Hood liner or sound insulation

[Stock4Evr]

Looks great, am interested. Where could I find one?

[Situation]

Originally Posted by NavSpook42

Looks great, am interested. Where could I find one?

I ordered it through the BMW parts at my local dealer - they ran the VIN and came up with the correct P/N. It took only a couple of days to arrive. The part number for my YM is on the product tag shown on pic.

[Stock4Evr]

Originally Posted by Situation

I ordered it through the BMW parts at my local dealer - they ran the VIN and came up with the correct P/N. It took only a couple of days to arrive. The part number for my YM is on the product tag shown on pic.

Thank you for your response. I just found one at http://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/8220...d-51489141036/ for $92.99. I will check with my local dealer too.

[bmw1racer]

ECS Tuning has it for $79.06: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...n/51489141036/

Never mind: They want $50 to ship it... That's nuts.

FCP Euro has it for $92.99... And free shipping: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...od-51489141036

[Stock4Evr]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

ECS Tuning has it for $79.06: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...n/51489141036/

Never mind: They want $50 to ship it... That's nuts.

FCP Euro has it for $92.99... And free shipping: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...od-51489141036

Any comments about either FCP Euro or eEuroparts. The price is the same with the exception of FCP having free shipping. Both located in CT.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

The idea that this thing will put out a fire is funny as fuck. No, it won't catch on fire itself, but it sure as hell isn't putting one out.

Yes, it's sound insulation. End of story.

I agree. I think IF one were to install this on a 135i... for sure it would catch on fire bc the turbo gets very hot under the hood.

Ever touch the hood on the passenger side after you've been out for a drive. Its damn hot!

Dack

[Stock4Evr]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I agree. I think IF one were to install this on a 135i... for sure it would catch on fire bc the turbo gets very hot under the hood.

Ever touch the hood on the passenger side after you've been out for a drive. Its damn hot!

Dack

Very interesting. I guess I will reconsider my purchase as I respect your opinions.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

The idea that this thing will put out a fire is funny as fuck. No, it won't catch on fire itself, but it sure as hell isn't putting one out.

Yes, it's sound insulation. End of story.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I agree. I think IF one were to install this on a 135i... for sure it would catch on fire bc the turbo gets very hot under the hood.

Ever touch the hood on the passenger side after you've been out for a drive. Its damn hot!

Dack

It is downright stunning to me how stupid, naive, ignorant and stubborn some members of this forum are.

I've just explained exactly how these under hood insulation pads work in the event of a fire: the plastic expanding rivets that fasten the liner to the hood melt, allowing to liner to fall onto the engine in hopes of smothering the fire to keep it contained so the vehicle occupants can safely egress. These liners are specifically manufactured using flame retardant materials that will not catch on fire.

I'm not sure how I can make this more clear. Yet, people continue replying with baseless conjecture. "It won't work because I don't think it will work."

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think IF one were to install this on a 135i... for sure it would catch on fire bc the turbo gets very hot under the hood.

Ever touch the hood on the passenger side after you've been out for a drive. Its damn hot!

So, Dack, you're effectively saying the pad would catch fire because the turbocharged engine of a 135i gets hot? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Feel free to exercise due diligence and research the temperature range at which engine fires typically burn. No, just because the 135i uses a turbocharged engine does not mean that an engine fire overwhelm the fire suppressing properties of the hood liner. That is a foolish assumption with zero scientific evidence to back it up.

[Stock4Evr]

Originally Posted by tock172

It is downright stunning to me how stupid, naive, ignorant and stubborn some members of this forum are.

I've just explained exactly how these under hood insulation pads work in the event of a fire: the plastic expanding rivets that fasten the liner to the hood melt, allowing to liner to fall onto the engine in hopes of smothering the fire to keep it contained so the vehicle occupants can safely egress. These liners are specifically manufactured using flame retardant materials that will not catch on fire.

I'm not sure how I can make this more clear. Yet, people continue replying with baseless conjecture. "It won't work because I don't think it will work."



So, Dack, you're effectively saying the pad would catch fire because the turbocharged engine of a 135i gets hot? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Feel free to exercise due diligence and research the temperature range at which engine fires typically burn. No, just because the 135i uses a turbocharged engine does not mean that an engine fire overwhelm the fire suppressing properties of the hood liner. That is a foolish assumption with zero scientific evidence to back it up.

This too makes an awful lot of sense. I am so easily swayed. I guess it is true what they say "ignorance is bliss". Tks for your comments.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by NavSpook42

This too makes an awful lot of sense. I am so easily swayed. I guess it is true what they say "ignorance is bliss". Tks for your comments.

I'm a huge fan of adding genuine parts like the hood insulation to my various BMWs. I love researching the part numbers and finding the best price. That being said, I would skip the hood insulation. Even though I explained how it works to suppress a fire, if a fire actually occurs, the car will be a total loss with or without the hood insulation - and by then, I will using my insurance settlement as a down payment on a Porsche. As others have said, the only noticeable effect it will have is quieting down the engine. If that's worth roughly $100 to you, go for it.

Originally Posted by NavSpook42

Any comments about either FCP Euro or eEuroparts. The price is the same with the exception of FCP having free shipping. Both located in CT.

I've ordered thousands worth of parts from FCP. They're an excellent vendor with industry leading customer service. They also price match as well.

[Stock4Evr]

tock172

Tks for your comments.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by tock172

It is downright stunning to me how stupid, naive, ignorant and stubborn some members of this forum are.

I think Dackelone was joking, but no, the pad wouldn't catch fire in a 135. It is flame retardant, after all, since it has to live next to a hot engine, but the real issue is it doesn't get THAT hot where this pad lives in a 135. If it did the paint would discolor among other issues.

No, it's not supposed to put out a car fire. Have you EVER seen an engine fire? That little pad isn't doing SHIT to stop one by falling out lol. Even if it was way bigger it still wouldn't help since the fire gets fed from below. Also, all automotive trim uses those plastic rivets. They're nothing special and they'll also take longer than you think to melt.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

No, it's not supposed to put out a car fire. Have you EVER seen an engine fire? That little pad isn't doing SHIT to stop one by falling out lol. Even if it was way bigger it still wouldn't help since the fire gets fed from below. Also, all automotive trim uses those plastic rivets. They're nothing special and they'll also take longer than you think to melt.

Please direct me to where I said the hood insulation would successfully extinguish an engine fire. Here's a hint: I never said that. I never once claimed the pad would extinguish an engine fire. Feel free to reference my previous posts. I specifically stated that the pad acts as a fire suppression device because of it's flame retardant construction.

You're also incorrect about the use of plastic expanding rivets. Yes, they are widely used to secure various panels both interior and exterior, but metal tensioners are also used extensively. Besides, it doesn't matter what other kind of fasteners are used, the point is that the specific ones used to fasten the insulation to the hood are plastic and would easily succumb to temperatures associated with an engine fire.

[Stock4Evr]

Bit the bullet and ordered the object in question.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by tock172

Please direct me to where I said the hood insulation would successfully extinguish an engine fire. Here's a hint: I never said that. I never once claimed the pad would extinguish an engine fire.

Originally Posted by tock172

I'm surprised to learn it has such an effect on noise. I believe the primary purpose is for it to act as a fire retardant that can fall onto the engine and supress/retard a fire.

Let me rephrase. The idea that this thing is gonna SUPPRESS a fire is cute.

Also, they use those plastic rivets because they save weight and cost over a metal fastener where a metal fastener isn't required.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Let me rephrase. The idea that this thing is gonna SUPPRESS a fire is cute.

Also, they use those plastic rivets because they save weight and cost over a metal fastener where a metal fastener isn't required.

Suppress: prevent the development, action, or expression of.
Extinguish: put an end to; annihilate.

You seem to be a fan of mincing words. I've kindly defined both terms you've decided to scrutinize so you can see that they are by no means interchangeable, under any circumstances.

If you're so adamant then I'm wrong, please tell me what automaker, in their right mind, would affix a piece of sound deadening material in close proximity without ensuring that the material had flame resistant properties?

Lastly, to address your asinine statement, a flame retardant hood liner that behaves as designed will absolutely suppress a fire by smothering the uppermost flames and denying the fire of oxygen. Like I said, the idea is not to extinguish the fire, but to retard it's progress and keep it isolated to the engine bay to ensure the occupants have time to escape.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by tock172

Lastly, to address your asinine statement

I think we've already established that the blanket itself isn't going to catch on fire. It's also going to do exactly nothing to an engine fire, and the part that keeps a fire from hurting occupants inside the car is metal that's in place between the engine bay and cabin haha. That blanket isn't part of the equation.

Oh, and you seem pretty fired up for a simple discussion on acoustic blankets. Keep in mind that personal insults only give ammo to the other person's arguments.

[KNS]

Automakers have been putting sound and thermal hood pads on cars for decades. Whether they're affixed using plastic rivets, metal fasteners or spray adhesive. And, naturally they've always been made of fire resistant material.

tock,

Do you happen to have any documentation on the fire suppression role (as you call it) that BMW designed into the item? I really find it hard to believe, particularly as BMW eliminated such a (potentially crucial) safety device on so many vehicles. It's a simple sound/heat pad, nothing more.

Not trying to be argumentative, I'd like to learn more about it if it's truly as you say...

[Bill B.]

I installed one under the hood of my 135i four years ago, and it hasn't caught on fire yet.

I also have one for my X1 (35i) and it's still in one piece.

Don't know if they've made much difference either way, though.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by tock172

It is downright stunning to me how stupid, naive, ignorant and stubborn some members of this forum are.

I've just explained exactly how these under hood insulation pads work in the event of a fire: the plastic expanding rivets that fasten the liner to the hood melt, allowing to liner to fall onto the engine in hopes of smothering the fire to keep it contained so the vehicle occupants can safely egress. These liners are specifically manufactured using flame retardant materials that will not catch on fire.

I'm not sure how I can make this more clear. Yet, people continue replying with baseless conjecture. "It won't work because I don't think it will work."



So, Dack, you're effectively saying the pad would catch fire because the turbocharged engine of a 135i gets hot? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Feel free to exercise due diligence and research the temperature range at which engine fires typically burn. No, just because the 135i uses a turbocharged engine does not mean that an engine fire overwhelm the fire suppressing properties of the hood liner. That is a foolish assumption with zero scientific evidence to back it up.

Yes, yes I am. Don't you think there is a reason why BMW did not install these on the cars in the first place? Its not like BMW didn't know they used them on the "other" 1er's.

It's common sense.

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

I think Dackelone was joking, but no, the pad wouldn't catch fire in a 135. It is flame retardant, after all, since it has to live next to a hot engine, but the real issue is it doesn't get THAT hot where this pad lives in a 135. If it did the paint would discolor among other issues.

No, it's not supposed to put out a car fire. Have you EVER seen an engine fire? That little pad isn't doing SHIT to stop one by falling out lol. Even if it was way bigger it still wouldn't help since the fire gets fed from below. Also, all automotive trim uses those plastic rivets. They're nothing special and they'll also take longer than you think to melt.

I was not joking.

Flame retardant does not mean fire proof. The turbo(s) generate a LOT of heat.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

I think we've already established that the blanket itself isn't going to catch on fire. It's also going to do exactly nothing to an engine fire, and the part that keeps a fire from hurting occupants inside the car is metal that's in place between the engine bay and cabin haha. That blanket isn't part of the equation.

Oh, and you seem pretty fired up for a simple discussion on acoustic blankets. Keep in mind that personal insults only give ammo to the other person's arguments.

You still don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying. Again, I never claimed that the liner has the capability to extinguish a fire, much less act as a barrier between a vehicle occupant and a fire, the way the engine firewall, which you referenced above, would. As I said previously, the idea is that it falls down over the engine (and fire) and does it's best to smother and deny the fire of oxygen so the occupants can exit the vehicle before the fire spreads. I never said the insulation's sole purpose is to protect the vehicle occupants. The primary purpose for the insulation pads is sound deadening, but they also function as an easily deployable fire retardant material that is in close proximity to the engine.

Originally Posted by KNS

Automakers have been putting sound and thermal hood pads on cars for decades. Whether they're affixed using plastic rivets, metal fasteners or spray adhesive. And, naturally they've always been made of fire resistant material.

tock,

Do you happen to have any documentation on the fire suppression role (as you call it) that BMW designed into the item? I really find it hard to believe, particularly as BMW eliminated such a (potentially crucial) safety device on so many vehicles. It's a simple sound/heat pad, nothing more.

Not trying to be argumentative, I'd like to learn more about it if it's truly as you say...

The thermal hood pads you're referencing from the cars of yesteryear do absolutely nothing in the way of fire suppression. These pads are attached to the hood using a spray adhesive and in the event of a fire, do essentially nothing aside from smoldering. Here's a perfect example of the old style hood liner that did nothing, as expected, when an engine fire occurred:



I'm sure there is internal documentation that could be referenced, but this sort of thing isn't typically accessible outside of the company. Also, just so we're clear, this isn't isolated to BMW. This is applicable to nearly every vehicle that employs a pad similar to the one referenced on the first page of this thread. The primary purpose of the insulation is to decrease the N in the acronym NVH, but it absolutely doubles as a fire retardant blanket that can fall onto the engine to smother flames in the event of an engine fire. Additionally, it appears as though BMW axed them in the name of cost cutting. They probably don't make that much of a difference in the long run, and their accountants likely figured they were not worth the added cost. Just some interesting food for thought: it appears as though current US-spec F22 2-series BMWs do include the insulation, so perhaps they've decided they're worth including now. You never know, but in relation to safety features, corporations do just enough to make sure they are covered in terms of liability and that's it. The added cost of installing fire retardant hood insulation was probably better off being diverted to the rainy day legal defense fund that every large company maintains.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Yes, yes I am. Don't you think there is a reason why BMW did not install these on the cars in the first place? Its not like BMW didn't know they used them on the "other" 1er's.

It's common sense.

The answer to your question is very simple: cost cutting. The 1-series is the bottom of the range for BMW. It's painfully obvious that the interior materials are cheaper than other models in the range, so it's only natural that things like a hood insulation liner come under the scrutiny of bean counters.

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I was not joking.

Flame retardant does not mean fire proof. The turbo(s) generate a LOT of heat.

Turbochargers themselves absolutely generate a lot of excess, latent heat, but every modern turbocharged vehicle has added cooling capability to address this. This has nothing to do with the hood insulation pad. I'm sure it can easily cope with the heat associated with an N54 or N54 power plant operating inches beneath it. Like I said above, BMW didn't include them because somewhere along the line, they decided they were not cost effective.