N52 ESS supercharger kit

[skyscraper_g80]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

E92 is too big. My current car is already too big. I live on a mountain down a goat track off of a lane way.

N54 is cost effective power. S65 is power. N52 is best left standard, so far- this has potential to change that.

Flinchy and I share a viewpoint on this one.

* Still waiting to hear back from ESS *

+1. Keep us updated Ryan

[InControl]

Originally Posted by flinchy

Not so much

There will be less losses from inertia in the lightweight components

The weight of parts has nothing to do with how much boost the blower needs to make more power.. Or how much boost the blower makes, that's purely how fast it's spinning.. Belt driven and all.

I agree with everything you said, my comment is geared to the friction going on in the cylinder heads and around, when the parts are lighter and say 8 psi boost is generated for an M54 and N52, the lighter N52 should have natural weight advantage with the same boost when compared to M54, should be more effective, generating higher hp with less friction with the same boost. Now this would be the advantage of boosting N52 over M54. N52's lighter elements should also be seen as a benefit for boosting (in some ways) and not always a downside, as is almost always the case here (forums land).

[tuphdc]

Is there any point in upgrading the DISA manifold if you do the SC upgrade?

[cmcdonald]

Originally Posted by InControl

I agree with everything you said, my comment is geared to the friction going on in the cylinder heads and around, when the parts are lighter and say 8 psi boost is generated for an M54 and N52, the lighter N52 should have natural weight advantage with the same boost when compared to M54, should be more effective, generating higher hp with less friction with the same boost. Now this would be the advantage of boosting N52 over M54. N52's lighter elements should also be seen as a benefit for boosting (in some ways) and not always a downside, as is almost always the case here (forums land).

Lightweight components are good for efficiency and good to make a quick revving engine, but they are bad for boost. Lightweight comes at the penalty of reducing strength. With boost strength is what is important so you don't throw a rod through a block. With boost you are increasing the cylinder pressure by forcing more are and also more fuel in the cylinder. You need strong not light weight components to handle the pressure.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by cmcdonald

You need strong not light weight components to handle the pressure.

These two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Usually depends on how much you want to spend.

[InControl]

I hope that N52 proves to be solid enough to boost. According to ESSTUNING it is. That being the case, time will prove the success of the N52 and ESS blower. I have a feeling it's gonna be great in part because of lightweight

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by InControl

I agree with everything you said, my comment is geared to the friction going on in the cylinder heads and around, when the parts are lighter and say 8 psi boost is generated for an M54 and N52, the lighter N52 should have natural weight advantage with the same boost when compared to M54, should be more effective, generating higher hp with less friction with the same boost. Now this would be the advantage of boosting N52 over M54. N52's lighter elements should also be seen as a benefit for boosting (in some ways) and not always a downside, as is almost always the case here (forums land).

yeah, there will be less frictional/inertial losses in general

it's a fairly efficient motor, and adding boost only works with the efficiency...

not so much to do with the mass, but the overall design of the motor.. high volumetric efficiency, high compression, all that nice stuff. 1lb of boost on a given blower on the N52 will make more power than 1lb of boost on the M54, yes, you're correct.

i wouldn't expect the N52 to break before 400whp even... the N54 with the same PISTONS has seen 750 so far, and 650 ft-lb... to make 400whp, the N52 only needs 300 ft-lb at redline.

anyone who thinks 300 ft-lb will break the N52 is in la-la land.

cast iron crank, oil cooled hypereutetic alu pistons, alusil cylinder liners, tapered rods.. block is alu-mg.. absolutely nothing in the N52 is 'weak'

[InControl]

Originally Posted by flinchy

yeah, there will be less frictional/inertial losses in general

it's a fairly efficient motor, and adding boost only works with the efficiency...

not so much to do with the mass, but the overall design of the motor.. high volumetric efficiency, high compression, all that nice stuff. 1lb of boost on a given blower on the N52 will make more power than 1lb of boost on the M54, yes, you're correct.

i wouldn't expect the N52 to break before 400whp even... the N54 with the same PISTONS has seen 750 so far, and 650 ft-lb... to make 400whp, the N52 only needs 300 ft-lb at redline.

anyone who thinks 300 ft-lb will break the N52 is in la-la land.

cast iron crank, oil cooled hypereutetic alu pistons, alusil cylinder liners, tapered rods.. block is alu-mg.. absolutely nothing in the N52 is 'weak'

Efficiency is good engineering resulting in mass reduction.
Once this SC is proven to work well on the N52 it's likely to spam a couple higher boosted blowers with an inter cooler

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by InControl

Efficiency is good engineering resulting in mass reduction.
Once this SC is proven to work well on the N52 it's likely to spam a couple higher boosted blowers with an inter cooler

yeah given this is stage 1, i'd assume no intercooler, no oil cooler, maybe even 91 tune instead of 93

it should be SUPER easy to get a load more power out of it.. better fuel, intercooler, more timing.

[kobeballer96]

Quote from my email from Roman at ESS tuning.


"The kit will come with everything you need including software.
We will not release production dyno numbers until the kit is 100% finished.
This kit does not run FMIC as it is a low boost application.
All of our kits get a min of 30k miles of testing and are reliable.
DISA manifolds I will follow up on with you."

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

Quote from my email from Roman at ESS tuning.


"The kit will come with everything you need including software.
We will not release production dyno numbers until the kit is 100% finished.
This kit does not run FMIC as it is a low boost application.
All of our kits get a min of 30k miles of testing and are reliable.
DISA manifolds I will follow up on with you."

I definitely would add in a oil/coolant temp gauge or buy a V1/2 electronic steering wheel if I was someone purchasing this kit. Adding boost without temp monitoring with no additional oil/coolant cooling is just asking for trouble.

[tuphdc]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I definitely would add in a oil/coolant temp gauge or buy a V1/2 electronic steering wheel if I was someone purchasing this kit. Adding boost without temp monitoring with no additional oil/coolant cooling is just asking for trouble.

why is the electronic steering wheel necessary? Also, how I do know what steering wheel I have (128i sport pkg)?

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by tuphdc

why is the electronic steering wheel necessary? Also, how I do know what steering wheel I have (128i sport pkg)?

It has oil/coolant temp gauges built into it. I was just giving a couple options for monitoring the supercharger.

I assume you have the sport package wheel...

[kobeballer96]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

I definitely would add in a oil/coolant temp gauge or buy a V1/2 electronic steering wheel if I was someone purchasing this kit. Adding boost without temp monitoring with no additional oil/coolant cooling is just asking for trouble.

that's a given and a easy fix lol. no need to spend thousands for a steering wheel with a guage lol

[Freon]

I guess I see the uniqueness factor, but otherwise this looks like a bad idea. Trading over to a -35i of the same model year and mileage isn't really that expensive, plus you also get the upgraded brake package among possibly other things (US gets moonroof standard on the 135i over a 128i, etc.) Cost, performance/cost ratio, unknown vs known reliability, depreciation of the investment, poor low-end from a centrifugal blower, efficiency of belt-driven superchargers (lots of bypass air on part throttle, pumping losses), availability of more aftermarket parts and proven bolt-on gains, etc.

I'd at least take a real hard look at trading up before buying it.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

that's a given and a easy fix lol. no need to spend thousands for a steering wheel with a guage lol

That's why I suggested either option...

Wheel is hardly "thousands" either, and has a good deal more functionality than a single gauge. Plus it seamlessly matches the rest of the interior.

[631twentyeighteye]

Originally Posted by Freon

I guess I see the uniqueness factor, but otherwise this looks like a bad idea. Trading over to a -35i of the same model year and mileage isn't really that expensive, plus you also get the upgraded brake package among possibly other things (US gets moonroof standard on the 135i over a 128i, etc.) Cost, performance/cost ratio, unknown vs known reliability, depreciation of the investment, poor low-end from a centrifugal blower, efficiency of belt-driven superchargers (lots of bypass air on part throttle, pumping losses), availability of more aftermarket parts and proven bolt-on gains, etc.

I'd at least take a real hard look at trading up before buying it.

while i don't disagree that it would be financially smarter, some of us would prefer a supercharged 128 because it's lighter and the n52 with a supercharger would keep the NA power delivery. The main downside of the n54 is that it's 200 pounds heavier than the n52 and IMO the 1 series already weighs too much.

[FactorX81]

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

while i don't disagree that it would be financially smarter, some of us would prefer a supercharged 128 because it's lighter and the n52 with a supercharger would keep the NA power delivery. The main downside of the n54 is that it's 200 pounds heavier than the n52 and IMO the 1 series already weighs too much.

How does the n54 weigh 200lbs more? I thought the whole car weighed more not just the engine. Moonroof, HIDs brakes etc. I was looking and can't find this info do you have a source.

[631twentyeighteye]

I have a moonroof and my car is claimed to weigh 3227 or something like that, I don't recall exactly what it was. I mean i don't think the n54 alone is all the weight, but the beefed up transmission, bigger differential, beefier CV axles(assumed, I haven't confirmed this) etc all add weight. It's a fact that the n54 is made of heavier grade material in order to withstand boost pressures. There's a reason a stock block n54 can reach 700+hp with some new turbo's and FBO. I don't hate the n54 by any means, it's an epic engine from a tuning standpoint.

I wish i didn't have the sunroof/moonroof since it adds a ton of weight really high on the car. I mean it's lovely since my car is mostly a DD but from a performance standpoint sun/moonroofs are a negative.

FWIW another member that weighed his car for autox reasons came out to under 3200lbs. I think it was 3137 but again i can't remember the specifics. He has no moonroof/unnecessary gadgets or options and i believe Apex wheels that weighed a ton less than the stock wheels and tires.

[FactorX81]

Yeah looks like the n54 weighs about 75lb more and Edmunds lists the 135 as 120lb more so I think most of the other stuff might not weigh that much. While I would love to feel how one of these engines feels supercharged I'm not sure there would be much weight savings once the blower is added. I'm looking forward to the dynos.

[TheSt|G]

The weight difference is +/-200lbs, depending on options. Engine weight doesn't factor in the aforementioned beefed up components and other items like oil coolers and such.

[Freon]

That kit, especially after you add an intercooler (scary that it doesn't come with one, IMO, and will really limit how much power/boost you can add), will add a fair amount of weight, all in the front overhang. You may need to start adding other stuff like an uprated clutch, oil cooler, etc. to handle the power, too.

75lbs just for the engine N52 vs. N54 (including turbo, extra piping, intercooler, etc) seems reasonable. The rest is probably brakes, moonroof, probably a few minor things I'm forgetting. Factory oil cooler, perhaps radiator or fans are slightly larger?

I think the brakes are well worth it, especially with the added power.