is just not that hard. A lot of people can shift as competently as Senna and some with that "fast-twitch" can surely do it even faster and just as precisely. But of those people, very very few have the whole package and can drive as well as Senna. That's because driving and controlling a car is literally thousands of times more complicated than shifting.

Senna is famous because he was really damn fast, won races, and knew a lot about going fast that other pros didn't. He actually understood wet surfaces. Unless you or your opponents are incompetent, shifting while racing is something to not fuck up, not a place to make time.
I never said it was about making time. I said it was about fun, since we're not talking about actual race cars dependent on times.

Shifting isn't hard in a vacuum. It's the ballet of controlling the car with three pedals that makes it more fun, because, yes, it's one more thing to fuck up.

Catching fish with a fly rod is fun, too, although I'd be much more successful with a grenade.

FWIW, even Lewis Hamilton wishes F1 would go back to three pedals, but, of course, heís apparently not quite the driver you are.

Last edited by duder13; 05-23-2019 at 10:27 PM..
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      05-23-2019, 10:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes View Post
Everyone who says this is driving wrong. Wow, moving a lever around is so much fun, and so hard to do...I don't get it. You car has a throttle and steering wheel which can make the car dance at the limit. The pleasure in driving rests in those controls, and occasionally the brake. Shifting should be a complete afterthought best avoided.
It's almost like people have different opinions than you.

I will always want a three pedal, H pattern manual in my sports cars. It's just more fun to row gears to me. A lot of folks feel that way. Just a preference.
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      05-24-2019, 12:31 AM   #22
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Meh. Not worth arguing about. People who want to go faster with minimal effort and input will love electric cars. Those who actually enjoy driving will keep our slow, inefficient, and infinitely more engaging ICE automobiles alive as long as it's feasible.
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