M1 vs competition

[jmunro]

Originally Posted by BBK

The only competitors I see against the M1 would be:

* Porsche Cayman S
* Audi TTRS

That is it... Audi is faster, looks better. I just read a review in TG Australia which comared the Audi vs Cayman S, and they likes the Audi better. Was faster, gave more confidence, easier to drive etc. And I think it's cheaper too?

The other competition is the Cobalt SS.. LOL!

[BrokenVert]

I hope that the M1 doesnt come down with Camaro syndrome. Back in the 60s when the first Camaros came out GM purposely and knowingly made them slower than the Corvette, even though the Camaro had the better base platform.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

2011 Ford GT500 seems to be a monster. New aluminum block is 120 lb lighter..
New suspension so finally Ford Mustarg will handle.

I just saw this exact same car pulling out of the driveway at my gym. Female driver too. Definitely has a big presence, especially since they are so rare here. First one I've ever seen.

[grant]

Originally Posted by NYC6

I know plenty of guys who have tracked Mustangs before and have owned two myself over the years and never heard of tires getting gobbled up like that before. And there are thousands of lightly modded Pony cars winning lots of races all over the Country. We agree to disagree, To each his own.

I'm not trying to be difficult - just relaying my experience. I appreciate yours too.

I know some Mustangs had the IRS, but then this latest generation got rid of it (cost and weight reasons, I think). I think they need to bring it back on their top models (or at least make it an option). I would be very interested in the new GT (great motor) as a daily driver, if they improve the steering feel and address the rear suspension.

[LeoHammer]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

Cayman S is the best car Porsche makes, despite not getting their best engines.
I really hope M1 will be the best car BMW makes, kinda like most of us would prefer M3 over M5 currently.

I was referring to the lightweight Boxter Spyder car for 2011 ... the one that will come with a cloth legos-type roof and no inner door handles.

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by NYC6

I don't understand why some would dismiss certain cars from a discussion because of different technology. If a vehicle competes in a given market then its a contender.
Corvettes with their 1950's technology V8 Smallblocks and transverse mounted leaf springs and Mustangs with live axles are cars to be taken seriously when talking Performance cars. And it looks as if the Mustang is going to do very well and leave alot of snooty independent suspension afficinatos scratching their heads.

I agree when people disrespect the V8 in the vette, but in this day and age, there is no benefit and point in keeping an IRS off the mustang. At least put it in the Shelby for crap's sakes.

[grant]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

Cayman S is the best car Porsche makes, despite not getting their best engines.

Cayman is a nice car, but it doesn't hold a candle to a GT3, GT3RS or GT2.

[LeoHammer]

The mustang did have independent rear suspension at some point...the SVT Cobras did anyways... I had one, they went back to live axles because Mustang enthusiasts complained about the independent suspension...didn't feel like a mustang or something along those lines...thats what ford said to justify their step backwards to old technology when releasing the 2005 mustang.

[oasis3582]

Originally Posted by LeoHammer

The mustang did have independent rear suspension at some point...the SVT Cobras did anyways... I had one, they went back to live axles because Mustang enthusiasts complained about the independent suspension...didn't feel like a mustang or something along those lines...thats what ford said to justify their step backwards to old technology when releasing the 2005 mustang.

Haha, Mustang fans bitch when it does have IRS, and bitch when it doesn't.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by grant

Cayman is a nice car, but it doesn't hold a candle to a GT3, GT3RS or GT2.

How can you compare these models? A base Cayman S goes for $61,500.00 A GT3 for $112,000 GT3 RS for $132,000 and the new GT2 is not listed or available yet but it will also be high 6 figures!

The Cayman S you get allot of performance for the $$$$$$

You know i could by a brand new Cayman S and M3 and have 2 cars for the price of one! and both these cars will kick the shit out of a mustang and base corvette and nissan 370Z around a track

[amdmaxx]

We are talking reasonable prices here.

Originally Posted by grant

Cayman is a nice car, but it doesn't hold a candle to a GT3, GT3RS or GT2.

[LeoHammer]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

You know i could by a brand new Cayman S and M3 and have 2 cars for the price of one! and both these cars will kick the shit out of a mustang and base corvette and nissan 370Z around a track

I highly doubt they would beat a Z06 corvette around a track.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by grant

Cayman is a nice car, but it doesn't hold a candle to a GT3, GT3RS or GT2.

I think what he meant was that a mid-engine car like the Cayman, would be the best performing car in Porsche's lineup IF it ever got the best engines.

Which is true--look at the last Lightening Lap. The Cayman S was right there with the 911 tested....and was sporting the 911 plenty of HP.

Porsche will just never do it...the Cayman will never be set up to be better performing than the 911....just like Scott has told us the ///M1 is only getting 350 BHP, "to not tread on the M3's toes"

I think both Porsche and BMW should just make each car as good as it can be. But that is a pipe dream.

[footie]

The direct rivals to the M1 will be the Cayman S and TT-RS, these are the only two that offer the same kind of thrills with similar performance. The only fly in the ointment in my opinion is that both these cars look a million miles better and are more of the perspective of what a true sportscars should look like instead of a four seater coupe that is the 1 series Coupe.

After from these obvious shortcomings the car will be a real cracker to drive.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by LeoHammer

I highly doubt they would beat a Z06 corvette around a track.

I said base corvette.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

I said base corvette.

I could be wrong but I don't think it would beat a normal C6 either. I'm pretty sure a base C6 Z51 would slaughter a Cayman S at the ring.

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by BForbes

I could be wrong but I don't think it would beat a normal C6 either. I'm pretty sure a base C6 Z51 would slaughter a Cayman S at the ring.

Slaughter I think not! It would be a drivers Race advantage Porsche. The cayman S is quite fast and better balanced car. According to Internet resources the only confirmed time for the C6 Z51 was by GM with their own test driver and engineer! They used non stock safety equipment and achieved a non confirmed 7:59. The cayman has been tested numerous times by 2nd and 3rd party testers and achieved 8:04.

The Z06 showed 2 test results one from GM and one from Sport auto. Horst Von Suarma the Nordschleife master was 10 seconds slower than GM time. If you cut the difference in half that makes these cars equal. So definitely not a slaughter but a drivers race.

[AlBel1214]

Originally Posted by Trier Germany

Slaughter I think not! It would be a drivers Race advantage Porsche. The cayman S is quite fast and better balanced car. According to Internet resources the only confirmed time for the C6 Z51 was by GM with their own test driver and engineer! They used non stock safety equipment and achieved a non confirmed 7:59. The cayman has been tested numerous times by 2nd and 3rd party testers and achieved 8:04.

The Z06 showed 2 test results one from GM and one from Sport auto. Horst Von Suarma the Nordschleife master was 10 seconds slower than GM time. If you cut the difference in half that makes these cars equal. So definitely not a slaughter but a drivers race.

I think he can say slaughter since your initial comment was an M3 and cayman S would "kick the sh*t" out of a stock c6...

But now all of a sudden it is a "drivers race"... hmm

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by BForbes

I could be wrong but I don't think it would beat a normal C6 either. I'm pretty sure a base C6 Z51 would slaughter a Cayman S at the ring.

Some people just look at certain cars with rose colored glasses and ignore facts.

Nurburgring Official Times-
C6 Corvette(LS2) 7:59
Cayman S-8:16

8:04.8 is a typo, correct time is 8:10.04

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by NYC6

Some people just look at certain cars with rose colored glasses and ignore facts.

Nurburgring Official Times-
C6 Corvette(LS2) 7:59
Cayman S-8:16

8:04.8 is a typo, correct time is 8:10.04

Wow, and that 7:59 was with the LS2 motor?!?! I would only imagine the LS3 doing a little better.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by BForbes

Wow, and that 7:59 was with the LS2 motor?!?! I would only imagine the LS3 doing a little better.

And.....I dont think they tested(officially) a GS yet. With the LS3, Z06 brakes and tires(325/275) will likely run seconds quicker.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by NYC6

And.....I dont think they tested(officially) a GS yet. With the LS3, Z06 brakes and tires(325/275) will likely run seconds quicker.

Oh without a doubt man. But we're confined to keeping the debate to "base" Corvettes. No problems with that. Nobody messes with the performance of the General's vette.I've learned that the hard way over the years. Enough said.