[Left Lane News]

Uwe Ellinghaus, marketing director of BMW U.K. said, "Audi customers are closer in age to BMW owners but why should anybody buy a good copy if the genuine product is available?"

http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=297

[jiggax23]

thats a cheap shot... im sure bmw wasnt too happy w/ the infiniti marketing campaign against the 3-series.... but then again, its only one guys opinion and they're not "openly" marketing this view i guess

[stressdoc]

BMW has great engineers. I don't think they waste too much money on the other sides of the business...

[E90-4life]

Originally Posted by Left Lane News

Uwe Ellinghaus, marketing director of BMW U.K. said, "Audi customers are closer in age to BMW owners but why should anybody buy a good copy if the genuine product is available?"

http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=297

Audi engineers need to get it through their thick heads that in order to have a car that has a sporting edge handling wise, the engine needs to be mounted behind the front axle, not in FRONT of it. You'd think that'd be common sense for engineers.

[ZenDriver]

thats a cheap shot

You know, I thik Audi/VW will be OK.

Seriously, this is a multibillion dollar per year industry, they play with big boy rules.

[Thavash]

Originally Posted by E90-4life

Audi engineers need to get it through their thick heads that in order to have a car that has a sporting edge handling wise, the engine needs to be mounted behind the front axle, not in FRONT of it. You'd think that'd be common sense for engineers.

Yup , that's something that really irritates me when I open the bonnet of an Audi and see that. You don't have to be an engineer to see that's it just wrong.

[MCS]

Nice - Even the execs of the cars brands like to take potshots at each other.

This permeates to the drivers talking trash about the other competitors cars. I maintain that the reason there is bashing is "my team is better than yours" type of mentality. Most drivers will rarely ever take their car up to 90-99% of performance envelope and know the mechanical/handling difference between the competitive brands.

Read a recent article about the Z06 that pulls 1.1 Gs. It stated that most normal driver/passengers start getting scared around .4Gs of lateral force. BMW 3 series limit is about .8 - .9

[F32Fleet]

To hear it spoke in english with a thick german accent gives me chills.

[ZenDriver]

"my team is better than yours"

Cars have always been a meaningless dick measuring contest where the performance of the machines in question was always well beyond what was necessary to perform the job of transportation.

And now, we add the fact that consumer product brands have essentially become the new american social values system. Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Infiniti- these are all great cars and we select them based just as much on what that car company's aesthetic value says about us as any other factor (probably more). It is a pretty fucked up world where our self worth is tied so deeply into the badge on the hood of our cars...

[undecided]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Cars have always been a meaningless dick measuring contest where the performance of the machines in question was always well beyond what was necessary to perform the job of transportation.

And now, we add the fact that consumer product brands have essentially become the new american social values system. Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Infiniti- these are all great cars and we select them based just as much on what that car company's aesthetic value says about us as any other factor (probably more). It is a pretty fucked up world where our self worth is tied so deeply into the badge on the hood of our cars...

I mean, I loved the M Coupe, most fun car ever. I also loved my Toyota MR2. I think I am going to love the Z4 M Coupe if/when it comes out. I bet the 335i will be a loveable car too...


CZ

[stressdoc]

It is astonishing that we are so motivated to spend so much of our $ on elite cars. I find it remarkable that so many young listmembers are signing up for pricey leases -- the culture seems to have changed. My priorities were to invest, to build up savings for a house, my kids' education, maybe a great car later on, and maybe early retirement. As a general rule every dollar you invest will at least double in value every ten years.

Now is 'later on', and I agree that the 335i could be one of the classic great cars from my perspective. But it is always tempting to get a civic si and keep the $ invested.

And Audis have engines in front of the axle because VWs do, because that is the most efficient econobox w/ FWD packaging.

[obLu]

Audis have the engine in front of the axle so that the front axle is directly geared off the trasmission. From an engineering perspective this is a lot more elegant than having to run an offset drive shaft off the transmission past the engine block and to the front axle. Might have something to do with the mechanical torsen middle diff too, running the other way they might have to go to a elctrohydralic diff or something like that; Audi hates anything but the mechanical diff.

From a performance perspective it sucks ass. That's why I'm tired of Audi and coming back to BMW ... the damn things understeer going into a corner like a pig rooting around in garbage.

The most effecient econobox fwd packaging is a transverse engine / tranny layout which only the TT uses.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by obLu

The most effecient econobox fwd packaging is a transverse engine / tranny layout which only the TT uses.

That is because the TT is built off the Golf platform like the A3 which is also the only other "Audi" to have a transverse engine.

VW's Passat has gone transverse engine now that is isn't based on the superseded A4 platform any more - it is now a bigger Golf platform. Sheez, soon the Phaeton will be on a Golf platform at the rate VW is going

I read rumours a year ago that Audi were playing with RWD A4 prototypes, perhaps what the real next generation A4 - the B8 will offer... then there would be an interesting competition on our hands.

[Hornet]

Don't know if the B8 A4 will be RWD but I've read somewhere that its engine will be located behind the front axle.
Will it have a transverse engine is another subject. We just have to wait and see.

[mapezzul]

The RS4 is also getting a rear biased Quattro system.... the next gen.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by Hornet

Don't know if the B8 A4 will be RWD but I've read somewhere that its engine will be located behind the front axle.
Will it have a transverse engine is another subject. We just have to wait and see.

I think that VW and Audi split the Passat/A4 platforms for a very good reason that will become apparent with the B8. I could be proven wrong, but if I were to bet, I would say that Audi will stick with their tradition of longitudinal layout.

Last year Audi decided that their image was too cold and that they wanted to inject some emotion and warmth into their brand because they needed to do that to capture their new brand positioning concept of "luxury sports" - sounds strangely like BMW's niche to me, but whatever... anyway, Audi know that they are never going to live up to this brand promise with a FWD car, so they will either need to go all quattro and trickle the RWD biased version from the RS4 (too expensive) or go RWD.

What we have to remember is that VW is a company with a huge ego and a big chip on its shoulder since Mercedes broke the German Gentleman's agreement that VW brands take the low ground and BMW/Merc take the high ground. This rule of engagement was broken when the A Class was released and VW vowed publically to avenge this slap in the face. Hence they have been pushing Audi relentlesly up the food chain, and came out with VWs with stunning leaps in interior quality.

It makes no strategic sense, business wise, to end a perfectly good and cost effective platform sharing arangement between the A4 and Passat unless there was a bigger issue at stake, and I think that issue is the A4 can not compete with the 3 Series and C Class when it's platform has to be engineered with VW's cost needs in mind.

[ssam]

VAG`s new strategy:

VW competes against Mercedes-Benz
Audi against BMW
Lamborghini against Ferrari
Seat and skoda against peugeot/renault/fiat/opel.....

This is why VW did the Phaeton and the Touareg (VW most expensive car ever done) and this is why Audi is getting more aggressive

Do not underestimate the strength of this company.
The best small engine :the new 2.0 Turbo FSI
The best automatic transmission: DSG

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

Cars have always been a meaningless dick measuring contest where the performance of the machines in question was always well beyond what was necessary to perform the job of transportation.

And now, we add the fact that consumer product brands have essentially become the new american social values system. Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Infiniti- these are all great cars and we select them based just as much on what that car company's aesthetic value says about us as any other factor (probably more). It is a pretty fucked up world where our self worth is tied so deeply into the badge on the hood of our cars...

Hm. Someone is in a rat race.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

It is astonishing that we are so motivated to spend so much of our $ on elite cars. I find it remarkable that so many young listmembers are signing up for pricey leases -- the culture seems to have changed. My priorities were to invest, to build up savings for a house, my kids' education, maybe a great car later on, and maybe early retirement. As a general rule every dollar you invest will at least double in value every ten years.

Now is 'later on', and I agree that the 335i could be one of the classic great cars from my perspective. But it is always tempting to get a civic si and keep the $ invested.

And Audis have engines in front of the axle because VWs do, because that is the most efficient econobox w/ FWD packaging.

How do you know any of the members leasing are YOUNG? Have you done a survey? You know the word assume?

Leasing a car isn't that irresponsible nowadays. Just go to bankrate.com and do their lease vs. purchase calculator and get an idea of what you're talking about before making yourself look too ancient.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

It is astonishing that we are so motivated to spend so much of our $ on elite cars. I find it remarkable that so many young listmembers are signing up for pricey leases -- the culture seems to have changed. My priorities were to invest, to build up savings for a house, my kids' education, maybe a great car later on, and maybe early retirement. As a general rule every dollar you invest will at least double in value every ten years.

Now is 'later on', and I agree that the 335i could be one of the classic great cars from my perspective. But it is always tempting to get a civic si and keep the $ invested.

And Audis have engines in front of the axle because VWs do, because that is the most efficient econobox w/ FWD packaging.

This is good and all if you believe in living your life and fulfilling your dreams when you are old.... or you die before you even lived; I learned that you only live once and you should live within your means and save some for later but not to put off today for tomorrow. A family friend had saved a lot and never really splurged or travelled and he died unexpectedly at the ripe old age of 37, what a waste that is.... you never know what is in the future so save for a rainy day but don't put off today for tomorrow, as for the kids(when I have them); I paid for school on my own and put a lot into it since I was paying for it; they can do the same!

[icedragon]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

This is good and all if you believe in living your life and fulfilling your dreams when you are old.... or you die before you even lived; I learned that you only live once and you should live within your means and save some for later but not to put off today for tomorrow. A family friend had saved a lot and never really splurged or travelled and he died unexpectedly at the ripe old age of 37, what a waste that is.... you never know what is in the future so save for a rainy day but don't put off today for tomorrow

I agree, you can't keep saving forever. Sometimes, you just need to treat yourself!

Originally Posted by mapezzul

as for the kids(when I have them); I paid for school on my own and put a lot into it since I was paying for it; they can do the same!

Hmmm, the Western mentality where the kids are left on their own to fend for themselves. Well, I guess your kids won't be driving preppy 3 series in their youth, and you may not be driving that spiffy 7 series in your old age, unless you save enough for a luxurious retirement.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by ssam

VAG`s new strategy:

VW competes against Mercedes-Benz
Audi against BMW
Lamborghini against Ferrari
Seat and skoda against peugeot/renault/fiat/opel.....

This is why VW did the Phaeton and the Touareg (VW most expensive car ever done) and this is why Audi is getting more aggressive

Do not underestimate the strength of this company.
The best small engine :the new 2.0 Turbo FSI
The best automatic transmission: DSG

Good observations. It will be interesting to see what happens when they finally get their sh!t together. So far they have been hampered because the market does not see VW as a premium brand comparable to MB, unlike Audi, which does have a better chance.

If they want to change the perception of the VW brand, it is going to take time. With Audi, start pumping out the good cars with better dynamics and they are there overnight virtually.