Arkansas 1m wreck

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Redadair

This is very sad.. The underlying story here is Always wear Seat Belts, and Keep the 1M in MDM mode at least on the street!!

Live safe.

This is really sad...most of us are about the same age and have kids too. The car is takes a lot of concentration and discipline on the edge. You saw it yourself with the Stig, losing it on Top Gear and Tiff Nedell saying he was surprised by it. I also lost it on an autocross a couple of times. I came out of a turn, pointed the car straight ahead and floored it in second gear. Any little undulation or sand on the road and it went sideways on me and next thing I know I'm going round. I'm not the Stig but also not a newbie. I lost my throttle discipline for an instant and a little bit a of dirt on the road and I was done! AW1M also lost control of his and put it on its side or roof and he drives GT3s and Boxers. It's this character that makes the car exciting but it has surpassed 1990s supercar speeds in a small, short wheelbased chassis.

I was just reading up on best cars of the 90s and Dodge Viper went 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, that's a bit slower than the 1M, yet the Viper had much more rubber and a long chassis.

I absolutely agree with M3kerry, the car doesn't need more power and you have to respect this car more than others. These cars are getting faster every day, easily pushing 4 second 0-60 times and in some cases 3 seconds, yet braking distances are still close to the same.

That is the fundamental problem with what is happening with the horsepower wars, they are making more power so that you can make heavy cars sooooo fast but even with the crazy ceramic brakes, it still takes almost the same distance to stop and there has been no improvement on human reflexes. To make matters worse, they are making launch control, etc that any idiot can effect a super-fast launch that the car is controlling which means you can go super fast while being "behind" the car mentally.

And all of this doesn't even account for road imperfections, dirt, potholes, tire condition etc.

Anyway, I'm so sorry for Stormtrooper's family and pass my sincere condolences. I also have met some of you and wish you safe 1M fun and hopefully this sad event can make us a bit safer, something good can come of this.

Finally, I didn't see anywhere about not having the seat belt on in the news so I'm not sure where that came from. I really find it hard to believe that he would've been driving fast without a seat belt unless he forgot. I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt unless proven factually. I had a couple of incidents where I was wearing a long jacket in winter and the material got caught when putting the seatbelt on. I thought it was on, then all of a sudden it came out and I realized what happened. Another time when I was at an autocross many years ago, I jumped out of the car between runs to check tire pressure quickly before the next run. I jumped back in and took off. At the first left turn, I was in the passenger seat spinning around. I forgot my seatbelt. Again, I really find it incredible that he would not have put it on purpose and depending on the severity of the crash, it might not even have mattered. Stay safe guys!

[MrRoboto]

I know this is off topic but I did a bit more research. I believe there were ~36,000 people killed on US highways in 2012 which I find mind boggling. To put it in perspective, there were ~55,000 American casualties during the entire Vietnam war.

[TunedM2C]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

His death marked the 455th on Arkansas roads so far in 2013...dear lord, that's a lot of fatalities.

Here in Illinois we get close to 1000 every year. RIP

[Pete_vB]

Forty years from now people will look back on the last century in automotive history the same way we look back at the civil war surgery- appalled that such atrocity was accepted and considered "normal". During desert storm, the life expectancy of US pilots actually went up briefly, because pilots were fighting a war overseas rather than driving their sports cars back home.

Technology will eventually solve the problem, however that will mean that the risks we think of as normal today will be seen as totally unacceptable. "What, you drive yourself?" will be today's "What, you take traction control off on the street?".

Whether or not I accept and look forward to this future depends on my mood and the day. Most days I'm resistant, or at least feel ambivalent. Today, however, with a daughter missing her father for Christmas, it can't come soon enough.

[m3kerry]

Robert and i were talking the other day about the 1m and how unforgiving it is and i said i would sell mine to get a more forgiving car.

Truth is i will keep it to sell it later on but i don't enjoy this car and have a healthy fear of it.

I don't know that anyone has posted or developed a setup that is stable and can put power down.

I have da koni's on the car and have gone through 3 different front swaybars while developing the car and gave up.

Matt murray and a few others have spent time tuning and i would interested in hearing a go to base setup. The mass produced e36 m 3 has one and i followed a template for developing my last one that produced a monster car before, foolishly, selling it.

The 1m have proven more than my limited time and money could do.

Dinian could be the answer. I read about his turn key solution the other day.

Anyway, sad stuff and we all can learn something from this.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by m3kerry

Robert and i were talking the other day about the 1m and how unforgiving it is and i said i would sell mine to get a more forgiving car.

Truth is i will keep it to sell it later on but i don't enjoy this car and have a healthy fear of it.

I don't know that anyone has posted or developed a setup that is stable and can put power down.

I have da koni's on the car and have gone through 3 different front swaybars while developing the car and gave up.

Matt murray and a few others have spent time tuning and i would interested in hearing a go to base setup. The mass produced e36 m 3 has one and i followed a template for developing my last one that produced a monster car before, foolishly, selling it.

The 1m have proven more than my limited time and money could do.

Dinian could be the answer. I read about his turn key solution the other day.

Anyway, sad stuff and we all can learn something from this.

Turn-key, no. But good dampers, serious rubber, camber plates/alignment, and real aero (among other things) have make a big difference on my car.

EDIT: And the car is a pussycat compared to Porsches of yore!

Neil

[Redadair]

I have total Respect for the 1M but I don't fear the car at all.

The point of any car with big enough torque to break the rear loose at almost any given moment is in how you use it. That's why I have always said Don't drive the car around on the street with the TC turned all the way off. I am spending this winter deciding if I want a local Coder friend of mine to install the Euro MDM mode that allows a bit more slip before calling up the nanny. I find even in MDM mode with the PS2's on the car that in first and second my traction light is on more than I like.....

BUT I don't turn off MDM on my favorite freeway on ramp or any canyon drive around me because it only take one miscalculation between your brain and the side of the road to be a statistic.

[m3kerry]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Turn-key, no. But good dampers, serious rubber, camber plates/alignment, and real aero (among other things) have make a big difference on my car.

Neil

Neil we need to get some of the setups out here in a thread.

That body of work needs to be made public.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by m3kerry

Neil we need to get some of the setups out here in a thread.

That body of work needs to be made public.

Maybe when I'm no longer under warranty

Neil

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Redadair

I have total Respect for the 1M but I don't fear the car at all.

I respect it a lot, but I'm comfortable, at least at under 60 mph. It needs great tires, but with them I'll get it moving around often in most conditions. I'm one of those 99% DSC off morons with a death wish. But I won't push the stock setup on fast sweepers, especially with bumps.

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

And the car is a pussycat compared to Porsches of yore!

That's for damn sure. Those things with real power- I will absolutely not push outside of very controlled conditions. Stepping out of that you realize what a pussycat the 1M is in comparison.

[redux]

Originally Posted by m3kerry

I don't know that anyone has posted or developed a setup that is stable and can put power down.

I have da koni's on the car and have gone through 3 different front swaybars while developing the car and gave up.

Matt murray and a few others have spent time tuning and i would interested in hearing a go to base setup. The mass produced e36 m 3 has one and i followed a template for developing my last one that produced a monster car before, foolishly, selling it.

I've been working on finding a away to put the power down for about two years. I've gotten to point of running 295 sized tires out back, no rear sway bar, and a few other fairly major modifications. It puts the power down far better than it did stock, but it's still a bit tricky at times. The power delivery of N54 is probably the main culprit to exacerbating said handling ills. If that engine stays in my car, I have a feeling that my 1M will remain similar to an a old Porsche; in that I'll never be able to completely trust it. But, that sort of adds to the fun.

[m3kerry]

I stopped development on the car and found a co-drive in a fully developed brz.

Sad day to give up but i tried to find a co-driver this year for the car and never found one.

I dont even daily drive the car anymore. I have switched back to the dinan stage 2 335 for a daily and get the 1m out on warm days but never really push the thing at this point.

Kind of useless to own it at this point but i ED d the car with my mom and spent 3 weeks over there and just can sell it because of that.

[3002 tii]

Never understood why people feel the need to turn off traction. It's like they've seen 1 too many episodes of Top Gear and they all think they're the Stig. You gotta be driving like a real A-hole to even benefit from not having TC kick in and public streets is NOT the place to be driving like this.

[TXmtrhed]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Never understood why people feel the need to turn off traction. It's like they've seen 1 too many episodes of Top Gear and they all think they're the Stig. You gotta be driving like a real A-hole to even benefit from not having TC kick in and public streets is NOT the place to be driving like this.

My thoughts exactly!

[tuco44]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Never understood why people feel the need to turn off traction. It's like they've seen 1 too many episodes of Top Gear and they all think they're the Stig. You gotta be driving like a real A-hole to even benefit from not having TC kick in and public streets is NOT the place to be driving like this.

+1 for sure.

[Redadair]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Never understood why people feel the need to turn off traction. It's like they've seen 1 too many episodes of Top Gear and they all think they're the Stig. You gotta be driving like a real A-hole to even benefit from not having TC kick in and public streets is NOT the place to be driving like this.

I've been saying this ever since we all got our cars and people were talking like it was the only way to drive these cars.

Look, if your not a Professional Race car driver don't act like it. I can't believe all these people thinking they are going to tune the car to act differently. maybe you should look at tuning your brain to act differently!!

Worse yet, they add 60 hp and 100 lbs of torque and wonder why the back end comes out quicker. WTF man!!!! Do you honestly think you can out tune the BMW M group?

Don't over drive the car.. A man has got to know his limitations.

[Redadair]

Sorry, just got to vent sometimes.

[timbo_3101]

Sad outcome for the 1M driver

Originally Posted by m3kerry

Sad day to give up but i tried to find a co-driver this year for the car and never found one.

I dont even daily drive the car anymore. I have switched back to the dinan stage 2 335 for a daily and get the 1m out on warm days but never really push the thing at this point.

Kind of useless to own it at this point but i ED d the car with my mom and spent 3 weeks over there and just can sell it because of that.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on how unforgiving the 1M is at the limit; I also feel that this vehicle already significantly disadvantaged compared to the E9x M3 racers (club level). However, if you were to share your thoughts then I would be most appreciative

Originally Posted by Redadair

I've been saying this ever since we all got our cars and people were talking like it was the only way to drive these cars.

Look, if your not a Professional Race car driver don't act like it. I can't believe all these people thinking they are going to tune the car to act differently. maybe you should look at tuning your brain to act differently!!

Worse yet, they add 60 hp and 100 lbs of torque and wonder why the back end comes out quicker. WTF man!!!! Do you honestly think you can out tune the BMW M group?

I tend to agree. Every time I put the helmet on, I having nothing but fear for my own car

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

His death marked the 455th on Arkansas roads so far in 2013...dear lord, that's a lot of fatalities.

approx 1450 this year in Texas... the road signs keep a death toll.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/08/21/t...death-numbers/






RIP Robert Culpepper... and my condolences to his family.

Whether or not Traction control was on in the car is not info that we know, however I will also get on my soapbox at this time and also agree that driving a 1M on the street with the traction control off is just not a good decision for one's daily commute. I continue to recommend that people use traction control to LEARN how they are exceeding the available traction. The simple fact is that TOP drivers should be able to lap VERY QUICKLY even with MDM on, if they are focusing on being smooth and mindful of slip angles. I feel that MDM is a VERY valuable tool for all drivers, especially novice and intermediate drivers on track even. Sure... there are times one will turn it off.. but there's no shame in having MDM on.

[Redadair]

As M3 Adjuster said and I can't tell you how important this is....

Don't Overdrive your car on the road or track. Learn how to drive smooth, without stepping the back out. Start out slow then build speed as you learn.

What does this mean. For an example watch a road race and notice how many cars come out of a corner sideways??? They don't unless the driver has just misjudged the corner and slid, hopefully catching the car before it goes around.

Example #2. Watch Top Gear. Notice how Jeremy Clarkson goes around a corner, back end out burning the tires off the car. Then watch the Stig go around the track, do you notice the car coming out of the corners sideways? No. Sideways isn't faster. Let me say this again, Sideways isn't faster... It may look cool and impress your friends but it isn't how you drive a car.

If you think the 1M is a fast and hard to control car there are a few thing going on here. First one is you are Over Driving the car for the condition of a corner. Plan and simple.. It's not the cars fault it's yours. Every time It's your fault. Try driving a car with say 500 + hp and see if you don't get a worst response when you punch if out of a corner.

Don't drive like Jeremy Clarkson learn how to drive more like the stig..

[Pete_vB]

This is not the thread to take this up, so I'll keep this brief. If you don't feel comfortable taking TC off then Don't unless under totally controlled conditions. If you do feel comfortable taking TC off then guard against overconfidence. Everyone above who says they shouldn't be taking TC off is correct- they shouldn't. Many of the people who do take TC off also probably shouldn't.

I will say is that if you don't take TC off under controlled conditions you're experiencing only half of what the 1M has to offer. True sideways is rarely faster, but it's often more fun, and given the correct controlled conditions I'd recommend to anyone that want to improve their driving to learn it both for the experience and so that you have the skill to recover if you ever find yourself in the situation accidentally. We teach it at autocross schools for this reason, and I don't consider anyone not comfortable (and nearly always faster) with TC off on an autocross to be an advanced driver.

I do place a fair bit of blame BMW for making the worst tuned traction control in the business- I very rarely feel constrained by modern Porsche traction control, for example.

Edit: for clarity I should note that in 44k miles I have never spun the 1M, even at wet autocrosses. But my friend (who won the Porsche National Autocross, so knows his way around) did on one of the first times he was in the car, so clearly it will bite even the best if uninitiated. I also occasionally get paid to drive, only mentioned to clarify that most people "should not try this at home".

[Redadair]

"I'd recommend to anyone that want to improve their driving to learn it both for the experience and so that you have the skill to recover if you ever find yourself in the situation accidentally. We teach it at autocross schools for this reason"

I couldn't agree more, just not on the street. Even if you go to an open Large Parking lot, like the ones used for Auto Cross on the weekends, but not on the streets.

Growing up in a winter climate and before front wheel drive cars gave most of us the chance to drive to say a store parking lots and drive sideways for as long as we could. and you are right if you loose the back end of the car on the Auto Cross course usually the only thing hurt is your pride and a few rubber cones. Big difference from the freeway on ramp or a canyon road.