Motortrend - Camaro ZL1 First Drive Review

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Never said the Camaro was clunky. The GT-R is clunky.

Might wanna reword your post then

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Satan'sChariot

All new car pricing is out of control.

You can say that again.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

As I will be in the market in a year or so, I won't be missing out on much if I go with the GT3 RS. I'll still be waiting on the new GT500 to hit the market if more updates become available.

Saw an ad for one at a local Toyota dealer this morning. Somebody must've traded it for a few Camry's

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0132/overview/

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Do I want to own a Z/28 or ZL1? No. I'd stick with the 2017 Camaro 1LE because thats my preference.

I'm right with you. If all goes as planned, I'll have a 1SS 1LE by summer.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Never said the Camaro was clunky. The GT-R is clunky.

Was confusing.

Anyway, the GT500 might be an actual driver's car, as opposed to the last version, but the GT500 is usually more about the straight line, I was under the impression that the new GT350 was the rough equivalent of the BOSS. The BOSS was a futile attempt to try and overcome the inherent limitations of solid rear axles. GT350/R is actually a damn good effort by Ford.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Saw an ad for one at a local Toyota dealer this morning. Somebody must've traded it for a few Camry's

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0132/overview/

That is crazy to trade in the GT3 for a Toyota. Who knows what happened to their financial situation. She is a beauty that is for sure


Sorry for thread jacking.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Was confusing.

Anyway, the GT500 might be an actual driver's car, as opposed to the last version, but the GT500 is usually more about the straight line, I was under the impression that the new GT350 was the rough equivalent of the BOSS. The BOSS was a futile attempt to try and overcome the inherent limitations of solid rear axles. GT350/R is actually a damn good effort by Ford.

I should have worded it better no doubt. I am not impressed with the GT350 as much I would like to be. I would rather have the Mustang Roush Stage 3 with 670hp. I don't like the seats in it though because they're stiff when I test drove it this past summer.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

I should have worded it better no doubt. I am not impressed with the GT350 as much I would like to be. I would rather have the Mustang Roush Stage 3 with 670hp. I don't like the seats in it though because they're stiff when I test drove it this past summer.

I'm much more about turning performance than raw straight line. Different horses for different courses.

But IMO, this is where GM has made inroads in the last 10 years. IMO, all of a sudden, one day, they "figured it out". I don't see this as too surprising, as given the level of communication we have as a world these days, it's not like one part of the world can indefinitely churn out something that no one else can replicate. American cars were jokes for so long, in terms of the handling, the engines, and everything else. Not all european cars were great, some were rust buckets and some had more faults than you can shake a stick at, but the ones that were good were just far and away better than anything american manufacturers could match. I know a lot of designers were stuck in old-mindsets and corporate culture that prevented thinking outside the box or making something that actually performs well (head of GM ergonomics taught one of my classes, and that was before they started churning out these vehicles). Now, the ATS out-handles 3 series, the one thing the 3 series was so famous for, being a competent handling car that was just good to drive, is the thing it's beaten at. It's a great time to live to have this much competition, but I still see a lot of people with the same old perceptions. Lots of people at work that assume because I have a BMW that it does something magical or special, when my previous american car out-handled the hell out of it and was better in every way that matters (for performance). Some people just can't understand that, even after you explain to them why. They fall back on "but it's a BMW" and how it must have some sort of hidden power or something.

[Vigilante375]

The ZL1 and Z/28 are going to destroy the GT350R on the road course. I had high hopes for that car but its not that great other than the flat plane crank, high revving engine that everyone loves.

A 1LE handles just as good as a GT350R. This years Lightning Lap, the 1LE was only a couple of seconds behind a track oriented car.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

The ZL1 and Z/28 are going to destroy the GT350R on the road course. I had high hopes for that car but its not that great other than the flat plane crank, high revving engine that everyone loves.

A 1LE handles just as good as a GT350R. This years Lightning Lap, the 1LE was only a couple of seconds behind a track oriented car.

Not sure what kind of hopes you had for the 350R. Didn't it beat the M4 GTS and the Cayman GT4 in the Lightning Lap? Don't both of those cars cost almost double what the Ford costs? Maybe you need to be more realistic.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Not sure what kind of hopes you had for the 350R. Didn't it beat the M4 GTS and the Cayman GT4 in the Lightning Lap? Don't both of those cars cost almost double what the Ford costs? Maybe you need to be more realistic.

Considering the car is track oriented car,with no back seats, carbon fiber wheels, MRS, very good tires and no A/C or radio (but you can add it). I was expecting it to do very good. At least beating the last gen Z/28 but at least 1 second.

Maybe the 1LE was a little too much to say. Now, the last gen Z/28 still laps better. It is heavier and has less HP. You can say it is more expensive by $10k but lots of people bought theirs at or under the $60k price due to the 20% off. Since no one thought it was worth the price or would be that better than a ZL1.

The M4 GTS is like triple the price and Cayman is ~$20k more. Though Porsche always add $$$ to cars like that so its probably triple the price as well. The GT4 would be the only one that I would have thought would be at or better that the GT350R. Though the track oriented GT350R should beat the daily driver GT4.

And people always compared cars that cost less money to more expensive cars all the time. But if I need to be realistic, then the same priced ZL1 that is a daily driver vehicle, will destroy the same priced GT350R.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Considering the car is track oriented car,with no back seats, carbon fiber wheels, MRS, very good tires and no A/C or radio (but you can add it). I was expecting it to do very good. At least beating the last gen Z/28 but at least 1 second.

Maybe the 1LE was a little too much to say. Now, the last gen Z/28 still laps better. It is heavier and has less HP. You can say it is more expensive by $10k but lots of people bought theirs at or under the $60k price due to the 20% off. Since no one thought it was worth the price or would be that better than a ZL1.

The M4 GTS is like triple the price and Cayman is ~$20k more. Though Porsche always add $$$ to cars like that so its probably triple the price as well. The GT4 would be the only one that I would have thought would be at or better that the GT350R. Though the track oriented GT350R should beat the daily driver GT4.

And people always compared cars that cost less money to more expensive cars all the time. But if I need to be realistic, then the same priced ZL1 that is a daily driver vehicle, will destroy the same priced GT350R.

It remains to be seen whether the ZL1 will "destroy" the GT350R. Looking at the Lightning Lap times, if the ZL1 destroys the GT350R, it will also beat the Corvette Grand Sport, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488GTB, and even possibly match the Viper ACR. Not sure if the big ZL1 is that good on a road course.

Also, the Cayman is not ~$20K more than the GT350R. The difference is more than $40K, as tested in the Lightning Lap.

I was really just replying to your statement that the GT350R is "just not that great." That's fine if it's your opinion, but if the GT350R is $65K, and not that great, where does that leave the $105K Porsche Cayman or the $134K M4 GTS, both of which the Ford beat on the race track?

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by wjones14

It remains to be seen whether the ZL1 will "destroy" the GT350R. Looking at the Lightning Lap times, if the ZL1 destroys the GT350R, it will also beat the Corvette Grand Sport, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, McLaren 570S, Ferrari 488GTB, and even possibly match the Viper ACR. Not sure if the big ZL1 is that good on a road course.

Also, the Cayman is not ~$20K more than the GT350R. The difference is more than $40K, as tested in the Lightning Lap.

I was really just replying to your statement that the GT350R is "just not that great." That's fine if it's your opinion, but if the GT350R is $65K, and not that great, where does that leave the $105K Porsche Cayman or the $134K M4 GTS, both of which the Ford beat on the race track?

Only "real" comparison is the 'Ring. Where the ZL1 did it in 7:29 while the GT350R did it in 7:32. So sources say for the GT350R. Either way, the ZL1 is over 11 seconds quicker than last gen, so chalk that up to the extra power I suppose. For being a heavy car, it can handle very well compared to lighter cars. People tend to miss that.

Funny thing, the M4 GTS did it in 7:27. I guess its better suited on a more open track than a closer, tighter turning one.

Base price for the GT4 is in the mid $80k range but go off the Lightning Lap its at the $97k mark.

Honestly, the GT350R is at a good price but I just had higher hopes for it. Seeing how well the last gen Z/28 had done. It did go around the 'Ring in 7:37 but that was on a wet track at the end and everyone had said if it was a ideal condition track, the car would have been at the 7:30 mark.

[David70]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

That being said, for some reason the Camaro never does it for me. I'd rather get a Vette Grand Sport with Z07 pack.. they are about the same money. Starts from 65,640.

I wonder about this choice also and not sure which I would take. Main problem I see is the big difference in hp, Grand Sport with 460 hp or the ZL1 with 650 hp.