1 Series M Coupe First Drive

[Evice]

Originally Posted by formula M

Not a race tuned M car!

I think you are dreaming a bit here.

Originally Posted by formula M

Components don't make the car, it is how they are tuned and engineered to work with each other that matters.

That's exactly the point. Those components are created for M3, they work on/for M3, now they are just fitted to 1M, and in my opinion there lies the problem. If this car came out with a unique engine with same M3 parts, people wouldn't be that dissapointed.

[theblackangus]

Originally Posted by Evice

If this car came out with a unique engine with same M3 parts, people wouldn't be that dissapointed.

Why are people so stuck on the unique engine?
Doesn't the N54 with TT perform well enough?
Its one of the best mid-range engines I've driven.

[///Mangler]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Interesting. Imagine if the 1M was fitted with two of the twin scroll blowers from the N55.

You mean three twin scrolls.......like the tri turbo diesel they have.

T

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

You mean three twin scrolls.......like the tri turbo diesel they have.

T

No, thinking more of the turbo used in the N55.

[HERR FSTIR]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Interesting. Imagine if the 1M was fitted with two of the twin scroll blowers from the N55.

I believe this is not possible (or at least extremely difficult) on a six cylinder engine.

[Future M1 owner]

Possible, but not based on sound engineering principles.

[BBK]

Originally Posted by theblackangus

Why are people so stuck on the unique engine?
Doesn't the N54 with TT perform well enough?
Its one of the best mid-range engines I've driven.

Yes the N54 can perform well enough, but we aren't paying for a *35 model. We are paying for an M model. If they were going to go half assed they should have called this the 135M.

This car will be good. No doubt about it. That isn't my issue, and probably not anyones issue. What the problem IS, is that this car could have been so much better. But because M3 owners have egos, and they are trying to keep budget down, the 1M will never be the car it should be...

[Evice]

Originally Posted by formula M

People aren't disappointed, you are. Those truly interested in buying one are delighted with whats surfaced thus far.

Himm.. Not really Mr. Genius. Engine never disappointed me. My only disappointment was that 1M would be a limited production model. And because of this reason I steered away from this car. Quite alot of people were disappointed when they 1st heard engine is N54 based. This is a fact that you can check from the responses 5-6 months ago.

If the engine performance was truly my concern, I wouldn't have picked N52 over N54 from the getgo. Wake up.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Evice

I think you are dreaming a bit here.



That's exactly the point. Those components are created for M3, they work on/for M3, now they are just fitted to 1M, and in my opinion there lies the problem. If this car came out with a unique engine with same M3 parts, people wouldn't be that dissapointed.

+ 1

Originally Posted by M3Power79

I also follow FormulaM point of view. You are talking about some M3bits,suspension, widebody,etc......
Widebody = SHOW , wide track = GO , remember the reartrain from E92 M3?
but in fact we are talking about 2 different cars. The only thing they have in common is their engine (N54/N55)
If we follow your reason we can to de same for 335i(s) and the M3. A 335i will also easily outperform an M3 with some cheap modifications, in a STRAIGHT LINE!
Let us see what will happen in 20 laps endurance race on the Nordschleife.

You should do some research into the 335i and M3 as the engines are vastly different between the 2 cars. The N54 is a straight 6 twin turbo with plenty of low end torque and mid range power. The S65 is a high revving NA V8 which is ideal for the track.

The engines in the 135i and 1M will be based on a very similar platform. As I said earlier, the price difference between these 2 cars is expected to be around $50,000 here in Australia. The 135i is a more than adequate platform to outperform the 1M based on dollar for dollar value if you invested a good amount of money into it.

[Evice]

Originally Posted by formula M

how come nobody has made a 1M'esque mod??

U kidding me? I guess you have no idea about the 1ers out there. They are pushing 400+ HP with reputable LSD and wider track with M3 bits. Explain me what's left out there beyond factory warranty? Are you new to this forum?

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by formula M

I disagree with your whole post.

Your trite approach, to what is equal (vs), is extremely superficial.

For starters, the 135i = 215/40/18's up front, & the 1M = 245/35/19's..! By the time you get done rolling the front fenders and widening the 135i to achieve the handling characteristic this car is sure to have, you end up with an extremely botched "modded" 135i... Not a race tuned M car!

If so, then why hasn't someone done it already?

Originally Posted by formula M

Sadly, u missed his point about modding a 335i. Secondly, can u define "outperform" ..?

No amount of any modded 135i will = a 1M handling, unless you go through some serious cash. And if so... then why haven't you already...?

The 135i has been out 3 years now, how come nobody has made a 1M'esque mod?

There is an overwhelming majority on this forum who have modified their 135i's and it almost always results in an improvement. This is reason we do it in the first place. Aftermarket mods undergo plenty of R&D and are usually designed from the ground-up for our cars and are supported by hard numbers on the dyno or whatever it might be. Aftermarket intakes are possibly the only modification which have been contested on the N54.

If your belief that a 135i with wider tyres, lighter wheels and widebody kit equates to a botched modded 135i, then I don't know where to start.

The 135i is a worthy platform and with enough money and mods it will hang with the 1M. My point was simple, the 135i will give the 1M a good run for it's money if you go down this route. It is a no brainer the 1M will out-perform the 135i stock for stock and it's a no brainer the 1M will come out on top if you start modifying and money is no object.

I am not saying that I am right and you are wrong as I am always open to constructive discussion as this is a place to learn and hear opinions. That being said, your statements are ignorant and your limited contribution to the forum in the past 3 months consists mainly of trolling and unsupported biased claims. Yes I have looked through some of your posts.

I have no desire to engage in any further discussion with you particularly since you have no proof or evidence of ever driving or owning a 135i, M car or any modified car at all to back up any of your arguments.

[Alpine*]

Adding to the debate here, for those of us with a propensity to turn over our cars "too" frequently, there is no point modding a car, aside from maybe wheels (keeping the originals for example). Two reasons, first the cash outlay that is not tax deductable and second resale of a modded car is not that great (the car will generally be worth less than a stock one plus the value of the mods of course).

So for me, unless it is an "out the box" performer I am not interested. In this case the 1M should be, further, it will hold resale well (relatively) IF BMW don't Bull Sh1t us with the limited build numbers.

Just my 2c worth.... and part of the reason I have a deposit down on one and will sell my E92 M if the 1M is as described/hoped to buy it.

[BMW86]

I understand your logic Alpine. Also, modding is time-consuming and at the consumers risk too. I've always thought you had great taste in cars - your 135i, TTS and M3 have all been beauties and I would have bought them all in the same colour too if I could. They are some of my favourites in the sub 180k price range.

I hope someday I'll be in a position to turn over my cars more frequently and not worry about taking a hit but I think my goal for the 135i is to eventually turn it into my track toy and replace the turbos and LSD etc in a couple years time.

My view is that the 135i is already a cracker of a car but it was just missing some of the M finesse so I think the 1M will be a real gem. However, giving up the latest gen M3 might be a tough call though, both are pretty amazing cars in their own right.

[antares600rr]

[Mu Mu]

What amazes me is that people are comparing apples and oranges here. Modded vs stock is not a fair comparison imo. What people are forgetting is that the 1M gets additional bits in the engine department as well. Rumor has it that it has better cooling (+10 points), slightly larger turbos (+15 points) and so forth. BMW M wouldn't just dump an N54 and tune it without some modifications to the engine/cooling etc.

In addition to that, I have to agree with Alpine's post. I am one owner who prefers to keep a car as OEM as possible, aside from slight visual mods...and I personally would never buy a car with heavy mods, as I want the machine to function and be as reliable as it was meant to be from factory. Any tuning would have to be factory approved upgrades otherwise its a no go area for me. Thus, just like the M3 vs 335i (mods), the 1M will always be the winner vs 135 (mods or not).

[as7920]

Originally Posted by Mu Mu

What amazes me is that people are comparing apples and oranges here. Modded vs stock is not a fair comparison imo. What people are forgetting is that the 1M gets additional bits in the engine department as well. Rumor has it that it has better cooling (+10 points), slightly larger turbos (+15 points) and so forth. BMW M wouldn't just dump an N54 and tune it without some modifications to the engine/cooling etc.

In addition to that, I have to agree with Alpine's post. I am one owner who prefers to keep a car as OEM as possible, aside from slight visual mods...and I personally would never buy a car with heavy mods, as I want the machine to function and be as reliable as it was meant to be from factory. Any tuning would have to be factory approved upgrades otherwise its a no go area for me. Thus, just like the M3 vs 335i (mods), the 1M will always be the winner vs 135 (mods or not).

+1

[theplanner]

Originally Posted by AlpineM3E92

Adding to the debate here, for those of us with a propensity to turn over our cars "too" frequently, there is no point modding a car, aside from maybe wheels (keeping the originals for example). Two reasons, first the cash outlay that is not tax deductable and second resale of a modded car is not that great (the car will generally be worth less than a stock one plus the value of the mods of course).

So for me, unless it is an "out the box" performer I am not interested. In this case the 1M should be, further, it will hold resale well (relatively) IF BMW don't Bull Sh1t us with the limited build numbers.

Just my 2c worth.... and part of the reason I have a deposit down on one and will sell my E92 M if the 1M is as described/hoped to buy it.

I agree with your logic here, notwithstanding, the reliability and less workshop time when it is modded.

But interesting that you would sell the M3 for a 1M, what are your reasons?
If it were me, I stick to the M3.

[theplanner]

Originally Posted by BBK

Don't forget this was an Australian review. 135i cost about $76k base price here. M3 Costs about $175k! So a third between is about $105,000 for us Aussies... I doubt it will be that cheap, maybe $110-115k seems more likely.

Well, I kinda agree with you about the pricing BMW seem to keep ripping us aussies off but we still seem to keep buying them.
However, there is alot of competition if they price it to around $115k base model which mean driveaway with a few options will start to look like $120plus creeping to $130k. At that kinda of money with a manual only gearbox, I definitely won't be wasting my money on one. It will be equivalent to buying an Audi TTS at almost the TTRS price.
I may well end up with the TTRS with the DSG gearbox.

[Evice]

This discussion always turns into same previously discussed points, and because of that I don't see any value in it anymore until we see the real car. Modded vs unmodded etc.

However, we can discuss why would a buyer would want to buy 1M while there are really heavy contenders out there. Considering you don't care about backseats, and the price point is around bare-bones $45k, you want a performance car out-of-box, you don't care about modding.

What I am trying to point out is, this car doesn't seem to have at least "1" uber selling point compared to other cars. At least, they have yet to show it to us if there is one.

Ask yourself the questions below if this car is offering anything in these categories;

Lightness: Fail.. not light around 3400lbs.
Performance: Mediocre ...around 340hp, hopefully eager to Rev. not likely.
Options package: Fail.. expected to same as other 1ers.
Balance: Check/Mediocre...Expected to be handling well, but not creating wonders.
Seats: Fail.. Same as 1ers

Now consider these cars;
- 1 year of Porsche Cayman S
- couple years of Z4M
- 1 year of E92 M3
- Mustang 5.0
- Lotus Elise.
- Add to the list if you can think more.

Porsche Cayman S: Ultra performer, brilliant balance!
Z4M Coupe: Proven engine, light(er)
E92 M3: Tasty..V8
Mustang 5.0: Price point, acceptable OOB performance.
Lotus Elise: Light as f#$@, very nimble.

And this list gets abit more complicated when you consider beyond USA where you can find cars like Audi TT RS etc.

So how the heck BMW will sell this car to the younger generation?

I know how;

Create a hype about the car thru splendid marketing then make it limited production because you know you can't sell more than that number when compared to other contenders. Call it a success.

[theblackangus]

Originally Posted by BBK

Yes the N54 can perform well enough, but we aren't paying for a *35 model. We are paying for an M model. If they were going to go half assed they should have called this the 135M.

This car will be good. No doubt about it. That isn't my issue, and probably not anyones issue. What the problem IS, is that this car could have been so much better. But because M3 owners have egos, and they are trying to keep budget down, the 1M will never be the car it should be...

The 1M IS the car it is supposed to be at the price point. What NEW car at the price point has better performance, looks, or heritage?
If the price point was that of the M3 then it would be faster and better.

The problem seems that people want a supercar for a poppers price, which simply isn't going to ever happen.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Mu Mu

What amazes me is that people are comparing apples and oranges here. Modded vs stock is not a fair comparison imo. What people are forgetting is that the 1M gets additional bits in the engine department as well. Rumor has it that it has better cooling (+10 points), slightly larger turbos (+15 points) and so forth. BMW M wouldn't just dump an N54 and tune it without some modifications to the engine/cooling etc.

In addition to that, I have to agree with Alpine's post. I am one owner who prefers to keep a car as OEM as possible, aside from slight visual mods...and I personally would never buy a car with heavy mods, as I want the machine to function and be as reliable as it was meant to be from factory. Any tuning would have to be factory approved upgrades otherwise its a no go area for me. Thus, just like the M3 vs 335i (mods), the 1M will always be the winner vs 135 (mods or not).

The reality is whether you like mods or not, they are very real and very common, especially on cars like the 135i. I can see this scenario playing out at some point down the line...

A 135i and 1M pull up beside each other at a set of lights and decide to have a little friendly fun. Lights go green and off they go. The 1M driver cannot believe his eyes because the 135i takes takes him out by a couple car lengths before they both slow down and exchange thumbs and go on about their business. It turns out this fully modified 135i is running nothing but a simple JB3 or Procede tune. This scenario is played out against M3 owners everyday. Sure you could roll down your window and challenge them to a hot lap at the Nurburgring or boast what times Edmunds got for the 0-60 in their test review but come on. This is stuff people talk about on the forum to make their point.

Before people get carried away, no I do not condone street racing and I don't believe everybody is living their life from street light to street. I know I keep regurgitating the same point which is that it won't take much for the 135i to step on the 1M's toes. In regards to suspension there are plenty of options available too. M cars are the best sports cars BMW make and I can only imagine how much of a beast the 1M will be when we start seeing fully modified 1M's

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by Evice

Lightness: Fail.. not light around 3400lbs.

Safety and amenities add weight. Modern cars in this price point are heavy. We don't know the actual weight yet.

Originally Posted by Evice

Performance: Mediocre ...around 340hp, hopefully eager to Rev. not likely.

0-60 in ~4.5seconds isn't fast enough for you? Lets not forget the torque.

Originally Posted by Evice

Options package: Fail.. expected to same as other 1ers.

Speculation.

Originally Posted by Evice

Balance: Check/Mediocre...Expected to be handling well, but not creating wonders.

The 135 handles quite well once RFT removed. With the M3 pieces, wider track, LSD, etc. the 1M should be very good.

Originally Posted by Evice

Seats: Fail.. Same as 1ers

You dont know this.

End of the day...there is WAY too much speculation on a car that hasn't been released in t's full form yet. Save the judgement for when it is.