Small, Black, Strong - Interview with Albert Biermann on the 1M Coupé

[The1]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I disagree. The cheaper/younger the crowd, the more of that same "I'll hate on anyone who disagrees with me because I'm too insecure to interact with equals" nonsense. I'm not talking about fanboys on their own forum disliking interlopers.

It's clearly related to the maturity and sophistication of the crowd. Neither of those will improve with cheaper cars.

so you haven't been on 911 forums then? I'm sorry, i've seen it first hand. There are just less members on these forums as there are less of these car, so the problem seems non existent. But it's there. It's the forums, and people speaking their minds. Not everyone agrees with them, it's just up to the next person to respond respectfully.

and comments pointing out peoples maturity and sophistication (like you just did) is what gets peoples panties in a twist.

and i'm sure you're going to reply to this, so i'm going to lead by example, and do what a lot of people should be doing, and just not get sucked in. (as it seems i already have, but realize, so i'm walking away.)

[Kurt_OH]

I like 6speedonline best; haven't seen it much there. Its usualmly the M3 guys who go there getting the smackdown.

Any more on this conversation pm me. Otherwise you already had the last word.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by Da _Grk_Tuner

i have been driving manual ever since i got my 1st car.
i like all my cars manual. BMW has not gotten to me (lol)
driving a sport car with a manual transmition is more fun for me


just my opinion

I never doubted that. I was simply saying that, in my opinion, BMW's decision to leave out DCT wasn't to "return to its roots" or "please the enthusiasts" but purely marketing. Of course they wont explicitly say that but it seems logical from a business standpoint that they would need to maintain a reason for customers to purchase a 335is or M3. We have to keep in mind they're a business, and as a business making money is done through careful product planning, not pleasing the enthusiasts. With that said, that doesn't mean they dont want to make a product enthusiasts will enjoy, but I doubt this was genuinely the number 1 priority or else they would have ripped out the back seat and A/C to make it a track car like Porsche does with some of their vehicles.

That's just my opinion though. I couldn't care any less about who's comfortable driving M/T or not...

And yes what i just said is on topic according to this paragraph:

Originally Posted by southlight

M-Power.com: What will the customers be getting for their money?
Biermann: The BMW 1 Series M Coupé is driven by a 3.0 litre inline six cylinder bi turbo engine delivering about 340 hp. This power is transferred exclusively via a six speed manual gearbox. A closer look at the prototypes will reveal many similarities to the chassis, brakes, and rear differential of the BMW M3.

[Kurt_OH]

So do folks see the engine as EXACTLY the same internally and turbos and tune as Z4, but maybe better airflow to keep it cooler?

Not that 1/4 mile will be its specialty, but I think this car has a shot at sub 13 second times.

[cpippolo]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

So do folks see the engine as EXACTLY the same internally and turbos and tune as Z4, but maybe better airflow to keep it cooler?

Not that 1/4 mile will be its specialty, but I think this car has a shot at sub 13 second times.

Good question. SCOTT26 recently said "The best way to describe the engine of the 1M is a "Hybrid" but in the original form of Hybrid, nothing to do with "alternatives", but it is not a straightforward transplant." That leads me to think its not identicial to the Z4is engine. One or more of the articles suggested bigger turbos, but I'm not sure if that would be apparent in the engine picture since so much is covered. I'm hoping for the bigger turbos because might give it more power at higher rpms?

[Jblack4083]

Going on the hybrid topic I think we could speculate by seeing what S-engines there are and maybe figuring they've ported some components from that to this engine?

It could come down to better cooling like the X6M and X5M engines have, or maybe bigger turbos, possibly something from the S65 (unlikely).

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I disagree. The cheaper/younger the crowd, the more of that same "I'll hate on anyone who disagrees with me because I'm too insecure to interact with equals" nonsense. I'm not talking about fanboys on their own forum disliking interlopers.

It's clearly related to the maturity and sophistication of the crowd. Neither of those will improve with cheaper cars.

IN theory you'd expect to be right. The maturity level of the people trying to 1 up each other (and I suspect education level) over transmission is obviously a lot lower than you would expect of an adult who should be buying BMWs.

However, I've seen the same squabbling and insecurity rife on all car forums with owners of serious performance cars which really are populated with the 40 to 50 crowd.

I think no matter the age, a certain type of person, of any age, will use the anonymity of the internet to play out their insecurity and lack of character.

On the other hand, you can meet some balanced and cultured people on forums too and the speed of information relayed is amazing. You take the good with the bad.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

Going on the hybrid topic I think we could speculate by seeing what S-engines there are and maybe figuring they've ported some components from that to this engine?

It could come down to better cooling like the X6M and X5M engines have, or maybe bigger turbos, possibly something from the S65 (unlikely).

If the engine they're admittedly using as a base already makes 335hp in other cars, I don't see how they could do much to it (such as bigger turbos, cams, intake) that would only make a 5hp difference. UNLESS, they perhaps make the 369 lb/ft of torque available for longer or over a more broad rpm range, and then hold the 340hp from say 5k - 7k by controlling boost. That could make the car WAY faster, while constraining the peak number to 340hp. That'd be sweet!

They could probably accomplish that with only a fancy tune, and it would explain why they ALLEGEDLY can't manage to get the N54 and DCT software "synced up" when they ALREADY have it in multiple cars/configurations that work with the existing higher output N54 variants.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by niuniu

IN theory you'd expect to be right. The maturity level of the people trying to 1 up each other (and I suspect education level) over transmission is obviously a lot lower than you would expect of an adult who should be buying BMWs.

However, I've seen the same squabbling and insecurity rife on all car forums with owners of serious performance cars which really are populated with the 40 to 50 crowd.

I think no matter the age, a certain type of person, of any age, will use the anonymity of the internet to play out their insecurity and lack of character.

On the other hand, you can meet some balanced and cultured people on forums too and the speed of information relayed is amazing. You take the good with the bad.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by dtc100

Who cares what's been written? Do you seriously believe BMW will admit to this?

But if you can come out of the shell of the BMW fanatics, think about someone who is in the market for a loaded muscle car, his budget only allows him to look for the new Mustang, or the new Camero, or the new Charger...or one of those Japanese...now he learns there is a similarly priced (ok maybe not so similar but still way batter than a loaded M3) BMW coupe, big enough in size too, he may decide to give his local BMW dealer a visit...

But if the only goal of this new M1 coupe is to cater to a segment of the BMW clients, I say it will actually piss off some, because this new M1 coupe will be bigger than the 335is coupe (at least wider for sure), more powerful and much faster than the 335is coupe, and possibly cost less than the 335is too.

And do you think BMW cares what you think? They are a global brand, catering not just to the US market. If you come out of your narrow-vision shell, think about the wider market. And what exactly is wrong if it is a more powerful then a 335is coupe? This is a M car. It's suppose to perform better then the regular series, is, included. If you don't know that, you are pretty new to bimmers.

Bottom line, BMW is making a 1M car to cater to people in different markets who want an entry-level M car, not specifically against US made only cars.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

If the engine they're admittedly using as a base already makes 335hp in other cars, I don't see how they could do much to it (such as bigger turbos, cams, intake) that would only make a 5hp difference. UNLESS, they perhaps make the 369 lb/ft of torque available for longer or over a more broad rpm range, and then hold the 340hp from say 5k - 7k by controlling boost. That could make the car WAY faster, while constraining the peak number to 340hp. That'd be sweet!

They could probably accomplish that with only a fancy tune, and it would explain why they ALLEGEDLY can't manage to get the N54 and DCT software "synced up" when they ALREADY have it in multiple cars/configurations that work with the existing higher output N54 variants.

I wouldn't be disappointed to see a constant 369 lb/ft of torque available without the "overboost" feature. That would definitely set this car apart and make it more "///M Worthy" (yeah yeah i know its not NA).

That is a logical explanation for the lack of DCT

[Cornhusker]

I disagree with everyone. JMHO.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

I never doubted that. I was simply saying that, in my opinion, BMW's decision to leave out DCT wasn't to "return to its roots" or "please the enthusiasts" but purely marketing. Of course they wont explicitly say that but it seems logical from a business standpoint that they would need to maintain a reason for customers to purchase a 335is or M3. We have to keep in mind they're a business, and as a business making money is done through careful product planning, not pleasing the enthusiasts. With that said, that doesn't mean they dont want to make a product enthusiasts will enjoy, but I doubt this was genuinely the number 1 priority or else they would have ripped out the back seat and A/C to make it a track car like Porsche does with some of their vehicles.

That's just my opinion though. I couldn't care any less about who's comfortable driving M/T or not...

And yes what i just said is on topic according to this paragraph:

This very limited in production numbers 1M would never have dented let alone killed M3 sales. I don't buy that argument at all.

If anything, BMW would probably LOVE it if some potential M3 buyers would buy a 1M. Why? Because M3 sales have been lackluster for the new model.

No one knows why exactly BMW isn't offering a DCT in this 1M.
BMW says they ran out of time to get it right.
That seems odd to many of us because given the modest power numbers, they are not that far off from the 335is, which does have the DCT.
And, I'm sure there are 335is owners who have already bumped up their power and their DCT's are holding up. So, BMW not liking the DCT in the 1M or not having time to get it right, seems very odd.
It's got to have some truth though, cause from a business standpoint they aren't going to lose a sale if they could get the DCT in there.

I'm guessing, but it might just be cause this is a limited number production and they just made a choice not to invest in any more research or engineering time, and dollars.

It'll make the next, real 1M even more exciting, with all the colors, options, and production numbers.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

I wouldn't be disappointed to see a constant 369 lb/ft of torque available without the "overboost" feature. That would definitely set this car apart and make it more "///M Worthy" (yeah yeah i know its not NA).

That is a logical explanation for the lack of DCT

But it isn't, cause the Z4 also has the same over boost torque and runs the DCT. The 335is has less HP than the 1M and Z4, but also has the same over boost torque numbers, and it too has the DCT option and manual, which the Z4 doesn't.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by formula M

It isn't...? ^^


Bro, how do you know? Have you even bothered to look at what BMW is hinting at... look at the car! (?) Look at it's massive cross section up front. You don't think the M team didn't utilize all those purposeful holes in the fascia..?

Can we apply a little common sense here? It would suggest, along with everything else, that this engine is still "different" than any version of the N54... This car is meant to be banged around tracks & flaug'd to death, tossable & nimble/adroit. (ie: ..an //M version, of a germen derived boy racer.) So far, the 1M has //M where it counts.

I like skunkwork special brews.... if u don't believe me, then you've never driven an E30 M3... *






*Their formula is what counts, not an arbitrary max. (ie: secret M sauce)

So you're the only one with common sense huh?

Hey BRO, the Z4 has the same over boost torque as what is being stated by the reviewers. That is where I'm getting the numbers.
If you don't like it, then take it up with the multitude of pro reviewers who are stating all these numbers.
I'm using what we all have. NO, I DON'T know the actual numbers like the rest of us don't either. All we have is what we've been given.

So, as is being reported, no it isn't different in terms of stated power output.
Yes, I have looked, and that front could indicate a better IC. Still, that doesn't mean the 1M will or will not produce more power. It could simply mean that it will suffer less heat soak, and that is a good thing, such that it can continue to produce that same power over a longer hotter run.
Yes, that's a good thing.

It's "German", btw.

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by niuniu

IN theory you'd expect to be right. The maturity level of the people trying to 1 up each other (and I suspect education level) over transmission is obviously a lot lower than you would expect of an adult who should be buying BMWs.

However, I've seen the same squabbling and insecurity rife on all car forums with owners of serious performance cars which really are populated with the 40 to 50 crowd.

I think no matter the age, a certain type of person, of any age, will use the anonymity of the internet to play out their insecurity and lack of character.

On the other hand, you can meet some balanced and cultured people on forums too and the speed of information relayed is amazing. You take the good with the bad.

I have to agree with you again. It's nothing about the money or age for that matter. It's all to do with upbringing and basic decency, and respect for others, which age and experience SHOULD cultivate but money surely cannot buy. And there is so much good here that there's no point in getting bogged down in the mire of ignorance. That's why I continue to visit everyday for my 'fix'.

[MDORPHN]

FWIW, I'm far less concerned about the peak hp and torque figures, than I am about BMW having resolved the oil and coolant temps issues that have regularly put this motor into limp home mode on the track.

Neil

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

FWIW, I'm far less concerned about the peak hp and torque figures, than I am about BMW having resolved the oil and coolant temps issues that have regularly put this motor into limp home mode on the track.

Neil