Camber plate install?

[Ginger_Extract]

Hey all, trying to install Vorshlag plates on my stock springs and dampers. I have done strut-type suspension installs before, so I had a good grasp on the install process. However, after pulling the spring top hat off, and going to swap on the Vorshlag plate, the strut shaft had retracted about 4-6" into the shock body. No matter how much I compress the spring, I can't get it to thread into the top hat. I've tried pulling the strut shaft, but there's no real movement. Is there a trip to bolting the suspension back together?

[PrematureApex]

Can you wrap a rubber band or tape around the shaft at the strut body to hold it out in extension?

Another question (but not on-topic at this point). Why are you installing camber plates on an otherwise stock suspension?

If you need that much camber, I'm assuming you're tracking the car. If that's the case, you're going to quickly realize at least those struts have got to go! Waaaay bigger difference than camber plates, and you'll have to do this install all again anyway.

[Ginger_Extract]

At most of the tracks I run at, there are few areas of deep compression, so I don't mind using the OE dampers in that regard. Honestly, I'm most aware of how under-damped the car is when driving on the street.

Also, I'm a fan of making the least amount of changes necessary to get the results I'm looking for. Outer tire wear has not been terrible for me, so I just need a bit more negative camber than what the car can currently give.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

At most of the tracks I run at, there are few areas of deep compression, so I don't mind using the OE dampers in that regard. Honestly, I'm most aware of how under-damped the car is when driving on the street.

Also, I'm a fan of making the least amount of changes necessary to get the results I'm looking for. Outer tire wear has not been terrible for me, so I just need a bit more negative camber than what the car can currently give.

I'm much like you, believe me. Always looking for the most value/$$$.

Believe me. I've been everywhere, from stock, to coilovers, to back again, on many platforms. All my cars have wound up the same way. Plates, bars, and real shocks, with very low spring rates (stock or otherwise...although if I had a weekend only car, things would be different).

Bars, camber, and shocks. No need to resort to high spring rates. But don't skip the shocks. I'm cheaper than you, I promise!

Anyway, good luck with the install. Do something to grip the shaft at the seal. But, honesty...and this is coming from someone who's cheaper than cheap, but real shocks on the car. Best money you'll spend, street or track.

[Ginger_Extract]

At this point, I can't even put the car back together, so this is going to end in a massive tow bill, and an even more massive bill for someone to put the car back togehter.

[PrematureApex]

Did you try wrapping tape or rubber bands around the base?

Others have tried the same thing w/ success. Search a bit more. You're not the first one with this issue.

Do you have another car?

If so...how is the fact that your shocks are folding up not reason enough to exchange the tow-bill+labor cost to replace those POSs? You'd break even and not waste your time installing things twice that are inevitable?

Again, I'm cheaper than you. Putting spherical bearing-based camber plats on the OE suspension is beyond a waste.

[Ginger_Extract]

I wrapped the strut shaft base with duct tape, that gave me a bit, but not enough.

Called out to the local car community and was able to get a second set of compressors. I have all four maxed out.

This is my only car.

The plates are built for OEM spring/OEM shock, even if I had the means to get new shocks, the plates wouldn't fit. Besides a different shock isn't going to make the springs any shorter.

I'm just trying to put the car back to stock now, but it's still not happening.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

I wrapped the strut shaft base with duct tape, that gave me a bit, but not enough.

Called out to the local car community and was able to get a second set of compressors. I have all four maxed out.

This is my only car.

The plates are built for OEM spring/OEM shock, even if I had the means to get new shocks, the plates wouldn't fit. Besides a different shock isn't going to make the springs any shorter.

I'm just trying to put the car back to stock now, but it's still not happening.

Koni yellows and bilsteins are OEM size. They fit any plates that work with stock, including stock tophats. They stay extended and don't extract like the OE piece of shits. Have you ever seen a stock strut compress itself under no load? Yeah, neither have I.

Anyway, i know all of that is no help to you at this point.

I'll kepe ooking around...but others have faced your issue, and have come up with ways to hold the OE struts extended enough to get the tophats started.

If a bit of tape worked...how about more? Wrapping a ton of take around it won't prevent it from retracting?

[PrematureApex]

If you have them significantly compressed...i.e. compressed enough to get them under the fenders....

Insert them into the lower collar and use a jack under the control arm to jack the assembly into position in the strut tower. Use the weight of the car to compress the spring?

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

If you have them significantly compressed...i.e. compressed enough to get them under the fenders....

Insert them into the lower collar and use a jack under the control arm to jack the assembly into position in the strut tower. Use the weight of the car to compress the spring?

I thought about that, but part of the problem is the shape of the spring is not flat, so when it's seated in the spring seat, I can't fit the camber plates/strut tops onto the spring and thread the strut shaft through....

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

At this point, I can't even put the car back together, so this is going to end in a massive tow bill, and an even more massive bill for someone to put the car back togehter.

I don't know where your car is sitting, but all you need is for someone to assemble the strut for you so you can install it. No need to tow the entire car. How about taking the strut to a BMW dealer to have them compress the spring.

The OE strut is pressurized on both sides of the piston so it's neutral position is "half way". I discovered this myself when doing the same thing as you but with GC camber plates. In retrospect I would have made a pair of aluminum clamping blocks to match the shaft diameter and clamped the shaft so it couldn't retract, before I took the spring off. I know it is too late for you but someone else contemplating the same installation might benefit.

It is not a problem when changing to aftermarket struts because these all (as far as I know) are fully extended when relaxed.

In the end, I modified a spring compressor with a top plate to which the camber plate was bolted and I pulled until the shaft entered the camber plate enough to get the nut on. This was not a very elegant solution but it worked. I don't really recommend trying to duplicate the method. It is dubious and dangerous. Sufficiently so I was disinclined to take a picture of the process. Better to find someone with a really good commercial spring compressor to do it for you. The cheapie spring compressors you can easily buy or rent are nowhere near the equal of a commercial unit.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

If you have them significantly compressed...i.e. compressed enough to get them under the fenders....

Insert them into the lower collar and use a jack under the control arm to jack the assembly into position in the strut tower. Use the weight of the car to compress the spring?

I should opine that this method is even more dangerous than the one I used. I can guarantee that a) you will break something, and b) you won't succeed. Personal injury is not guaranteed, but highly likely.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by fe1rx

I should opine that this method is even more dangerous than the one I used. I can guarantee that a) you will break something, and b) you won't succeed. Personal injury is not guaranteed, but highly likely.

?

There's nothing dangerous about it. On every other car, it works 100% fine. Insert bottom of strut in collar. Jack strut into top hat bolted into the car.

No risk to anything, or anyone. I think you misunderstood.

Secure bottom of strut, secure tophat onto strut tower. Jack strut shaft (compressing spring) into top hat.

There is no difference, at all, in having a jack do the compression for you, vs. a spring compressor. In fact, with the jack, the fender, etc. is shielding you from any object, vs. compressing the spring out in the open. How is that not even safer? Break something? Break what that you wouldn't break with spring compressors?

Ridiculous assertion on your end.

You guarantee it? It's perhaps the most common method to do springs/shocks on most cars, sans the 135, which BMW has decided they don't want you to be able to fit the spring/strut between the knuckle and the fender.

Love the BS. Ridiculous.

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

?

Love the BS. Ridiculous.

On "every other car" the strut us fully extended so not much compression is needed to get the strut started in the top hat. On the 135 a lot of compression is needed to get it started because the shaft is only extended half way (OP's original problem). Keeping it aligned while jacking means keeping your hands in harms way while significant energy is stored in the spring. If it goes sideways (literally) you are damaging something.

Have you actually tried this on an OE strut or are you just guessing?

[Ginger_Extract]

Got Driver's side done, took 4 compressors, and two grown men to manhandle the shit out of it. Set camber to maximum.

Starting on passenger side now, and the 21mm top nut is spinning...Great.........

Edit: Got the strut out, got all 4 compressors set to maximum, and not even close to bolting up. My second set of hands has disappeared for the evening. Fuck me.

[Hops128i]

hope it works out for you!

[Ginger_Extract]

For those who are curious, I can now say that this install IS possible. A friend stepped in and came to the rescue, so we were able to manhandle the strut assembly and get everything bolted together.

Set the negative camber to maximum, which with stock springs/dampers, should be around -2 according to Vorshlag. The front wheels are now SERIOUSLY tucked in. I would say it's every bit of -2. Will be getting the car aligned tomorrow since the toe is visibly out on both sides.

Drove the car around the block a few time to listen for any catastrophic noises and all seemed well. Got it up to 70mph on the freeway for a few minutes. There is a definite increase in NVH, on compressions/dips where both wheels are loaded simultaneously, you can hear and feel the dampers in action. Lock-to-lock, the steering action is buttery smooth. Chalk that one up to Vorshlag's bearing top plate. When the suspension loads unequally, say having one tire hit a manhole cover, the plates themselves make a bit of noise. It's not terrible, but certainly not as quiet as the OEM strut tops.

Once I get the car aligned, I'll actually push it a bit and get more impressions about the changes made.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

Hey all, trying to install Vorshlag plates on my stock springs and dampers. I have done strut-type suspension installs before, so I had a good grasp on the install process. However, after pulling the spring top hat off, and going to swap on the Vorshlag plate, the strut shaft had retracted about 4-6" into the shock body. No matter how much I compress the spring, I can't get it to thread into the top hat. I've tried pulling the strut shaft, but there's no real movement. Is there a trip to bolting the suspension back together?

How many miles do you have on your OE struts? If they are losing their gas charge, it's time to replace them.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

How many miles do you have on your OE struts? If they are losing their gas charge, it's time to replace them.

25k. They are not leaking at all, and once assembled, seemed to have a solid compression/rebound reaction...

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract

25k. They are not leaking at all, and once assembled, seemed to have a solid compression/rebound reaction...

Well, define "solid". They're terrible. Terrible.

But I digress. Congrats on getting it done man! We need to see more of that around these parts!

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Well, define "solid". They're terrible. Terrible.

But I digress. Congrats on getting it done man! We need to see more of that around these parts!

Solid means that there was actually rebound. You'd be surprised how many cars I've had apart where the dampers were so fried that there was no rebound to give!

Got the car aligned:

F:
-2.1* camber
0 toe
6.7* caster

R:
-1.6* camber
1/8" total toe in

Initially, I set the plates to maximum, and was hitting -2.4. Dialed it back a bit just to leave a bit more clearance between the spring and the inside of the shock tower! Also, if tire wear dictates it later on, I have the ability to dial in a bit more should I need to.

[Stupenal]

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