DIY: manual transmission and diff fluid change

[TheRuss]

To add credence to this, I recently changed the diff oil on my Quaife, probably around a year or less after it was fitted. There was loads of metal in the form of a metallic paste on my magnetic drain plug. The distributor said not to bother changing it so soon, but I'm glad I did, and glad I had the magnetic plug, too. Otherwise all that crap would've been washing over the diff. Changed it again about a month later (this last Sunday) and there was barely anything on the plug, confirming that there is a decent amount of wear metals produced during break-in.

[DSSG]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

I'd disagree. From used oil analysis it has been shown that the N54 dirties the engine oil much quicker than the 20k interval. (Mainly from fuel dilution.) I'd definitely not wish to leave my engine oil that long.

As for Trans fluid, regardless of standard intervals a fresh fluid is always better than a dirty one. It's up to the individual to weigh up a cost vs benefit basis on how often they want to change it. It's impossible to know if it's worth it, but I feel better with fresh fluids in my car.

Same goes for the engine oil. The car may not break down if I leave it to 20k intervals, but there would likely be more wear.

Who said anything about a 20K interval? I would certainly believe that oil in the pan for 20K would have more contamination than one in for 10K, but what is the point? BMW says once a year or 10K whichever comes first also the same schedule as MB and nearly all of the industry.

I have yet to hear of any engine failing due to following the mfg recommended schedule. Most of the stuff mentioned in this thread regarding intervals is pure nonsense not supported by any auto maker or scientific evidence. In fact, studies support the idea of extended oil changes.

Urban legends, old wives tales, the grizzled geezer, oil forums, or whoever has been spreading this rubbish around for years. All of these oil changes are at best described as anal and a waste of precious resources.

[Dackelone]

^^Well... some of us also wash(and wax) our car's more than other people do. I suppose that is also wasting our natural resources.

[TheRuss]

Here in the UK the service schedule is 2 years or every 20k miles. We have the same engines and same oils as you guys...

Show me a link to the study that shows less or equal wear from extended OCIs and I'll believe you. Common sense says cleaner oil works better.

[JimD]

I like to look at the "Bob is the Oil guy" for information on lubrication. There is a section of the forum where people report oil test results. I checked it briefly right before typing this reply. I don't see anything that would say 20K miles is OK. 10-15K miles if the duty is low and the oil is really good seems to be the highest. If you push the car harder, the interval before the additives are gone decreases. Once the additives are depleted the ability of the oil to suspend the "dirt" in it goes away (so sludge develops) and the ability to vary thickness with temperature may go away (possibly decreasing lubrication).

Running oil twice as long as you won't cause instant failure at least in most cases. It will increase wear, however, leading to an early rebuild. If you are leasing or plan to trade the vehicle in a few years, you may not care. I plan to have my bimmer awhile so I will waste some oil and change it plenty often. I change at 5K miles. I also drive a SUV so it takes me more than 6 months to accumulate 5K miles. I will admit this is overkill, I could probably safely change annually, around 7500 miles, but I'd rather waste oil than waste my bimmer's engine.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Here in the UK the service schedule is 2 years or every 20k miles. We have the same engines and same oils as you guys...

Show me a link to the study that shows less or equal wear from extended OCIs and I'll believe you. Common sense says cleaner oil works better.

^^+1. It's the same over here in Germany where you pay for service. My BMW Zentrum told me the same thing. For a lease car or average person, BMW says once every 24 months or 22K kms I think. My SA said he would suggest to change the oil at least once per year. Preferably twice per year. You have to realized a simple oil change runs upwards of 300 to 400 euros(at the dealer) over here.

With engine oil cheap in the states and the very hot temps you see there in the summertime, I would change my oil often. The more often the better.

[TheRuss]

Yeah, I do mine twice a year. For this engine that seems best. I think BMW just tell you to do whatever suits them best. If they had loads of dealers with not enough service work then I'm sure the OCIs would suddenly become more frequent. As it is, the dealers seem to be really busy, so they get you to service the car half as often and just charge you three times as much. Why should they care - as long as your car makes it out of warranty without breaking down then they don't care.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by Happy Jose

Who said anything about a 20K interval? I would certainly believe that oil in the pan for 20K would have more contamination than one in for 10K, but what is the point? BMW says once a year or 10K whichever comes first also the same schedule as MB and nearly all of the industry.

I have yet to hear of any engine failing due to following the mfg recommended schedule. Most of the stuff mentioned in this thread regarding intervals is pure nonsense not supported by any auto maker or scientific evidence. In fact, studies support the idea of extended oil changes.

Urban legends, old wives tales, the grizzled geezer, oil forums, or whoever has been spreading this rubbish around for years. All of these oil changes are at best described as anal and a waste of precious resources.

And what scientific evidence have you presented to support your position?

So far all I see is heresay.

[TheRuss]

Exactly. Doesn't need a scientific study to work out that clean oil results in less wear than oil with metal particles in it though.

I agree that my car is unlikely to break down due to extended drain intervals, at least in the time that I'll own it for, but that's not really the point here. If you want to maintain your car just enough to keep it from breaking down, then you're probably on the wrong forum.

Another example is spark plugs. They don't technically need replacing until the car starts misfiring - the car will still run if they're old. However, I won't be leaving mine in that long and replacing them individually as they fail.

[inline sex]

I will be refilling my diff an trans fluids soon and would like to hear updates on people that have been running ATF for a while now.
Also what was the conclusion on D4 vs D6?
Redline website recommends D6 for my car yet ecstuning says D4.
I'd say redline knows better but D6 is also harder to come by it seems

[TheRuss]

I went for the MTL, personally. The auto transfer fluids don't really have the best lubrication properties for a manual transmission, IMO.

I used Fuchs Titan diff fluid, as recommended by Quaife for my diff. It would work equally as well for the OEM open diff.

[inline sex]

thanks russ
from what ive read bmw's fluid viscosity is closer to D4 and considering the climate here in Seattle and my short commutes I think ATF will suit me better. maybe?
Per RL's website D6 is even lower viscosity but 'most shear-stable' and 'Also satisfies API 70W/75W/80W and GL-4 gear oil requirements'
hmmm very convincing!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by inline sex

I will be refilling my diff an trans fluids soon and would like to hear updates on people that have been running ATF for a while now.
Also what was the conclusion on D4 vs D6?
Redline website recommends D6 for my car yet ecstuning says D4.
I'd say redline knows better but D6 is also harder to come by it seems

I think D4 is the way to go for you. I've been running D4 in my manual trans now for three years and almost 70K kms. No issues.

[TheRuss]

Originally Posted by inline sex

thanks russ
from what ive read bmw's fluid viscosity is closer to D4 and considering the climate here in Seattle and my short commutes I think ATF will suit me better. maybe?
Per RL's website D6 is even lower viscosity but 'most shear-stable' and 'Also satisfies API 70W/75W/80W and GL-4 gear oil requirements'
hmmm very convincing!

Sure, it's a closer viscosity, but the reason BMW use a thin fluid is to satisfy emissions requirements and improve mpg a fraction, not to protect the gears.

My transmission feels much better with MTL than the thinner fluid that was already in it and the thin Pentosin MTF that I ran for a year. I'm in the chilly UK as well. In all fairness, I'm sure any of the three fluids would be fine though.

[inline sex]

Well looks like Im going with redline atf [d4 most likely] thank you russ and dackel!!
I just drove to 4 different auto parts stores and none had any red line products. lame!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by inline sex

Well looks like Im going with redline atf [d4 most likely] thank you russ and dackel!!
I just drove to 4 different auto parts stores and none had any red line products. lame!

I've never seen RedLine oil sold in stores. I always have bought it direct(from Cali) or from one of their local distributors via UPS.

Please let us know what you feel/think once you change your old oil. Good or Bad.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by inline sex

Well looks like Im going with redline atf [d4 most likely] thank you russ and dackel!!
I just drove to 4 different auto parts stores and none had any red line products. lame!

I think O'Reilly's might carry it, though that could vary by region.

[inline sex]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

I think O'Reilly's might carry it, though that could vary by region.

I checked there but nothing.
I came from a small town and the local parts store there stocked it so I'm surprised napa, orreileys, pep boys, autozone don't.
FCP Euro seems to have good prices and free shipping on orders over $50 tho

[JimD]

I bought Red Line at JEGS.

[OLEK135i]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Hi Guys,

Well… I finally got around to changing my manual transmission and differential fluids. I really do not know why it took me so long to do this. Technically IF you can handle changing your engine’s oil you can do this job.

I purchased the transmission fluid (MTF-LT-4) from my local BMW dealership. Normally this is sold in five liter jugs but they had some in a barrel – so they sold it to me by the liter. The manual trans takes 2.0L so I bought 2.5L just to be safe. The last thing I wanted was to run back to the dealer with my car left up in the air. I can confirm the manual transmission takes 2.0 liters of fluid.

For the rear diff, I used Castrol “SAE 75W140 GL5 BMW LS”. This fluid is backwards compatible with non-LSD differential. It is also the same fluid BMW says to use for M models. The differential took 1.2L to fill.

You simply fill the trans and diff until fluid starts to spill out (as long as your car is jacked up completely LEVEL!).

The whole process is very simple. The only special tools you need are: a 8mm allen (hex) key for the transmission. The fill hole is a tight fit… my ½” 8mm socket could not get up in there… so I used a L-shaped allen wrench. That worked just fine. For the rear diff you need a 14mm hex socket. Btw… there are no copper crush o-rings… you just re-use the old drain plugs. They have one of those green neoprene o-rings built into the drain/fill plugs.

NOTE: before you open the transmission fluid drain (on the bottom of the trans, you first need to remove one of the under body aero covers) I would first remove the transmission’s fill plug. It is located on the upper right (Passenger side) of the trans. Then once you have the fill plug removed remove the trans drain. Be forewarned that the trans gear oil will come out quite quickly! Ask me how I know this… because a got a slight shower of trans oil all over me! lol

You will need some device to suck out the old differential fluid. I used a fluid evacuator – that I bought from Griots Garage. I attached a 2M long 8mm green hose onto the end of the suction tube. Worked like a charm. I also think Motive Products makes a nice fluid evacuator/pump as well. These suction pumps cost less then $100.

It is pretty easy to do. I really do not know why I waited so long. I do know that my trans oil was filthy! Very dark black. The diff oil looked dark but really did not have that stinky diff oil smell to it – that I was kind of half expecting it to have. The new fluids were very clean and clear going in (as you can see in one of my photos). I am sure in no time they will change to a darker color. I am thinking of changing these oils again say in 20K. Just to be OCD and over kill safe.


Dackel


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A friend of mine asked me how I filled the transmission with fresh oil. I used an automotive syringe-like device, made by Pressol. It can suck or push oil/fluids. It holds roughly 500ml of fluid - and it works quite well. It can be found at most German hardware stores. I bought mine at Hornbach for 22 euros. For anyone stationed in Germany you can input your city's German zip code here to find a Hornbach near you...

http://www.hornbach.de/cms/de/de/mei...t/maerkte.html



You can ask for an, Öl-Absaugpumpe



Pressol Saug- und Druckspritze (suction and pressure syringe) Amazon.de has them one sale right now.

http://www.amazon.de/Carpoint-065624...830116&sr=8-46

Attachment 768623

To remove the old diff fluid I used a oil change vacuum pump. Most MWR car craft shops should have an industrial tool that can suck old oil from the car's dipstick tube. Just use one with some 8mm vacuum hose attached to the end. Then insert it inside the diff's fill hole and suck out the old diff oil.

Hornbach also sells a fluid vacuum pump(made to suck out fuel, but it should also work for diff oil. Just make sure the oil is warm/hot). The suction tool is made by Einhell ( Benzin-Ölabsaugpumpe)

Attachment 768627

http://www.amazon.de/Einhell-Benzin-...31867&sr=1-159

Hope this helps future guys to change their fluids!

Dack

Can you use this tool to take out and put the fluids in:
http://www.bavauto.com/lview.asp?img...7077_IMG01.jpg



Use this high quality fluid transfer pump to remove old fluid from power steering reservoirs, brake fluid reservoirs or differentials that do not have drain plugs (as on many later model BMWs), or to fill transmissions, differentials and any other assemblies when changing the fluids. For draining differentials we recommed using the Bavarian Autosport adapter part # B3300000.
Part Number Description Price Qty.
CTA7077
Fluid Transfer Pump - 1-1/2 liters - CTA Tools

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by OLEK135i

Can you use this tool to take out and put the fluids in:
http://www.bavauto.com/lview.asp?img...7077_IMG01.jpg
Attachment 1123265


Use this high quality fluid transfer pump to remove old fluid from power steering reservoirs, brake fluid reservoirs or differentials that do not have drain plugs (as on many later model BMWs), or to fill transmissions, differentials and any other assemblies when changing the fluids. For draining differentials we recommed using the Bavarian Autosport adapter part # B3300000.
Part Number Description Price Qty.
CTA7077
Fluid Transfer Pump - 1-1/2 liters - CTA Tools

Yes, you CAN use a fluid transfer pump to remove your old fluid(s). IF you use one for old oil or gear oil... I would not use that same fluid extractor for your old brake fluid. For brake fluid I use a brand new "Turkey Baster" to keep my brake fluid clean and dirt/grease free. You don't want to get old oil or dirt into your ABS block/brake master cylinder.

Dackel

[Ashock]

So I've run D4-ATF in my 6MT 128i for about two years now. I think I've put about 20K KM's so far with the D4. I loved the feel of the D4 after initial change and it's been giving me consistently smooth shifts. I used to have a problem getting into first gear with the original fluid that BMW put in the car. Ever since moving to the D4-ATF, I never had that problem come back.

Now, after a couple years of running this fluid, it seems my 1st to 2nd shifts are getting tougher and requires a bit of strength to go into gear. I'm feeling slight degradation in shift quality between 2nd and 3rd as well.

Is it too soon to change out the transmission fluid again? Or should I do it since it seems the fluid has degraded.