Horsepower Rating

[VO695]

Does anyone know why the US 1M is rated at 335 hp and the European version is rated at 340 hp?

[hybris4u]

Europeans are always more powerful! You should now! ;-)

[clived]

It isn't. It's rated 340ps.

[1SerieStud]

Not only that, but the car is quite underrated...multiple owners who dyno'ed have already reported numbers higher than those advertised at the crank, but at the wheels!

[Fundahl]

I made 298whp in 80F weather on a Mustang Dyne stock. At 15% drivtrain loss that equals 343hp at the flywheel.

So yes, slightly under-rated

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

I made 298whp in 80F weather on a Mustang Dyne stock. At 15% drivtrain loss that equals 343hp at the flywheel.

So yes, slightly under-rated

I can't speak for my car, but others have reported higher power at the wheels than what you described. If not mistaken, I believe the power loss on a mustang Dyno is higher than 15% - this is the typical figure for dynojets.

[terrybGT3]

380bhp at the crank, prior to DMS remap

[Franklin Joseph]

Haha...mine dynoed @ 298 whp on a mustang dyno. iirc HPA also dynoed around the same on a mustang dyno.

Originally Posted by Fundahl

I made 298whp in 80F weather on a Mustang Dyne stock. At 15% drivtrain loss that equals 343hp at the flywheel.

So yes, slightly under-rated

[l888apex]

Mustang Dyno #s are lower, but more accurate because it load bearing unlike a Dynojet.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by l888apex

Mustang Dyno #s are lower, but more accurate because it load bearing unlike a Dynojet.

Exactly, but I will not get into that here.

If you want real numbers, get on a real load-based dyne.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

Haha...mine dynoed @ 298 whp on a mustang dyno. iirc HPA also dynoed around the same on a mustang dyno.

Proof of the consistency of the Mustang Dynamometer.

[Dan Parker]

326 hp/365 tq at the wheels stock.

Typical German conservatism.
See Mazda for the opposite (at a cost)

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by VO695

Does anyone know why the US 1M is rated at 335 hp and the European version is rated at 340 hp?

not sure how this turned into a pissing match over what dyno is better than another....... but to get back on point... One reason that cars sometimes have different ratings in the US vs Europe is because they figure used for hp is a different figure.


HP in Germany is metric hp which is different from Imperial (SAE) HP in the US.

See the following Wiki article..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower



Units called "horsepower" have differing definitions:

• The mechanical horsepower, also known as imperial horsepower, of exactly 550 foot-pounds per second is approximately equivalent to 745.7 watts.
• The metric horsepower of 75 kgf-m per second is approximately equivalent to 735.499 watts

and of course there is PS

This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America, Japan and India especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English horsepower, but mathematically different from the British unit.
DIN 66036 defines one horsepower to lift a mass of 75 kilograms within one second against the earth gravitation over a distance of one metre.[10] Similar definitions were already common to the time of James Watt.
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit. It is still in use for commercial and advertising purposes, in addition to the kW rating, as many customers are still not familiar with the use of kilowatts for engines.



How to Convert DIN HP to SAE


Divide the DIN HP by 1.0139 to find the SAE. This is to account for the small difference between testing methods.


In most cases, the difference in DIN HP and SAE is so negligible that the two numbers are interchangeable and engineers don't use the formula to find the actual difference

[Simsims]

horses in europe are weaker.

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

Haha...mine dynoed @ 298 whp on a mustang dyno. iirc HPA also dynoed around the same on a mustang dyno.

296 on Mustang, so definitely consistent.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by tkbr0wn

296 on Mustang, so definitely consistent.

More proof.

And it never was my intention to have a "pissing match", just sharing true information with fellow enthusiasts. The BMW rating makes sense if you use a Mustang Dyne.

[HT1000]

SAE vs. DIN

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

More proof.

And it never was my intention to have a "pissing match", just sharing true information with fellow enthusiasts. The BMW rating makes sense if you use a Mustang Dyne.

More proof (that you are wanting to start a pissing match) Indeed!

Three dynos of three engines doesn't show consistency of the machine, if anything it may show consistency of the motors being built. If three people jump up and say their cars ran 315hp on three dynos (insert your favorite brand here). , that says nothing about the machine, but only tells us that three out of 800-1000 motors made the same power. Big deal.

Running the SAME car on three machines and having then all produce the same number would show consistency of the machine(s). I declined to state this earlier, but apparently the obvious needed to be stated.

[tkbr0wn]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

More proof (that you are wanting to start a pissing match) Indeed!

Three dynos of three engines doesn't show consistency of the machine, if anything it may show consistency of the motors being built. If three people jump up and say their cars ran 315hp on three dynos (insert your favorite brand here). , that says nothing about the machine, but only tells us that three out of 800-1000 motors made the same power. Big deal.

Running the SAME car on three machines and having then all produce the same number would show consistency of the machine(s). I declined to state this earlier, but apparently the obvious needed to be stated.

I don't quite agree with your assessment.

Three different cars on same machine with equal numbers = consistent engines

The same car on three different machines with equal numbers = consistent machines.

Three different cars on three different machines with equal numbers = could be consistent machines, consistent engines, or both.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Simsims

horses in europe are weaker.

Yea... but the Japanese (JIS DIN) have the smallest ponies.

[biggles]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

not sure how this turned into a pissing match over what dyno is better than another....... but to get back on point... One reason that cars sometimes have different ratings in the US vs Europe is because they figure used for hp is a different figure.


HP in Germany is metric hp which is different from Imperial (SAE) HP in the US.

See the following Wiki article..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower



Units called "horsepower" have differing definitions:

• The mechanical horsepower, also known as imperial horsepower, of exactly 550 foot-pounds per second is approximately equivalent to 745.7 watts.
• The metric horsepower of 75 kgf-m per second is approximately equivalent to 735.499 watts

and of course there is PS

This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America, Japan and India especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English horsepower, but mathematically different from the British unit.
DIN 66036 defines one horsepower to lift a mass of 75 kilograms within one second against the earth gravitation over a distance of one metre.[10] Similar definitions were already common to the time of James Watt.
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit. It is still in use for commercial and advertising purposes, in addition to the kW rating, as many customers are still not familiar with the use of kilowatts for engines.



How to Convert DIN HP to SAE


Divide the DIN HP by 1.0139 to find the SAE. This is to account for the small difference between testing methods.


In most cases, the difference in DIN HP and SAE is so negligible that the two numbers are interchangeable and engineers don't use the formula to find the actual difference

Just out of interest why would there be a difference between an English measurement and a British one? Have we in England declared independence from the rest of Britain without anyone telling me?

The traditional bhp unit of measurement differs very slightly from PS. Manufacturers over here in England (that's also Britain) tend to quote power in whichever suits their marketing needs. Most German makers quote in ps these days but the difference is minimal anyway.

[M3Power79]

I did a run on a very expensive and accurate dyno during break in ( 1400 km's ) and it did 339,9 PS & 534 Nm at crank.