First Professional Reviews of 135is (Road and Track)

[BEAR-AvHistory]

We kept the 2004 330Ci ZHP 6MT convert till last month with 125K+ miles on it...expect the 135is will also be a keeper.

[mb135is]

Driving around for the first time with the windows/sunroof fully open, and the exhaust is just complete .

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by stefan

YES. I think the steering is probably most easily identifiable culprit. Followed closely by clutch, shifter (Seriously wtf is going on with that shifter? Was no R&D no effort put in at all? Bring on the 8sp slushboxes?)

I really don't understand the hate for electric PS here. Having come from a Honda background, electric PS can be fantastic! Try driving an S2000 or NSX and tell me the PS sucks. It can be a very, very good thing. Guess BMW has not figured out how to do it right yet. Being a mechanic I much prefer elect. PS, much simpler, lighter, and less HP loss to a PS pump.

One of my gripes is transmissions. I don't care how many speeds you put in there, a REAL drivers car has a clutch pedal. Period. Not open for discussion. So much car control is based on how the clutch is used. One of my favorite feelings of driving is nailing a perfect heel-toe downshift though the gears, 5.....4......3..... as I wind down into a corner, slowly on the gas to the apex, then full on power as I wind out the steering leaving the corner. Getting it perfect is tough. When you do........magical!!!!! That is what a driver's car is about. It is about the visceral experience, not just ultimate lap times. The automakers have forgotten this. Well most have. Toyota gets it with their FRS/BRZ.

To me, a driver's car should be tough to drive fast. Hence DRIVER involvement. If anybody can drive it fast, like the Skyline GTR, it is more about the impressive engineering and desing, and less about the driver.

Lotus gets it.
Toyota gets it (with the FRS)
BMW is loosing it.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

One of my gripes is transmissions. I don't care how many speeds you put in there, a REAL drivers car has a clutch pedal. Period. Not open for discussion. So much car control is based on how the clutch is used.

So in you esteemed opinion Formula I & Indy cars are controlled by fake as opposed to real drivers?

To me, a driver's car should be tough to drive fast.

Thank god you don't design race cars.

[MightyMouseTech]

There is a difference between being a fast car and a driver's car was my point.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Just so you understand I drive both & don't think either are "hard" to drive. A hard to drive car is a badly designed car in my personal opinion & would be quickly sold off.

I am sure you do track days & know the fastest way around a road course is to be very very smooth. Hard & smooth don't play well together.

Everybody in the family can drive a manual because I have always had at least one since 1960 when I got my drivers license on a 4 speed so maybe that's why we don't thing its all that big of a deal.

That being said a 6MT can be a lot of fun to drive.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Haywood

I was in my buddies E39 M5 the other day. 2002. Has 100K on it. Still looks and rides amazingly. Those cars are timeless. That's why I'd love a 1M. Gets back to the feel of an e46 which is arguably the best M car ever made.

It's nice to hear that people are still using E39 M5's as daily drivers. It is a very timeless car like you said. Hopefully the M2 will continue where the 1M left off.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Well, I can personally endorse the combination of an E39 M5 and E86 M Coupe...but I may be biased . The E39 M5 has been my DD since Dec. 2004 and I still love it. The M coupe is a different beast but pure "old school" M. I'm looking for a new DD to alternate with the M5. The 1M is fantastic, and I'm considering a used sample or a new 135is...or waiting for the M2. BMW has (in my opinion) lost its way with the larger cars but I am optimistic (particulary given the 1M) about the "smaller" cars.

I must say, I am jealous of the choices in your garage, expecially if you add a 1M to it.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I really don't understand the hate for electric PS here. Having come from a Honda background, electric PS can be fantastic! Try driving an S2000 or NSX and tell me the PS sucks. It can be a very, very good thing. Guess BMW has not figured out how to do it right yet. Being a mechanic I much prefer elect. PS, much simpler, lighter, and less HP loss to a PS pump.
.

Not a hater whatsoever. In fact, I love the Boss 302's steering even though it's an electric steering pump. BMW's just sucks. They can't do it. They were the kings of hydraulic steering.

[NavyChop93]

Hi Everyone,

If you have not done a 135is search on this site lately, just wanted to point out a great thread started by mb135is entitled "135is owners - show us your cars".

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766514

Check it out and, if you are an 135is owner, by all means post your pictures! Carbon Black has been trending high lately, looking for a vermillion red one if there is one out there!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

CHOP has an MOS meaning in the Navy doesn't it?

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by James T. Kirk

Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree with YOU. When I was a kid, I was at the DMV ready to go on my 16th birthday to get my license. I even took a day off of school to do it. Driving meant freedom and independence to my generation. The quality of that drive then became important as I gained experience on the road.

Today, my 16 year old could care less about driving or getting a car. Her socializing with friends, outside of school, is in large part virtual. That trend is generational on a global scale.
.

Couldn't agree more! Great post...or there is more than just the machine which is common among 1M owners

Good discussion in this thread. Basically, I don't even like a bit even the best of DCT boxes or real autos, sat nav screens, i-drive, electronic hand-brake, auto start-stop, adjustable dampers, electro-mechanic steering in a performance car (some or all can be acceptable in family cars though). That makes me lucky since I have none of those, not even power seats in my 1M, despite the fact that I do have everything I want and need; merely missing a manual dipstick instead of electronic one, and that's probably about it.

Don't have big hopes about the "feeling" of next 2 series or M2 either. It will be faster, more powerful, more efficient, more comfortable and more spacious car among other things, for sure. But I bet it will also be more indifferent to driver input and therefore will be more clinical and less visceral.

[NavyChop93]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

CHOP has an MOS meaning in the Navy doesn't it?

Very good! Yep, Chop is a nickname for Navy Supply Officers, specifically a submarine-based "Suppo"; surface ship nickname.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by swiss130

Well said. Let me add to your observation.

I'm 25 so I'm part of the generation Y aswell. I feel extremely privileged having been able/still being able to drive real driver's cars, ranging from 964 RS's to Z4M's.

Just yesterday I test-drove the M135i and - I hate to say that - it's a great car. The N55 and the 8 speed-auto work perfectly together. Subjectively I didn't feel a big difference speedwise to the DCT in the E9x M3. The ride has been improved so much over the E82 135i. The car feels well balanced and really agile.

But while driving home in my good old N54 135i I thought about the sound generator, my left foot feeling neglected and the precise and direct but blunt electric steering. I'm sure that it's faster plus easier to handle on a fast lap on the Nordschleife. But do I feel challenged? Maybe in a different way.

You see, for me it really is a love-hate relationship.

Coming back to the point you made: first of all I don't think that my generation is to blame. I might be biased but most of my 20-30 year old friends still love to shift manually and double-declutch if they have the opportunity. They adore classic driver's cars like the E30 or E46 and they dream about owning a CSL one day.

But as digital natives they're also attracted to gimmicks like the KW DDC coilovers with iPhone app or the Akrapovic WiFi exhaust kit.

And it's not only us "young" people that feel drawn to that kinda stuff; BMW produces what people demand. The current product lineup is a reflection of what people want isn't it?

I argue that BMW's demographic curve leans more toward 30+ than 25- so you guys are the target for BMW's marketing division not us (yet).

Kind regards,
Kevin

You do bring up a good point about the ever increasing amount of technological features found in new and upcoming cars. Manufacturers wouldn't be adding this stuff if customers were not asking for it and/or demanding it. So like you mentioned, there are those of us who are both car and technology "enthusiasts" ranging in age as well. The trend that some of us in this thread are alluding to though is that many people ages 16 - 20 these days have absolutely no interest in even learning how to drive. Instead, they are more interested in social networking and the latest mobile device to come to market. While this stuff can be interesting, it is baffling many of us (including the auto industry as a whole) that a generation can seemingly lose interest in driving overnight.

I have a couple of my own theories about it, with the first being a simple one. More people are moving closer to urban areas, so this younger generation may have greater access to public transportation than previous generations and thereby not need to drive a car to get around. My second theory relates to social media. With the trend of social media further eroding personal privacy, maybe this younger generation doesn't really care about that feeling of "freedom" that comes with driving or having your own car.

In the same issue of Road & Track with this 135is review, there is an article on the topic of the young generation not wanting to drive. It's an interesting read on how R&T tries to stimulate an 18 year old kid's interest with cars.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by NavyChop93

Very good! Yep, Chop is a nickname for Navy Supply Officers, specifically a submarine-based "Suppo"; surface ship nickname.

Thanks for the info. Heard the term before but did not know what it meant.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by NavyChop93

Very good! Yep, Chop is a nickname for Navy Supply Officers, specifically a submarine-based "Suppo"; surface ship nickname.

Thanks for the info. Heard the term before but was not sure what it meant.

[RallyRcrr]

I scanned an article I thought everyone would find interesting.

I found the comments about the 135 being the last of the pure BMW driving cars. From certain viewpoint I can agree with the author. I hope he's wrong though.

_Mark
Road & Track 135is Review

[RallyRcrr]

I scanned an article I thought everyone would find interesting. The author makes some pretty evocative comments about the 135 being the last of the pure BMW driving cars. From certain viewpoint I can agree with the author because I can see how wired up modern cars are becoming. I hope he's wrong though.

What viewpoint is that? It is the ruining of the experience of driving the car yourself. Take the Nissan GTR for example, as a celebrated sports car its a shame that it doesn't even come in a manual. The electronics do almost everything for the driver. Another example for BMWs is that I read they are already, or are going to implement soon, automated rev matching for manuals. Shameful.

Some will argue that novice drivers will appreciate such features, but that misses the point of the experience. Human beings will always make mistakes, but in trying to overcome those mistakes is where enjoyment and fun exist.

How bored will you be when your new 2031 BMW has input the track GPS data into the ECU, controls the steering, throttle, braking, hell even the radio, and puts in the perfect laptime all without you even looking up?

_Mark
Road & Track 135is Review

[PA135i]

Thanks for making it available here. Looks like we are all in a select group. I still love driving mine 5 years later.

[idrift4wd]

far from it. you can argue the gtr doesnt come in manual same way you can argue the 135is doesnt have an LSD.

auto rev matching has been in the business for awhile. i dont see why you wouldnt want it. the new market doesnt exactly tailor to the true car enthusiast. some cars will be to slow/fast/boring/cheap/expensive etc. im sure bmw isnt intentionally trying to make their cars worse or less fun to drive.

[litxus]

I don't think the author is wrong, it's all a preference of what you like. BMW is catering to the masses which just want an appliance, but if it is a premium appliance it is even better as it must be good The trend that I really do not like is that all cars like 3 series are getting bigger and bigger (1 is the old 3?), to the point where the old 7 series will be like new 3 in terms of size and weight. Not sure about you but 7 is a boat, how much fun will that be?

[RallyRcrr]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

far from it. you can argue the gtr doesnt come in manual same way you can argue the 135is doesnt have an LSD.

auto rev matching has been in the business for awhile. i dont see why you wouldnt want it. the new market doesnt exactly tailor to the true car enthusiast. some cars will be to slow/fast/boring/cheap/expensive etc. im sure bmw isnt intentionally trying to make their cars worse or less fun to drive.

Respectfully, I disagree. The LSD argument doesn't apply because I'm talking about systems that remove the driving feel. The automatic is one more layer that removes one from the driving experience. I wouldn't want rev matching for the same reason because it removes one more way to interact with the car. There is a certain satisfaction I get out of heel and toe'ing on my own. Technology can be a major benefit, but in this way it hinders. My argument is that once you add too many layers to the driving experience and then it ceases to become an experience...your experience.

I don't disagree that current and future cars will always be the result of what the majority wants. Its simple economics. The majority will ask for automatics, self driven cars, and other technology. But drivers...as part of society that would label themselves an automotive purist, I regretfully admit that we are slowly shrinking in numbers. We are not part of that majority. These "advances" will not cater to us and will slowly erode what we enjoy.

If I sound cataclismic, please excuse the dour tone. I just love driving, and the machines that make a great drive possible. I don't believe this will come any time soon. I just think it will be sad when/if it does go away. Nothing lasts forever.