All Seasons instead of winter tires?

TCS26 · 11-17-2010, 12:20 AM

My 2011 135i should be arriving in early December and was curious if anyone that lives in areas that typically receive very little snow go this route? Living in the Dallas area, snow is rare, but it certainly gets below the 40/45 F threshold for summers.
I am considering getting a square set of 225/40/18s to use for winter on my 261 rims and then purchasing new non RFTs and wheels in the Spring. Thoughts? Appreciate any suggestions.

BrokenVert · 11-17-2010, 12:22 AM

IMO all seasons are no seasons.

They are compromised in the summer and the winter for a sports car. Winters will last you 2-3 seasons if you dont beat them up too much as will summers.

Cisitalia · 11-17-2010, 08:31 AM

I think that is a good plan. I lived in the DFW area before and I don’t think dedicated snow tires are needed there at all. You can easily get by with all seasons. I now live in Charlotte, NC and we get more snow and ice then DFW. I could not survive with my DD on summer performance tires. I could not get out of my drive way when it snowed. I dumped the stock RFT with 1500 miles and put on Conti DWS and they will allow me to survive fine with the minimal snow/ice we get here occasionally.

Will snow tires be better? Sure, but they would only be needed for a couple days and too much of a compromise the rest of the time. The Conti DWS all seasons are acceptable in light snow and when the weather is nicer they handle better than snow tires. I put 225/255 on my stock 261M wheels. I would not go with a square 225 on the stock staggered rims. Over the winter time I got CS7s and Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics and I have been very happy with this setup for non-winter months. I sold the POS runcraps.

I have lived in the snow belts of Syracuse like BrokenVert has and in MI and New England and I always went with dedicated snows. I loved the Dunlop Winter Sports M2/M3s. But you will be fine in DFW with descent all seasons. That’s my experience. Good luck.

ptack · 11-17-2010, 09:51 AM

It might work for you on most occasions, but they will suck if you do get snow. If you can avoid driving on those rare days, you'll be fine - so long as you still put good tires on for summer.

ND40oz · 11-17-2010, 10:02 AM

I'd think you'll be fine with all season during the non-summer months. It's not like you get much snow in Dallas, but the biggest thing is you need a tire with a rubber compound that performs in a wide range of temps, which is what the all season will give you. Just because it's in the 30s one day, doesn't mean it won't be in the 60s or 70s later on in the week and that's when you wouldn't want to be stuck on winters. Had the same issues in CO except we'd get a foot of snow one day and the next day it would be in the 50s or 60s.

Red Bread · 11-17-2010, 11:51 AM

Agreed, don't compromise 363 days just so you can get through 3 days of snow. I work from home when the weather sucks, but even if you can't just rent a car if the weather turns south.

One note, PS2's and most true summer tires get a little squirrely when the ground temps get really cold, or even when the air temps are under freezing. I drive to Santa Fe a few times a year, and even without snow, you certainly see a lot more of the stability control. I have driven with PS2's in the snow, and it's not ideal, but also not really that hard. Just leave tons of space in front of you and don't expect quick starts, and you'll be fine.

TCS26 · 11-17-2010, 12:12 PM

Thanks for all the responses guys! In almost all cases, if it is snowing, I won't be driving around. My concern is more to do with driving early in the morning or night when its 30 F outside. Snow tires seem overkill. I wasn't sure about being able to run 255/35s on the rears on stock 261m rims, so that's nice to know.

RPM90 · 11-17-2010, 09:16 PM

Despite some assertions that all season tires will result in accidents, I can personally tell you from experience that all seasons work just fine in snow, when you need to be driving carefully anyway even with snow tires.

Are they the best in summer compared to summer only tires? No.
Are they better in the summer than the summer RFT's? Yes.

Yes, all seasons have to be some type of compromise in order to allow a car to be driven in any weather. That is in fact what they are made for, and they are best choice in that type of duty.

In an all season area like Chicago, most cars run all seasons, and we're not sliding off into ditches in any large numbers. The people who end up in ditches in real winter conditions are those that don't respect the road conditions when they suck.

All seasons are a compromise if one absolutely needs every bit of traction they can get every day. But, summer tires and snow tires are also a compromise. Snow tires are a big compromise in my view. Why? Cause they work best IN SNOW. If your area has snow on the roads that often, then yes, snow tires are the ticket. If not, then they are compromising ride, handling, quietness, and MPG when they are running on dry clear roads, which happens to be the majority condition even in the Chicago area.

Plus, another dangerous condition with switching tires is, when do you switch them?
In late fall and early winter if you have to switch to snow tires before the cold and snow potential hit. If you wait too long then your stuck with summer tires, which is dangerous.
Going early only wears the tires and gas quicker.
However, in late winter early spring, if you change to summer tires too soon, then you run the dangerous condition of cold snaps and spring snow storms.

BTW, not all all seasons have the same all season performance, just like not all summer or winter tires have the same performance for their niche. Do your research on which all seasons work well. I have Conti DWS. I drove just fine last winter in every snow event, and no accidents, never got stuck, and enjoyed the superior characteristics of all seasons compared to snow tires for the conditions we had.
I think all seasons will work just fine in Dallas.

Just like others have their opinion on tires, I too am sharing mine.
I don't claim that my view is the right view. It is right for me.
Also, I do not disparage others views on the subject as they make decisions based on their experience and view.
I offer my comments and experience so that you can use them, if you want, to make your decision.

scott135i · 11-18-2010, 10:38 PM

I had 2 Manual Trans/RWD Cadillac CTS's with All Season's (shitty stock tires) and did just fine over the course of 4 winters in the NYC area. Smart driving is equally important.

bluebimmer135 · 12-05-2010, 02:16 AM

Yes, snow/ice tires like X-ice 2 and WS60 would definitely not be necessary and also give you less traction on dry roads, but i would try performance winter tires like Michelin Alpin Pilot PA3, which has optimal traction and better traction than all seasons below 45 plus much better traction in light snows.

IGoFast1589 · 12-05-2010, 10:36 AM

Purpose built snow tires are the only way to go if you would like to get around in the snow. No all season will ever be able to match a full snow tire. It's like if you had two olympic runners, but one was wearing ski boots and the other was wearing running shoes. Who do you think will be able to run faster? They're both as capable, but the clearly the runner wearing running shoes will be able to run faster. I would only use all seasons if I was looking to achieve good rain and or cold temperature performance and the car wasn't going to see snow usage or very very little snow.

miiipilot · 12-06-2010, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPM90

In an all season area like Chicago, most cars run all seasons, and we're not sliding off into ditches in any large numbers. The people who end up in ditches in real winter conditions are those that don't respect the road conditions when they suck.

I think all seasons will work just fine in Dallas.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I see more 4x4s and the Mommies in their Lexus SUVs in the ditch.

miiipilot

MikeinAlexandria · 12-06-2010, 10:18 AM

I have yet to find really good all-season tires. They don't have that much traction in snow and not enough grip on dry pavement on hot summer days. That said, I have mainly used Goodyear, Pirelli and Yokohama all-season tires on lower powered BMWs. (E30-E36...). Michelin makes a sports version of their all-season tire which might fill the bill for Texas. As others are saying, the best in real snow are real snow tires. But, they will wear very quickly once temps go above 40 degrees.

Red Bread · 12-06-2010, 10:57 AM

Just to eat a little crow here, I had Michelin Pilot A/S's installed on my wife's 135i. Both of our folks live in snow infested areas, and we really needed at least one car that could handle a little snow and ice. Plus there's some comfort in knowing that her car won't be as big of a handful as mine with PS2's in the snow.

We made a trip to Santa Fe over Thanksgiving, which had a little snow on the ground, just enough to try them out. They're certainly not great in the snow, but leagues better than PS2's or the stock RE050a's. I'd originally ordered the better rated Conti DWS tires, but the rears were backordered at Discount, so I went with the Michelins. My wife's pleased with the ride improvement over the runflats, and handling wise, I'd say it's about the same as stock, without the tendency to get really unsettled if there's a mid-turn bump.

Overall, after making fun of A/S tires for Dallas, I realized that not all of our driving is done locally, and that my wife has a lower tolerance of stupid ideas than I have, so the all seasons have been a successful compromise so far. Not as grippy as PS2's, but then my wife doesn't drive her car like I drive mine, and it also won't see track days like mine does.

Tom K. · 12-06-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeinAlexandria

I have yet to find really good all-season tires. They don't have that much traction in snow and not enough grip on dry pavement on hot summer days. That said, I have mainly used Goodyear, Pirelli and Yokohama all-season tires on lower powered BMWs. (E30-E36...). Michelin makes a sports version of their all-season tire which might fill the bill for Texas. As others are saying, the best in real snow are real snow tires. But, they will wear very quickly once temps go above 40 degrees.

I've had Conti Extreme DWS tires on my ZSP 128i for 9,000 miles and so far, so good. While the cornering feel is a bit soft, grip is pretty much the same as the OEM Goodyear NCT summer tires - and the ride and wear are much, much better. We'll see how they do in light snow.

Tom

Red Bread · 12-06-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom K.

I've had Conti Extreme DWS tires on my ZSP 128i for 9,000 miles and so far, so good. While the cornering feel is a bit soft, grip is pretty much the same as the OEM Goodyear NCT summer tires - and the ride and wear are much, much better. We'll see how they do in light snow.

Tom

From what I've read, the DWS should be pretty good in the snow, better than my Michelin A/S Pilots, which weren't bad at all. Let us know.

Nifty · 12-06-2010, 01:55 PM

I've had my Conti DWS for about 16,000 miles now and they are now entering their second Central illinois winter. They preformed great last year, and I've yet to get stuck even in snow at the bumper on an uphill grade. No one, including myself would question a dedicated snow tires superiority, but for the amount of snow we get the conti's strike a great balance.

A note about tire wear:
The tires have a D,W and S engraved into the tread, the idea being that as each letter wears away, you shoud no longer drive in those conditions. That said, after 16,000 miles my tires show the follwing:

Fronts: Look brand new, the 'S' marking on the tires is still deep. They will have no problem making through the 45,000 miles of my lease.

Rears: The 'S' is BARELY there. Even, so I've already driven on them a few times this winter in some bad conditions and I am not worried about their ability. I'm not sure yet if they will make it through another winter. If I only needed them for dry/wet I don't think they would have any problem going 40,000 miles.

So, over 45,000 miles of pretty aggressive driving, I MIGHT need to replace the rears once. Not bad for a tire that stay on year round. Just my 2 cents.

11-17-2010, 12:20 AM	#1
TCS26 New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 2011 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: DFW iTrader: (0)	All Seasons instead of winter tires? My 2011 135i should be arriving in early December and was curious if anyone that lives in areas that typically receive very little snow go this route? Living in the Dallas area, snow is rare, but it certainly gets below the 40/45 F threshold for summers. I am considering getting a square set of 225/40/18s to use for winter on my 261 rims and then purchasing new non RFTs and wheels in the Spring. Thoughts? Appreciate any suggestions.
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11-17-2010, 12:22 AM	#2
BrokenVert Resident Kerbalnaut 477 Rep 10,703 Posts Drives: Topless Brute/Hybrid Boogaloo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fahrvergnügen/NY iTrader: (0)	IMO all seasons are no seasons. They are compromised in the summer and the winter for a sports car. Winters will last you 2-3 seasons if you dont beat them up too much as will summers. __________________
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11-17-2010, 08:31 AM	#3
Cisitalia No fast lane bandits allowed 6 Rep 338 Posts Drives: 2009 135i TiAg 6mt M-Sport Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (1)	I think that is a good plan. I lived in the DFW area before and I don’t think dedicated snow tires are needed there at all. You can easily get by with all seasons. I now live in Charlotte, NC and we get more snow and ice then DFW. I could not survive with my DD on summer performance tires. I could not get out of my drive way when it snowed. I dumped the stock RFT with 1500 miles and put on Conti DWS and they will allow me to survive fine with the minimal snow/ice we get here occasionally. Will snow tires be better? Sure, but they would only be needed for a couple days and too much of a compromise the rest of the time. The Conti DWS all seasons are acceptable in light snow and when the weather is nicer they handle better than snow tires. I put 225/255 on my stock 261M wheels. I would not go with a square 225 on the stock staggered rims. Over the winter time I got CS7s and Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics and I have been very happy with this setup for non-winter months. I sold the POS runcraps. I have lived in the snow belts of Syracuse like BrokenVert has and in MI and New England and I always went with dedicated snows. I loved the Dunlop Winter Sports M2/M3s. But you will be fine in DFW with descent all seasons. That’s my experience. Good luck. Last edited by Cisitalia; 11-17-2010 at 12:30 PM.. Reason: sp
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11-17-2010, 09:51 AM	#4
ptack Brigadier General 269 Rep 4,470 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 135i [6.50]	It might work for you on most occasions, but they will suck if you do get snow. If you can avoid driving on those rare days, you'll be fine - so long as you still put good tires on for summer. __________________ 135i, SGM, Coral, Sport Package, Auto, Premium Hifi, USB/ipod, Apex EC-7s, PPK Stage II
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11-17-2010, 10:02 AM	#5
ND40oz Major 406 Rep 1,348 Posts Drives: M2 CS Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Denver/Frankfurt iTrader: (0)	I'd think you'll be fine with all season during the non-summer months. It's not like you get much snow in Dallas, but the biggest thing is you need a tire with a rubber compound that performs in a wide range of temps, which is what the all season will give you. Just because it's in the 30s one day, doesn't mean it won't be in the 60s or 70s later on in the week and that's when you wouldn't want to be stuck on winters. Had the same issues in CO except we'd get a foot of snow one day and the next day it would be in the 50s or 60s. __________________ 21 BMW X5 xDrive40i 20 BMW M2 CS 19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT
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11-17-2010, 11:51 AM	#6
Red Bread Major General 4463 Rep 9,160 Posts Drives: Smog machines Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Agreed, don't compromise 363 days just so you can get through 3 days of snow. I work from home when the weather sucks, but even if you can't just rent a car if the weather turns south. One note, PS2's and most true summer tires get a little squirrely when the ground temps get really cold, or even when the air temps are under freezing. I drive to Santa Fe a few times a year, and even without snow, you certainly see a lot more of the stability control. I have driven with PS2's in the snow, and it's not ideal, but also not really that hard. Just leave tons of space in front of you and don't expect quick starts, and you'll be fine.
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11-17-2010, 12:12 PM	#7
TCS26 New Member 1 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 2011 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: DFW iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all the responses guys! In almost all cases, if it is snowing, I won't be driving around. My concern is more to do with driving early in the morning or night when its 30 F outside. Snow tires seem overkill. I wasn't sure about being able to run 255/35s on the rears on stock 261m rims, so that's nice to know.
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11-17-2010, 09:16 PM	#8
RPM90 Major General 890 Rep 7,047 Posts Drives: 340i M-sport AT Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1)	Despite some assertions that all season tires will result in accidents, I can personally tell you from experience that all seasons work just fine in snow, when you need to be driving carefully anyway even with snow tires. Are they the best in summer compared to summer only tires? No. Are they better in the summer than the summer RFT's? Yes. Yes, all seasons have to be some type of compromise in order to allow a car to be driven in any weather. That is in fact what they are made for, and they are best choice in that type of duty. In an all season area like Chicago, most cars run all seasons, and we're not sliding off into ditches in any large numbers. The people who end up in ditches in real winter conditions are those that don't respect the road conditions when they suck. All seasons are a compromise if one absolutely needs every bit of traction they can get every day. But, summer tires and snow tires are also a compromise. Snow tires are a big compromise in my view. Why? Cause they work best IN SNOW. If your area has snow on the roads that often, then yes, snow tires are the ticket. If not, then they are compromising ride, handling, quietness, and MPG when they are running on dry clear roads, which happens to be the majority condition even in the Chicago area. Plus, another dangerous condition with switching tires is, when do you switch them? In late fall and early winter if you have to switch to snow tires before the cold and snow potential hit. If you wait too long then your stuck with summer tires, which is dangerous. Going early only wears the tires and gas quicker. However, in late winter early spring, if you change to summer tires too soon, then you run the dangerous condition of cold snaps and spring snow storms. BTW, not all all seasons have the same all season performance, just like not all summer or winter tires have the same performance for their niche. Do your research on which all seasons work well. I have Conti DWS. I drove just fine last winter in every snow event, and no accidents, never got stuck, and enjoyed the superior characteristics of all seasons compared to snow tires for the conditions we had. I think all seasons will work just fine in Dallas. Just like others have their opinion on tires, I too am sharing mine. I don't claim that my view is the right view. It is right for me. Also, I do not disparage others views on the subject as they make decisions based on their experience and view. I offer my comments and experience so that you can use them, if you want, to make your decision.
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11-18-2010, 10:38 PM	#9
scott135i Colonel 356 Rep 2,080 Posts Drives: 2020 X5 M50i Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Metro iTrader: (12)	I had 2 Manual Trans/RWD Cadillac CTS's with All Season's (shitty stock tires) and did just fine over the course of 4 winters in the NYC area. Smart driving is equally important.
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12-05-2010, 02:16 AM	#10
bluebimmer135 New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2009 Motego Blue 135i Coupe Join Date: May 2009 Location: Belleville, NJ iTrader: (0)	Yes, snow/ice tires like X-ice 2 and WS60 would definitely not be necessary and also give you less traction on dry roads, but i would try performance winter tires like Michelin Alpin Pilot PA3, which has optimal traction and better traction than all seasons below 45 plus much better traction in light snows.
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12-05-2010, 10:36 AM	#11
IGoFast1589 Captain 49 Rep 654 Posts Drives: 08 135i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	Purpose built snow tires are the only way to go if you would like to get around in the snow. No all season will ever be able to match a full snow tire. It's like if you had two olympic runners, but one was wearing ski boots and the other was wearing running shoes. Who do you think will be able to run faster? They're both as capable, but the clearly the runner wearing running shoes will be able to run faster. I would only use all seasons if I was looking to achieve good rain and or cold temperature performance and the car wasn't going to see snow usage or very very little snow.
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12-06-2010, 10:18 AM	#13
MikeinAlexandria Lieutenant 44 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 128i M Sport Convertible Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA iTrader: (0)	I have yet to find really good all-season tires. They don't have that much traction in snow and not enough grip on dry pavement on hot summer days. That said, I have mainly used Goodyear, Pirelli and Yokohama all-season tires on lower powered BMWs. (E30-E36...). Michelin makes a sports version of their all-season tire which might fill the bill for Texas. As others are saying, the best in real snow are real snow tires. But, they will wear very quickly once temps go above 40 degrees.
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12-06-2010, 10:57 AM	#14
Red Bread Major General 4463 Rep 9,160 Posts Drives: Smog machines Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Just to eat a little crow here, I had Michelin Pilot A/S's installed on my wife's 135i. Both of our folks live in snow infested areas, and we really needed at least one car that could handle a little snow and ice. Plus there's some comfort in knowing that her car won't be as big of a handful as mine with PS2's in the snow. We made a trip to Santa Fe over Thanksgiving, which had a little snow on the ground, just enough to try them out. They're certainly not great in the snow, but leagues better than PS2's or the stock RE050a's. I'd originally ordered the better rated Conti DWS tires, but the rears were backordered at Discount, so I went with the Michelins. My wife's pleased with the ride improvement over the runflats, and handling wise, I'd say it's about the same as stock, without the tendency to get really unsettled if there's a mid-turn bump. Overall, after making fun of A/S tires for Dallas, I realized that not all of our driving is done locally, and that my wife has a lower tolerance of stupid ideas than I have, so the all seasons have been a successful compromise so far. Not as grippy as PS2's, but then my wife doesn't drive her car like I drive mine, and it also won't see track days like mine does.
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12-06-2010, 01:55 PM	#17
Nifty Second Lieutenant 74 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1)	I've had my Conti DWS for about 16,000 miles now and they are now entering their second Central illinois winter. They preformed great last year, and I've yet to get stuck even in snow at the bumper on an uphill grade. No one, including myself would question a dedicated snow tires superiority, but for the amount of snow we get the conti's strike a great balance. A note about tire wear: The tires have a D,W and S engraved into the tread, the idea being that as each letter wears away, you shoud no longer drive in those conditions. That said, after 16,000 miles my tires show the follwing: Fronts: Look brand new, the 'S' marking on the tires is still deep. They will have no problem making through the 45,000 miles of my lease. Rears: The 'S' is BARELY there. Even, so I've already driven on them a few times this winter in some bad conditions and I am not worried about their ability. I'm not sure yet if they will make it through another winter. If I only needed them for dry/wet I don't think they would have any problem going 40,000 miles. So, over 45,000 miles of pretty aggressive driving, I MIGHT need to replace the rears once. Not bad for a tire that stay on year round. Just my 2 cents.
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