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      11-04-2019, 08:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
What does

Go back to where you came from
White nationalists
KKK
Black Lives Matter
MAGA
Brown Pride
White Pride
Segregation just decades ago
Slavery
Confederate Monuments
Neo-Nazis
People calling people "mongoloids" in certain neighborhoods
Trump

Mean then?
It means there is a divide between people of different races.
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      11-04-2019, 08:49 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
That what happens when you cut the roots of a large tree then expect it to stand up to high winds.
I think we are already experiencing that.


The whole MAGA movement is interesting. The country has never been perfect, it's a constant struggle toward an ideal that evolves over time. Women's sufferage, abolitionism, anti-segregation, these are corrections to things we got wrong and move forward from. MAGA is a political platform based on the idea that America isn't great anymore and that we need to go back to make it great again. This is an idea based on going backwards, a regression. What was so great about the past except that women were expected to shut up and minorities were discriminated against. Is that how far back we are supposed to go? Maybe it's the excess of the 80's that created more of a gap between the classes and led to a huge crushing recession? What was so great about that? Maybe it's the 70's? 60's? When does MAGA want to step back to? Where does conservatism want to go back to?

A dying ideology isn't the wrong ideology. Maybe it's the root that was cut and the tree now sways in the wind. It's quite possible that the progress in progressivness isn't completely without its merits.
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      11-04-2019, 09:20 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I think we are already experiencing that.


The whole MAGA movement is interesting. The country has never been perfect, it's a constant struggle toward an ideal that evolves over time. Women's sufferage, abolitionism, anti-segregation, these are corrections to things we got wrong and move forward from. MAGA is a political platform based on the idea that America isn't great anymore and that we need to go back to make it great again. This is an idea based on going backwards, a regression. What was so great about the past except that women were expected to shut up and minorities were discriminated against. Is that how far back we are supposed to go? Maybe it's the excess of the 80's that created more of a gap between the classes and led to a huge crushing recession? What was so great about that? Maybe it's the 70's? 60's? When does MAGA want to step back to? Where does conservatism want to go back to?

A dying ideology isn't the wrong ideology. Maybe it's the root that was cut and the tree now sways in the wind. It's quite possible that the progress in progressivness isn't completely without its merits.
I disagree wirh this assessment of the maga movement, it mainly correcting mistakes we have made.

We made deals with nations to their benefit in return for influence to counter the soviet block, those treaty became obsolete when the soviet union fell and never adjusted

Abortion is another wrong that needs to be fix

Uncontrolled immigration is another problem that we didn't have prior that needs to be address

China is a major mistake that we need to address

And on and on. Not all changes or decision we made before doesn't mean they were the right ones.
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      11-04-2019, 10:11 PM   #48
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My point was that we are getting away from the fundamental rights based on Greek and judeo Christian thought. If we discard how we got these rights we will go the path of Europe and fail miserably. You cant throw away how we got here and expect things not to crumble.
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      11-05-2019, 02:47 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I think we are already experiencing that.


The whole MAGA movement is interesting. The country has never been perfect, it's a constant struggle toward an ideal that evolves over time. Women's sufferage, abolitionism, anti-segregation, these are corrections to things we got wrong and move forward from. MAGA is a political platform based on the idea that America isn't great anymore and that we need to go back to make it great again. This is an idea based on going backwards, a regression. What was so great about the past except that women were expected to shut up and minorities were discriminated against. Is that how far back we are supposed to go? Maybe it's the excess of the 80's that created more of a gap between the classes and led to a huge crushing recession? What was so great about that? Maybe it's the 70's? 60's? When does MAGA want to step back to? Where does conservatism want to go back to?

A dying ideology isn't the wrong ideology. Maybe it's the root that was cut and the tree now sways in the wind. It's quite possible that the progress in progressivness isn't completely without its merits.
I disagree wirh this assessment of the maga movement, it mainly correcting mistakes we have made.

We made deals with nations to their benefit in return for influence to counter the soviet block, those treaty became obsolete when the soviet union fell and never adjusted

Abortion is another wrong that needs to be fix

Uncontrolled immigration is another problem that we didn't have prior that needs to be address

China is a major mistake that we need to address

And on and on. Not all changes or decision we made before doesn't mean they were the right ones.
If only MAGA weren't being used as a platform for less noble things as well, because some of those things you mentioned I can get behind. The reality is it's more than that and it's been adopted by those with a different agenda, purposefully by this administration or not. God forbid Trump lose their support as well. After all, there are more stupid people in this country than not.
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      11-05-2019, 02:49 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
My point was that we are getting away from the fundamental rights based on Greek and judeo Christian thought. If we discard how we got these rights we will go the path of Europe and fail miserably. You cant throw away how we got here and expect things not to crumble.
This is honestly an interesting discussion, which fundamental rights are you referring to?
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