The 135 is boring.

[uofmtiger]

The Fit is much more practical than a 135 (better fuel economy, more space, cheaper to maintain)

I think the 135i appeals to people that want something more than a Fit can offer on a daily commute. I would not want to drive something that slow everyday.

There are too many needs for a burst of speed where I live. For example, when I blend from one highway onto another, I have to get over three lanes or I will miss my exit. It is nice knowing that I have the speed at my disposal when I need it.

If you are happy driving a Fit everyday and having a Miata on the weekend, that is your perogative. However, I doubt that many BMW 1 series owners would want to drive a Fit everyday. I know I wouldn't.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by silversh

Along the same lines, I suppose you could recommend a 128i and a sportbike for the money -- all the luxury and ride for 95% of driving, and when you really need to feel that rush....

Very true. Though i wouldn't get any 1 series or 3 series if i only wanted a luxury ride. Both are too stiff and not floaty enough for luxury wafting. Let alone the interiors, while nice, are not exactly luxury.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by whya1?

The Miata is more fun than a 135 (convertible, lightweight, nimble handling).
I never compared the 135's practicallity to a miata; only a miata to a sport bike.

Fun is subjective; some people will find the 135i more fun.
But there's the rub: You should compare the 135i's practicality to the Miata, if you would do the same of Miata vs sportbike. Refusal to do so indicates bias.

And if you care so much about image, then why would you even consider the 1er in the first place? If an M3 or M5 were dropped in your lap would you hesitate and say "Nice car, but, err...hmm...I'm afraid of what the negative image implies, so no thanks?" Anti badge snobbery is no better than badge snobbery. But hey, go ahead and let your shame consume you; more cars for the rest of us. :biggrin:

[uofmtiger]

Very true. Though i wouldn't get any 1 series or 3 series if i only wanted a luxury ride. Both are too stiff and not floaty enough for luxury wafting. Let alone the interiors, while nice, are not exactly luxury.

The 1 is a combination of performance and luxury. No one else has a better combination at this price point. If you want only luxury, I guess you could get better, but you would sacrifice performance. The 135i is a great daily driver because of its ability to combine both. It is for people that want to get more performance for less money than the 335i.

BMW has a long track record of making the right trade offs, so they attract a lot of buyers because of that reputation.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by uofmtiger

The 1 is a combination of performance and luxury. No one else has a better combination at this price point. If you want only luxury, I guess you could get better, but you would sacrifice performance. The 135i is a great daily driver because of its ability to combine both. It is for people that want to get more performance for less money than the 335i.

BMW has a long track record of making the right trade offs, so they attract a lot of buyers because of that reputation.

I agree with everything EXCEPT the phrase "it is for people that want to get more performance for less money than the 335i."

The money you save comes off in standard equipment, size and styling. It is not added in performance. It is cheaper, it isn't faster. At least not in any significant way that you could drive both blindfolded (i don't recommend it) and tell the difference between the two. They are very similar dynamically.

If they were equipped the same and priced the same the vast majority of buyers would go for the 3 over the 1. They should have made the 1 lighter, cheaper and less powerful to differentiate it more from the 3. Give it more "feel" and less brute force. That lack of feel is why people complain about both 3 and 1 and then trade them in.

[uofmtiger]

Originally Posted by whya1?

I agree with everything EXCEPT the phrase "it is for people that want to get more performance for less money than the 335i."

The money you save comes off in standard equipment, size and styling. It is not added in performance. It is cheaper, it isn't faster. At least not in any significant way that you could drive both blindfolded (i don't recommend it) and tell the difference between the two. They are very similar dynamically.

If they were equipped the same and priced the same the vast majority of buyers would go for the 3 over the 1. They should have made the 1 lighter, cheaper and less powerful to differentiate it more from the 3. Give it more "feel" and less brute force. That lack of feel is why people complain about both 3 and 1 and then trade them in.

Well, here is a side-by-side comparison from Edmunds:

Our judgment is swayed by the 335i's powerful engine and elegant chassis tuning every time we sit behind the wheel. It has a sublime ride quality that comes from its ability to mute road harshness, and yet it can deliver just-right control feel and response. But in this company, the BMW 335i seems almost overwrought. At speed, things happen more slowly in the 335i. Its responses are perfectly quick enough among its competition in the luxury coupe class, but its additional mass (however little) becomes a liability when compared to the smaller 1 Series and more focused M3.

These disadvantages play out on the drag strip, where the 335i is 0.2 second behind the 135i to 60 mph (5.0 seconds vs. 5.2 seconds) — a gap that holds to the end of the quarter-mile, where the 135i finishes its run in 13.3 seconds at 104 mph vs. the 335i's performance of 13.5 seconds at 103.7 mph. The M3 is the slowest of this group, running to 60 mph in 5.4 seconds and finishing the quarter-mile in 13.7 seconds at 103.3 mph.

Braking was a wash across the board, with all three cars stopping from 60 mph in 109 feet.

The new E90 3 Series is synonymous with great handling, and it slashed through the slalom cones 0.6 mph quicker than the M3, a testament to BMW's unmatched ability to tune a chassis for both comfort and performance. Here's a car that's utterly soft relative to the M3 and yet still manages to slither between the cones with slightly more speed. Nevertheless, the little 135i did so even faster yet at 72.4 mph.

I will stick by my statement that "it is for people that want to get more performance for less money than the 335i."

They should have made the 1 lighter, cheaper and less powerful to differentiate it more from the 3.

If that would have been the package, I would have stuck with a 3. I like the extra power. I would have bought a 128i if I did not want the twin turbos.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by whya1?

The money you save comes off in standard equipment, size and styling....They are very similar dynamically.

The 135i comes standard with sport suspension, 6-pot Brembos, and M-sport styling kit so you can't really say it's got less standard equipment.
Size...the 135i offers everything the 335i does in a smaller package. This normally means more engineering ingenuity involved, so the price should reflect it (a Lotus is a tiny car, yet is hardly cheap). Remember, price is also a function of production volume, and ability to recoup costs through amortization. The 3er has considerable benefit in this regard.
They are similar, but plenty of reviewers and drivers on this forum have indicated there is a noticeable difference between them.

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by Guibo

The 135i comes standard with sport suspension, 6-pot Brembos, and M-sport styling kit so you can't really say it's got less standard equipment.
Size...the 135i offers everything the 335i does in a smaller package. This normally means more engineering ingenuity involved, so the price should reflect it (a Lotus is a tiny car, yet is hardly cheap). Remember, price is also a function of production volume, and ability to recoup costs through amortization. The 3er has considerable benefit in this regard.
They are similar, but plenty of reviewers and drivers on this forum have indicated there is a noticeable difference between them.

The 335 comes with the same sport suspension and the 6pot Brembos are of questionable benefit over the 335. Braking distances are the same despite the very small weight benefit. The M-sport kit is only necessary because of the styling disaster that is the 1 series.

The 335 comes with upgraded sound system and power seats, both options you have to buy on the 135. So yes, it does come with less standard equipment. The value you place on that equipment might be very low but it still is there.

From my drives i could not tell much of a dynamic difference and the price delta was so small that it wasn't worth the trade offs to get the cheaper 1 for me.

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by Yearofthe1

I'm sorry Balls, but this is hilarious

I never thought I'd hear that as a complaint

I'm not a lazy driver. I like to work for reward. Torque is important and nice, but not at the expense of tractability. Plus the power surge is unpredictable and road irregularities can upset the drive dramatically (under hard acceleration). That's not efficient. It needs a mechanical LSD. I'd prefer a little less torque and no throttle hesitation. Guess I discovered I'm not a turbo guy...

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by anthony@rissracing

If you think this. I know some companies that make a few things for the N54 that may change your mind :headbang:

Power isn't everything. Unless you can remove the lag and get the throttle response of a NA engine with individual throttle bodies you've accomplished little. I'd rather put the money in suspension upgrades. The car's lack of cornering prowess is what I disliked most. Adding power without addressing that is never smart. More power just brings out the handling shortcomings all the more...

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by whya1?

The 335 comes with the same sport suspension and the 6pot Brembos are of questionable benefit over the 335. Braking distances are the same despite the very small weight benefit. The M-sport kit is only necessary because of the styling disaster that is the 1 series.

The 335 comes with upgraded sound system and power seats, both options you have to buy on the 135. So yes, it does come with less standard equipment. The value you place on that equipment might be very low but it still is there.

From my drives i could not tell much of a dynamic difference and the price delta was so small that it wasn't worth the trade offs to get the cheaper 1 for me.

I dont want to be rude but you seem to be here to stir up #%#% you dont have a one and your username is an indication.

I like my one but its not what I tought it would be. When I test drove the 335I I found it boring very boring. The 135I is too easy to drive and the suspension lacks totally. I will probably buy something else next year. For the ones driving an automatic(steptronic) sure the 135 is fun because it has power but for the real enthusiast that pushes on the track or on the backroads its a different story. From the post that I read over here on the board there is probably 5-10% of enthuasiast who will track their cars and the rest are more into looks,comfort,quality of ride or status symbol. To each is own but it stock form its good for the price but I should have gotten that Comp package E46 M3 or used M coupe.

[- andy]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I dont want to be rude but you seem to be here to stir up #%#% you dont have a one and your username is an indication.

I like my one but its not what I tought it would be. When I test drove the 335I I found it boring very boring. The 135I is too easy to drive and the suspension lacks totally. I will probably buy something else next year. For the ones driving an automatic(steptronic) sure the 135 is fun because it has power but for the real enthusiast that pushes on the track or on the backroads its a different story. From the post that I read over here on the board there is probably 5-10% of enthuasiast who will track their cars and the rest are more into looks,comfort,quality of ride or status symbol. To each is own but it stock form its good for the price but I should have gotten that Comp package E46 M3 or used M coupe.

^ I agree with you, I wish I would've gotten an E46 Comp package.

The only thing I like about the 135 is the power. I even added the Dinan Stage 2 to try and see if that would make me forget about my complains in the 135 and even with the extra power, I'm not happy with the car as a total package.

The clutch/transmission have no feel for the driver, the clutch is just too easy to operate.. I've driven E39 M5s/E46 M3s/S52 & 54 M Coupes, these older model BMWs just have a different feel in my opinion and I guess that's what I prefer.

The suspension feel on the car is just terrible in my honest opinion it rolls a lot and the stock tires need replacing obviously we all know that. Coming from the cars Im used to driving in the past (S2000, M Coupe, Evo) the 135s suspension and handling just don't cut it for me.

Sadly to say, I think the 135 may be getting sold pretty soon after driving it for about 5 months and finding that it's not what I thought it was going to be.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by whya1?

The 335 comes with the same sport suspension and the 6pot Brembos are of questionable benefit over the 335. Braking distances are the same despite the very small weight benefit. The M-sport kit is only necessary because of the styling disaster that is the 1 series.
The value you place on that equipment might be very low but it still is there.

It doesn't come with the styling kit ($1195), nor does it have 18" wheels like the 135i.
6-piston brakes are only there for stopping distances? I didn't know that. Is that why Sport Auto rated the 135i's brake pedal feel (you know how you love feel, remember?) 2 points above the 335i? It matched the M3's brake feel rating in that same test. It also outbraked both the M3 and 335i from 100 km/h. Only the 135i and M3 showed no differences in braking distances when the brakes were warm. The 335i took 2 meters longer to stop from 100 km/h than when cold.
Styling disaster? Now I know you're just trolling. The 128i looks perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by whya1?

The value you place on that equipment might be very low but it still is there.

Much like the equipment that's on the 135i but that is not on the 335i.
So you put value on motors in the seat? I thought you were blasting the 135i for being overweight (did you remember to say the same for the even heavier 335i? I may have missed that part:wink, and now you want to add weight to it. Make up your mind.

[LeoHammer]

Originally Posted by - andy

The suspension feel on the car is just terrible in my honest opinion it rolls a lot and the stock tires need replacing obviously we all know that. Coming from the cars Im used to driving in the past (S2000, M Coupe, Evo) the 135s suspension and handling just don't cut it for me.

I agree that the suspension might feel like garbage . . . but that can easily be fixed with aftermarket(gayest word ever) components.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by LeoHammer

I agree that the suspension might feel like garbage . . . but that can easily be fixed with aftermarket(gayest word ever) components.

Thing is I bought the car to try for once in my life not dump a single penny on coilovers,sways etc. Ill take the hit and sell it as I dont feel like corner weighting the suspension etc...what to get is the question

[whya1?]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Thing is I bought the car to try for once in my life not dump a single penny on coilovers,sways etc. Ill take the hit and sell it as I dont feel like corner weighting the suspension etc...what to get is the question

BINGO. I had a 335 coupe for 4 months. Wanted to get something that i wouldn't need to constantly upgrade. Won over with the torque on a test drive but that was all there was. I tried a 135 but it was more of the same. 335 is sold and the 135 is not a substantial improvement. Especially for the low price difference. The 135 IS a bit rougher and sporty but only a bit. Not anywhere close to a "drivers" car.

The problem with BMW is that they sanded all of the rough edges off the cars to appeal to the greatest number of buyers. Sad but true. I can't fault them for the business decision; i would rather sell 100 cars to people who want a badge then 5 cars to people who want that edge. So the majority of people will think i am crazy for getting rid of a new BMW that is so "sporty" but I think it is crazy to spend 40k on a car and then another 5k making it right. Those who love their 135 probably have either never experienced a more raw car or they just have no interest in one.

[imported_mega]

it's more of a drivers car than any other car in the bmw line up except the new M3

I've experienced more raw, much more than the 135i, but I love the 135i

[MVF4Rrider]

Originally Posted by mega

it's more of a drivers car than any other car in the bmw line up except the new M3

I've experienced more raw, much more than the 135i, but I love the 135i

The Z4 M is the most driver's car of all BMWs by a long shot, including the new M3. Even the Z4 3.0si is more than the 135i if you care about handling, feedback, and agility. The 135i/335i fall short, so with those out the way, the new M3 also falls short of a pure driver's car mainly due to the new technologies which have the car driving you, not the other way around. Ultimately BMW could only do so much with the 1's current platform. Perhaps the next generation 1 will be the driver's car some think it is today??? Doubtful though as the new Z4 will also fall fate to too many modern conveniences, automations, and driver's aids.

[imported_mega]

I dont like the z4 at all it feels like your steering the hood

every new bmw falls short on steering if it's got electric steering, it makes the center of the wheel feel dead

[LeoHammer]

I had an '03 Z4 3.0i(with the Remus exhaust) before my 135i, and when I am driving hard, I wish I could have it back

[imported_mega]

I feel the same way about my e30 325is I loved beating on that car, it did everything just right

the 2002 I had was just a little too raw, and you really dont feel very safe in these

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by whya1?

BINGO. I had a 335 coupe for 4 months. Wanted to get something that i wouldn't need to constantly upgrade. Won over with the torque on a test drive but that was all there was. I tried a 135 but it was more of the same. 335 is sold and the 135 is not a substantial improvement. Especially for the low price difference. The 135 IS a bit rougher and sporty but only a bit. Not anywhere close to a "drivers" car.

The problem with BMW is that they sanded all of the rough edges off the cars to appeal to the greatest number of buyers. Sad but true. I can't fault them for the business decision; i would rather sell 100 cars to people who want a badge then 5 cars to people who want that edge. So the majority of people will think i am crazy for getting rid of a new BMW that is so "sporty" but I think it is crazy to spend 40k on a car and then another 5k making it right. Those who love their 135 probably have either never experienced a more raw car or they just have no interest in one.

Originally Posted by whya1?

I know for a fact that the 335 gets pretty terrible city mileage. Hanging out with a friend all weekend with a 335 with 50% city/50% highway and our combined mileage was only 18.5mpg. And we never really even pushed it. Turbos are thirsty.

I dont want to sound like an ass but did you ever said something valuable about the one I feel that youre trolling. Did you had or were a passenger in the 335?