PistonHeads - BMW 1 SERIES M COUPE: PH HEROES

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

Well, I guess, if you think your 1M is the new E30.

Again... YES. Why ? because it is a small BMW sports car and it is the first version of M car based on that model line.

E30... First 3 series M car... the E30 M3 - limited in production clearly a classic..... crazy resale values...

E8x... First 1/2 series M car.. the 1 M.... limited in production... Already a cult classic.. crazy resale values...

ok...so i have made my case.. how about you tell me WHY IT WON'T BE ... seeing what has happened with the 1M to date?

[ORIGIN M.]

For anyone who loved the 1er, the 1er M Coupe' was nothing short of a hero.

[Alex07M3]

Ahhh, that's how people think on this side of the forum! I see I see! lol

[i_love_cars]

Well.....

Pretty happy with my plain-jane 135. I get compliments all the time - rare color with good aesthetic mods, and to enthusiasts, they know what it is. I haven't spent a fortune (more like 5k) and have a LSD and as much power as a 1M. Throw in coilovers and while the 1M is still better setup in terms of suspension, purely in factual terms - the performance is absolutely close enough at that point that a good driver can easily overtake a 1M at the track, despite the fact that the 1M has a slight technical advantage. The only real point you could argue is that the 1M supports wider tires - but even that has diminishing returns on this car because with a big enough square setup that loads the front wheel wells really wide, you'll understeer pretty bad. Let's not overstate things here, though, people. I've seen guys in bone stock E30 M3s overtake e9x M3 at the track. These are ALL highly capable cars we're talking about.

I want an E9x M3 because the motor is special. I want an E60 M5 because the motor is special. I want an E30 because it's iconic. I want a 1M because I've always loved how the 1-series is the 'odd duck' so-to-speak of BMWs recent lineups, and the 1M sets itself apart.

Not a single one of those cars (sorry e9x guys) is THAT special - they each have a very cool appeal in a particular dimension i.e. e9x not that special on the whole but who wouldn't love to listen to that V8 every day? I sure would. (arguably the E30 is wholly special because it ushered in a whole new level of performance for BMW in a street car). And every one of these cars we're talking about has a soul - they all have character when you drive them.

Regarding comparisons to Porsches - given equal driver skill, BMWs will always falter at the track in the face of higher-end cars like Porsche that are built specifically for the track much moreso than a BMW. BMW has always been about balance and manners across the board - the reason M3 was THE gold standard for 20 years, was because they did so much right, and were still healthily above average in the performance/tracking department. At the end of the day, all of these cars make great DDs and fun HPDE cars - but not a single one will ever come close to competing with a GT3 or any other higher-end porsche.

If I could, I'd have many BMWs. All too often this talk of the 1M degrades into bullshit between (usually) M3 guys and 1-series owners. People should be a bit more pragmatic and realize that neither one of those cars are race cars - they are well balanced DDs that are track-oriented and allow for a lot of fun at an HPDE.

BMW has perhaps one of the largest number of models that have gained cult-followings from enthusiasts over the years - the 2002, the e30, e46 M3, any Z with an M badge, etc. I'm sure the 1M will show some depreciation but not much - it will always have a cult following, regardless of what the M2 does.

I probably will never buy a 1M, but they are undeniably F'ing cool cars. But if pure performance is your desire, then I liken it to the same argument people have made against the porsche - 50-60k for the 1M vs. 115k for the porsche; for 99% of the population, the performance difference would go unnoticed. I can buy a clean 135i for low 20's, throw 7k into it maybe, and have VERY comparable performance to a 1M which would cost me 30k more. That's a damn hefty price difference for a relatively low difference in performance.

I personally think they are just such beautiful cars - if I had money I wanted to light a match to, I would buy a 1M and just look at it every day for 20 minutes. I'm definitely in the camp of people who think the 1-series is a beautiful car.

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by i_love_cars

Well.....
I personally think they are just such beautiful cars - if I had money I wanted to light a match to, I would buy a 1M and just look at it every day for 20 minutes. I'm definitely in the camp of people who think the 1-series is a beautiful car.

This is the only reason I got mine.

Hell, I've never even used the sport button or take it out when the winds are over 10km/h (flying debris risk).

Whenever I want to drive a real car I remove the groceries from the trunk and flog my mom's e92 M3.

[UNO///M]

When the F80 M3/M4 comes out you will see a lot of 1M for sale.... When the M235 comes out everybody is going to ditch their glorified 1 series.... .When the M2 comes out they would trade those Frankensteins..... when... When.... Only then....

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by GimmeanM3

INTERNET FIGHT!!! hahaha. kidding.

I did realize this was on the main page.

^^You have some interesting points. What I would like to know is what was the 1M driver doing that day? Maybe he wasn't pushing that hard on purpose? Maybe he wasn't as good of a driver as you? Who knows? If I ever did or do decide to track my car I assure you I'll be going pretty easy…not really looking to shunt a low mileage 1M. But to come to your conclusion based on that one occurrence may be a bit hasty?
Honestly I don't know much about Pobst, so I have no idea, but I'd be curious to know what he does like? You have to agree that his opinion is (while maybe more track-focused than most) a contrary opinion to almost every other review.

Either way, taking a step back and looking at it, some journalists were just thinking "Hey, remember that 1M from 3 years ago, that was a pretty great car" That, in and of itself is pretty cool. It's good for 1M owners, it's good for the upcoming M2 and its good for BMW in total.

We're all on the same team here right!

As originally stated, my encounter might not mean much, as there are a lot of variables, but to elude to some of your questions about the seriousness of the driver in the 1M........ he was in the same run group, which was sorted by experience and he had some dedicated track wheels and tires, so I am pretty sure he was pushing it about as much as most guys do at that level. I have no desire to wreck my car either, so I am not at the absolute limit myself. That being said, you are right, I don't know how good of a driver he was for certain, but you don't tend to get in to those run groups unless you have worked your way up and even if I am a couple of seconds a lap quicker than him as a driver, the car didn't make up for that, which I kind of expected with a lot of the hype I had heard.

Yes, Pobst's opinion is just one of many and based mostly on track capabilities. But that is an important factor on a car like this and is something I consider. A lot of today's car reviewers, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris etc love to drift cars and talk about balance when doing so. That is all fine and good and probably a lot of fun, but the fastest way around a track ain't sideways throwing the tail out. Maybe that is where the reviews get mixed up?

I think the point that numerous people are trying to make here, in a respect full way, is that the 1M is special, but wouldn't be THAT special had BMW not artificially created such a demand for it with the limited production. Which is also why the resale has been so good. That is economics 101. Sure a car needs to be somewhat capable, or a limited production means nothing, but we are talking about an M car after all, and BMW has not made a bad M car yet, so that was kind of a no brainer that it would be sought after.

All that being said, I'd love to own one, and wish I had gotten one when they were introduced, because I would have been able to drive it for 3-4 year with nearly no depreciation. There are two huge pluses to the 1M. Value retention and exclusivity. However looks wise and performance wise it is not the best BMW has to offer. Trust me I know the feeling I have a e30 M3. It is not the best performing BMW, but it retains its value and is exclusive. I get it!

[SpencerMH]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

2011 1M. 48-53k
2011 Porsche GT3 base price 114K

That's a long way to go to find shortcomings

Exactly, give me a gt3 and ill shut up about how much I love my 1m but that's a long way to go. As I've skimmed this and read about those saying what it is, I always use "its a 135 stretched over an m3's subframes and suspension" when asked what it is, so I certainly feel that way to an extent and for the most part, and on the street, a 135 with a chip and suspension will offer similar performance and experience, not the same but very similar. I track mine a few times a year though and even asides from that, even on the street, with fbo power the 1m really shows its differences, the 1m has all the big hard to do mods you'd want to be able to handle the power and handle it on track in a way a 135 never could without an ungodly amount of work and at the end of the day that 135 modified beyond recognition would not be reliable or solid in comparison. 1m's extra cooling, ability to hold a ton of tire, where that tire is positioned, the LSD, high speed rack change its capabilities and characteristics drastically, it is a beast and a handful on track. It will never blow past well driven z06's, turbo s's or gt3's but it competes well above its pay grade with some basic mods and it is a blast to drive without needing to hit 160 on the straights in your mc claren. It is what everyone with a 135 would do to address all of the 135's shortcomings but still have the small wheelbase and torquey inline 6tt, but bmw did it which is always quite nice. I just can't imagine what Id rather drive short of exotic and hence I have my 1m just out of warranty that I can't seem to part with, I go and test drive the competition and I usually leave saying "it has a warranty, it's probably as fast in most situations, and the interiors far superior" but unless I'm trying to pick up chicks who don't care about a 1m in general, I can't find anything short of a semi exotic Id rather have.

Oh and my biggest criticism of the 1M isn't its short wheel base and the instability that goes along with it, or explaining its a 1M not an M1, the real negative to be spoken of is the aerodynamics imo, it just loses steam, still tons of power but you feel the drag as you get into triple digits and lessor powered cars hang pretty well.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by norMcal

As originally stated, my encounter might not mean much, as there are a lot of variables, but to elude to some of your questions about the seriousness of the driver in the 1M........ he was in the same run group, which was sorted by experience and he had some dedicated track wheels and tires, so I am pretty sure he was pushing it about as much as most guys do at that level. I have no desire to wreck my car either, so I am not at the absolute limit myself. That being said, you are right, I don't know how good of a driver he was for certain, but you don't tend to get in to those run groups unless you have worked your way up and even if I am a couple of seconds a lap quicker than him as a driver, the car didn't make up for that, which I kind of expected with a lot of the hype I had heard.

Yes, Pobst's opinion is just one of many and based mostly on track capabilities. But that is an important factor on a car like this and is something I consider. A lot of today's car reviewers, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris etc love to drift cars and talk about balance when doing so. That is all fine and good and probably a lot of fun, but the fastest way around a track ain't sideways throwing the tail out. Maybe that is where the reviews get mixed up?

I think the point that numerous people are trying to make here, in a respect full way, is that the 1M is special, but wouldn't be THAT special had BMW not artificially created such a demand for it with the limited production. Which is also why the resale has been so good. That is economics 101. Sure a car needs to be somewhat capable, or a limited production means nothing, but we are talking about an M car after all, and BMW has not made a bad M car yet, so that was kind of a no brainer that it would be sought after.

All that being said, I'd love to own one, and wish I had gotten one when they were introduced, because I would have been able to drive it for 3-4 year with nearly no depreciation. There are two huge pluses to the 1M. Value retention and exclusivity. However looks wise and performance wise it is not the best BMW has to offer. Trust me I know the feeling I have a e30 M3. It is not the best performing BMW, but it retains its value and is exclusive. I get it!

the E30 M3 is not the end all of all performance cars....sorry to burst your bubble. there are other E30 M3 owners here, many of which own BOTH and I trust their assessment far more than yours. performance wise the 1M faaaaar exceeds any capability the E30 M3 had....objectively speaking. No contest.

looks wise and performance wise (directness, rawness, urgency, simplicity)....there is no equal to the 1M in the modern lineup....which is why it's so desirable. Your experiences are from a track day of a few wave by passes...sorry but that's inadequate to evaluate the merits of a car....if anything that's more adequate to assess driver abilities.

The Pobst review is a total statistical outlier and I can't take it seriously at all. the reality is that nearly everyone gushed about this car and it punches above it's weight and price point.

as for the E30 M3....I love it. It's the first BMW I ever fell in love with....

[1mGator]

Originally Posted by 1'M Blue

A cast iron investment that's an utter riot to drive - what could be more heroic than the 1 M Coupe?








Source : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=31384

Still smile every time I start up my 1m! Still in love with all BMW's I have owned from 2002, to E30, to e46 M3 .... They are all special cars that evoke passion. Let's all just agree that the letter "M" is special when displayed in the rear of any BMW.

[1mGator]

Originally Posted by nachob

It's sad that after all these year there are still people that say that we never landed on the moon, the Holocaust didn't happen and that the 1M is a tuned 135i. The sheetmetal was different to start with and it can accomodate bigger rubber. It wasn't just a body kit, different sheetmetal. Suspension components were lighter than 135i. The brakes were M3 brakes not for looks as the 135i calipers looked nicer, but M found them to be stronger for track duty and no ceramic piston failures like on 135s. The exhaust was gnarly and different. The flywheel was lightened. The diff was M-sport full lock. It only came in MANual and no sunroof. It weighed less than 135i. The steering rack was hydraulic M3 rack, faster than 135i. The 135i in 2011 was an N55, not N54. Also, the 1M had M-Dynamic traction control, not available on 135i. These are not simple tuner changes!

Retrofitting the hydraulic rack, M3 diff and replacing lighter flywheel and fitting the ZCP M3 wheels and suspension is quite a bit of mechanical and body work. I'm sure a tuner can do all that and add the extra power but at what cost?

What made the 1M special and different from 135i for me was the fact that it was only offered in manual and it will be the last BMW ever offered in manual only. It was the first BMW to have the air curtains which now every BMW has them even the M3 and M4. It was the first turbo M car, which now all the M cars are that way.


Many don't see it as special because the hype is so high that it sets unrealistic expectations for some, especially when so many BMW fans put more importance on creature comforts and gadgets which are not what the 1M was targeted too. You can see that by the fact that most were ordered fully loaded. Many of the gripes were that many wanted automatic in the 1M and some even griped because there was no light in the vanity mirror in the 1M.

Also, most are fixated on numbers and not how a car drives. You see that all day with guys quoting .2 second 0-60 time to completely discount the joy of a manual transmission or saying the M235i is better because it lapped the Ring faster. Sorry, the M235i is a car I could possibly own but not even close to 1M is visceral excitement and driving feel.

The 1M was targeted to a smaller audience than any other BMW. Just by the fact that it was manual only with mechanical firm suspension.

Every other BMW is targeted at every other type with all sorts of options, self parking, interior colors, comfort suspension, automatic, etc, etc, etc so it's natural that it's not for everyone but it is undeniably a very special car in the BMW lineage. It was the last and final analog masterpiece that BMW created. The new cars like M2 and M3 and M4 will appeal to the masses and will post better numbers but they will not have the character, like it or not, that the 1M has.

NachoB

Happy New Year! As usual spoken like an engineer dedicated to facts .... For me we are all just a bunch of A+ car lovers having "spirited" discussions. Peace, love and BMW's!

[Judge Dredd]

Originally Posted by -Z-

You guys can argue all day long... As an original owner, it brings smile on my face every time I see people trying to take pics of my 3 year old ride, parking lots, gas stations, on the road

Same with 135? M3? M4? I don't think so! LOL

P.S.
There is a word for that feeling you might have when 'one' will drive in the next lane to you on highway... you know it Just be honest with yourself. You will be searching for answers in your head... what was that?!! and then you will find yourself a need of modifying the hack out of your 135/M3, spending 10/15/20K range trying to be as cool... until that moment again... and you will feel that all of your efforts was a waste of time, because your 135/M3 will never become an 1M...

buy one, if you want it! Or, get something that can truly compete on the cool factor, like a GTR, and Porsche RS 4, a Black Mecr, or some other beast

what is a Porsche RS 4?

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the E30 M3 is not the end all of all performance cars....sorry to burst your bubble. there are other E30 M3 owners here, many of which own BOTH and I trust their assessment far more than yours. performance wise the 1M faaaaar exceeds any capability the E30 M3 had....objectively speaking. No contest.

looks wise and performance wise (directness, rawness, urgency, simplicity)....there is no equal to the 1M in the modern lineup....which is why it's so desirable. Your experiences are from a track day of a few wave by passes...sorry but that's inadequate to evaluate the merits of a car....if anything that's more adequate to assess driver abilities.

The Pobst review is a total statistical outlier and I can't take it seriously at all. the reality is that nearly everyone gushed about this car and it punches above it's weight and price point.

as for the E30 M3....I love it. It's the first BMW I ever fell in love with....

Did you even read the last sentence of my previous posting? I said that there are better BMW performance cars than the e30 M3. I also wrote earlier that mine is set up for track. It is far from stock, but the point was that my hp to weight was the same as the 1M and we were on the exact same tires. I also said it might not mean much, so I thought it was clear that I just shared my experience.

Yes, it means very little and was only one encounter, but how often do I, or anybody else for that matter, have a chance to drive against a 1M on the track? And what are the odds of us being in the same run group and have the same tires? Pretty darn small chance of that ever happening with only 800 cars in this country, so I thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

There are numerous people in this thread that stated the exact same thing. That the 1M is a great car and has a tremendous resale value, but both those factors are skewed by the limited production numbers. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I am happy you love the car so much and think the world of it. It is a great car and I would be proud to own one as well, but that would not mean that I can't objectively see why the prices of are where they are. There are plenty of cars that the automotive press marvels over, even more so than the 1M, but guess what, those cars depreciate over the years, when they aren't built in limited numbers.

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by -Z-

You guys can argue all day long... As an original owner, it brings smile on my face every time I see people trying to take pics of my 3 year old ride, parking lots, gas stations, on the road

Same with 135? M3? M4? I don't think so! LOL

P.S.
There is a word for that feeling you might have when 'one' will drive in the next lane to you on highway... you know it Just be honest with yourself. You will be searching for answers in your head... what was that?!! and then you will find yourself a need of modifying the hack out of your 135/M3, spending 10/15/20K range trying to be as cool... until that moment again... and you will feel that all of your efforts was a waste of time, because your 135/M3 will never become an 1M...

buy one, if you want it! Or, get something that can truly compete on the cool factor, like a GTR, and Porsche RS 4, a Black Mecr, or some other beast

What exactly is a Porsche RS 4?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Did you even read the last sentence of my previous posting? I said that there are better BMW performance cars than the e30 M3. I also wrote earlier that mine is set up for track. It is far from stock, but the point was that my hp to weight was the same as the 1M and we were on the exact same tires. I also said it might not mean much, so I thought it was clear that I just shared my experience.

Yes, it means very little and was only one encounter, but how often do I, or anybody else for that matter, have a chance to drive against a 1M on the track? And what are the odds of us being in the same run group and have the same tires? Pretty darn small chance of that ever happening with only 800 cars in this country, so I thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

There are numerous people in this thread that stated the exact same thing. That the 1M is a great car and has a tremendous resale value, but both those factors are skewed by the limited production numbers. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I am happy you love the car so much and think the world of it. It is a great car and I would be proud to own one as well, but that would not mean that I can't objectively see why the prices of are where they are. There are plenty of cars that the automotive press marvels over, even more so than the 1M, but guess what, those cars depreciate over the years, when they aren't built in limited numbers.

go drive one...then you might actually have an opinion with some credibility!

[jhall1957]

I think the GM at my local BMW dealership said it best. Name one other car that went up in value the minute you bought it. Of course, we are talking about non-exotics.

Remember, many of us bought ours at MSRP or less (Euro Del= $47k, as in my case).

I took a a$$ whipping when I bought the "special" TT-RS.

Don't blame those that didn't get one for not understanding.

[SpencerMH]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Did you even read the last sentence of my previous posting? I said that there are better BMW performance cars than the e30 M3. I also wrote earlier that mine is set up for track. It is far from stock, but the point was that my hp to weight was the same as the 1M and we were on the exact same tires. I also said it might not mean much, so I thought it was clear that I just shared my experience.

Yes, it means very little and was only one encounter, but how often do I, or anybody else for that matter, have a chance to drive against a 1M on the track? And what are the odds of us being in the same run group and have the same tires? Pretty darn small chance of that ever happening with only 800 cars in this country, so I thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

There are numerous people in this thread that stated the exact same thing. That the 1M is a great car and has a tremendous resale value, but both those factors are skewed by the limited production numbers. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I am happy you love the car so much and think the world of it. It is a great car and I would be proud to own one as well, but that would not mean that I can't objectively see why the prices of are where they are. There are plenty of cars that the automotive press marvels over, even more so than the 1M, but guess what, those cars depreciate over the years, when they aren't built in limited numbers.

You're point about one limited track experience isn't a great one, not much meat to it, but an interesting story that should be told here.

I want to say that you're being very reasonable though, the 1M is better than the sum of its parts, it came together to be a very fun car, it's proportions are nearly comically square(super wide body due to being the width of a wide body 3, the m3)which the m2 won't be and most cars aren't for better or worse, but it's not a magical porsche beater and equally modded m3's are certainly equals tough to hang with in higher speed sections where they're more composed, I think I'm having more fun in my little bulldog 1m though, but it is so "special" and retains its value because it's good enough to have had a nearly unlimited run of cars made and purchased but didn't. The rarity teamed with it being a formula fit for enthusiasts and that it is an awkwardly awesome end result creates the high values and attention, not its track prowess. Any old corvette is a better track car.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

go drive one...then you might actually have an opinion with some credibility!

Oh, so if I drive one it will change the fact that I think it is a great car that is overvalued due to a low production?

[SpencerMH]

Oh and its hella fun to go from 5mph-60mph or so on the street the same way any n54 is but with the ability to put the power down like no other n54 based car can

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by SpencerMH

You're point about one limited track experience isn't a great one, not much meat to it, but an interesting story that should be told here.

I want to say that you're being very reasonable though, the 1M is better than the sum of its parts, it came together to be a very fun car, it's proportions are nearly comically square(super wide body due to being the width of a wide body 3, the m3)which the m2 won't be and most cars aren't for better or worse, but it's not a magical porsche beater and equally modded m3's are certainly equals tough to hang with in higher speed sections where they're more composed, I think I'm having more fun in my little bulldog 1m though, but it is so "special" and retains its value because it's good enough to have had a nearly unlimited run of cars made and purchased but didn't. The rarity teamed with it being a formula fit for enthusiasts and that it is an awkwardly awesome end result creates the high values and attention, not its track prowess. Any old corvette is a better track car.

Thanks for taking it for what it is worth and understanding my point.

[-Z-]

Originally Posted by F82FTW

What exactly is a Porsche RS 4?

GT3 RS 4.0

[-Z-]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Oh, so if I drive one it will change the fact that I think it is a great car that is overvalued due to a low production?

overvalued?! what kind of 'value' are we talking about? economical? emotional? cool factor? in many of those terms, it's hard to put a price tag on this thing, to me at least...