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      02-01-2010, 05:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Single twin scroll turbo..
Thats the std N55.

The M version will more than likely be a bi turboed version of the N55.
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      02-01-2010, 05:02 PM   #24
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Mystery Solved

The plan for the M1 is shelved because they can't find a fuel pump that works...oops
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      02-01-2010, 05:04 PM   #25
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They are consulting Toyota for QA?
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      02-01-2010, 06:13 PM   #26
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Too early to say but I have a feeling the Toyota recall is blown out of proportion and there may be some political agenda behind the scene. When there's the last time there's a congressional hearing on recall? Congress won't be able to do any work if it has to weight in on every GM recall.
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      02-01-2010, 09:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Too early to say but I have a feeling the Toyota recall is blown out of proportion and there may be some political agenda behind the scene. When there's the last time there's a congressional hearing on recall? Congress won't be able to do any work if it has to weight in on every GM recall.

What makes you think Congress works now?
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      02-02-2010, 09:56 AM   #28
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The M1 on based on the actuel generation E8X, though only available as Coupé will be the first and the last 1 Series and M1 to have an I6, so as the M3 is the first and last M3 to have V8. The next generation 1 Series and M1 F20 will have I4 so as the next generation 3 Series and M3 F30 will have I6. And M1 Concept was not called simply M1 but M1 Hommage.
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      02-02-2010, 02:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The M1 on based on the actuel generation E8X, though only available as Coupé will be the first and the last 1 Series and M1 to have an I6, so as the M3 is the first and last M3 to have V8. The next generation 1 Series and M1 F20 will have I4 so as the next generation 3 Series and M3 F30 will have I6. And M1 Concept was not called simply M1 but M1 Hommage.
IDK if I'd speculate the current M3 will be the "last" to have a V8 yet. I personally think the EPA regs of requiring something like 40 mpg on average in each manufacturers fleet by 2016 (or is it 2020) is a bit unrealistic.
Having a bunch of hybrids, electric cars and small turbocharged I4's in cars that keep getting heavier due to constant increase in size and safety requirements too is getting WAY too PC and big government.
Are we all expected to drive around in steel cages with battery power, or super expensive all aluminum or titanium cages in the next 10-15 years?

I'd hope the goal would be to increase mpg and advance technology but to a point of sanity and realistic expectations.

I think people in the 70's with the gas crisis and the regulations that all but dissolved large V8's in the late 70's and into the 80's, thought the same thing.
But look what happened in the mid 90's to 2000's. We went back to bigger engines, bigger power all over again.

After a decade or so of driving hybrids, electric cars and 200 hp 3300+ lbs cars, people will demand and want power again.
Currently 300 hp in a family sedan/car is "normal" but that may drop to 200 again by 2015-2020
My guess though by 2025, 350-400 hp will be "normal" again with V8's once again making a comeback.
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      02-02-2010, 07:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
IDK if I'd speculate the current M3 will be the "last" to have a V8 yet. I personally think the EPA regs of requiring something like 40 mpg on average in each manufacturers fleet by 2016 (or is it 2020) is a bit unrealistic.
Having a bunch of hybrids, electric cars and small turbocharged I4's in cars that keep getting heavier due to constant increase in size and safety requirements too is getting WAY too PC and big government.
Are we all expected to drive around in steel cages with battery power, or super expensive all aluminum or titanium cages in the next 10-15 years?

I'd hope the goal would be to increase mpg and advance technology but to a point of sanity and realistic expectations.

I think people in the 70's with the gas crisis and the regulations that all but dissolved large V8's in the late 70's and into the 80's, thought the same thing.
But look what happened in the mid 90's to 2000's. We went back to bigger engines, bigger power all over again.

After a decade or so of driving hybrids, electric cars and 200 hp 3300+ lbs cars, people will demand and want power again.
Currently 300 hp in a family sedan/car is "normal" but that may drop to 200 again by 2015-2020
My guess though by 2025, 350-400 hp will be "normal" again with V8's once again making a comeback.
No one can predict the future, and you do have a point. However, don't forget today's V8s are more powerful than they were and use less fuel. It is a demand thing, and really, while improvement of safety and comfort has lead to increase in weight of today's cars which is compensate by the efficiencies of today's engine, I cannot see when the power of a road car is going to be much relevance in the future as technology improves.

I think electric cars is going to be the next phase and we will see the fading (it will take some years) of internal combustion engine, and by 2025, 350-400hp electric engine might not necessarily be normal, but the same power/weight ratio would be achieved with cars that would be using a much more efficient engine/motor.

That's why I think the turbo I4 and turbo I6 would be a good direction. At the end of the day, a M car is about performance on a race track, and I really don't care how BMW gets it there - and it would be better if it is able to deliver in a package which reduce consumption.
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      02-02-2010, 07:48 PM   #31
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Having a bunch of hybrids, electric cars and small turbocharged I4's in cars that keep getting heavier due to constant increase in size and safety requirements too is getting WAY too PC and big government.
Ding Ding Ding! How about letting supply and demand decide what cars and engines are available? That's a novel concept. I'm not saying that I encourage inefficient cars over efficient ones, but at no point will I ever want to drive a hybrid in their current power outputs. Anyway, that's a discussion for another day.
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      02-03-2010, 01:26 AM   #32
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Can we close this pointless thread...?
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      02-07-2010, 09:31 AM   #33
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Can we close this pointless thread...?
Why, because you think it's pointless, or because you want it closed for personal reasons? Either way, not a valid reason.
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      02-07-2010, 12:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The M1 on based on the actuel generation E8X, though only available as Coupé will be the first and the last 1 Series and M1 to have an I6, so as the M3 is the first and last M3 to have V8. The next generation 1 Series and M1 F20 will have I4 so as the next generation 3 Series and M3 F30 will have I6. And M1 Concept was not called simply M1 but M1 Hommage.
I agree with this. I been reading this in more articles. And the reality is technology is advancing with smaller engines performing much higher. Now you have v8 with the power of an old v10 and that's a great improvement.
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      02-07-2010, 01:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Why, because you think it's pointless, or because you want it closed for personal reasons? Either way, not a valid reason.

No, because the topic is not valid...
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      02-07-2010, 05:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIPSI View Post
Per the March issue of Motor Trend;

"The Z4 is soon slated to get BMW's new gas direct-injection turbocharged four M Engine designed for the M version of the
1 Series, named 1M."

Guess we"ll see...
Don't see how it's not valid as it is in fact what Motor Trend has reported. I know your going to tell us you know more than they do...

Fine, thus is the making of a automobile forum discussion thread...
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      02-07-2010, 11:13 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIPSI View Post
Don't see how it's not valid as it is in fact what Motor Trend has reported. I know your going to tell us you know more than they do...

Fine, thus is the making of a automobile forum discussion thread...
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      02-07-2010, 11:36 PM   #38
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Numb3rs. Why do you need to have a problem with everything? If you dont like the thread dont post, its simple.

Ohh and btw, this post is taking the thread off topic. Just incase you couldnt tell when that event actually occurs.
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      02-08-2010, 12:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Why, because you think it's pointless, or because you want it closed for personal reasons? Either way, not a valid reason.
The thread was about what Motortrend had said, and which is partially correct as the 4T is going to the new generation M1, and not the E8x M car. The M1 based on current model will be a TT6.

These are facts that has already come to light, so no point discussing what you want in this thread. There is another thread dedicated the to M1 engine elsewhere which would be more appropriate for the discussion.
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      02-08-2010, 06:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Numb3rs. Why do you need to have a problem with everything? If you dont like the thread dont post, its simple.

Ohh and btw, this post is taking the thread off topic. Just incase you couldnt tell when that event actually occurs.

Bro, I suggested that we have the thread closed, because it doesn't suit any purpose. It's illogical to keep discussing a fact that we know isn't true.

Other things need to be discussed, this thread is fostering a lie. So the responsible thing to do, is simply close it. Now it's turned into a troll thread about nothing...

Thus, proving my point!



/close thread plz.
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      02-08-2010, 07:36 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
No one can predict the future, and you do have a point. However, don't forget today's V8s are more powerful than they were and use less fuel. It is a demand thing, and really, while improvement of safety and comfort has lead to increase in weight of today's cars which is compensate by the efficiencies of today's engine, I cannot see when the power of a road car is going to be much relevance in the future as technology improves.

I think electric cars is going to be the next phase and we will see the fading (it will take some years) of internal combustion engine, and by 2025, 350-400hp electric engine might not necessarily be normal, but the same power/weight ratio would be achieved with cars that would be using a much more efficient engine/motor.

That's why I think the turbo I4 and turbo I6 would be a good direction. At the end of the day, a M car is about performance on a race track, and I really don't care how BMW gets it there - and it would be better if it is able to deliver in a package which reduce consumption.
The issue with the IC world is that we ABSOLUTELY are constrained by Carnot when it comes to efficiency. This limits efficiency a fair amount, and gives a cap, in reality, to how well one can do. At the same time, processes to recover heat/waste energy and re-enter it into the systems (other than turbos) just aren't coming along.

At the same time, there is finite energy in a gallon of fuel, and the more power you make, the more fuel you use, there is no escaping that reality. While some things benefit efficiency by minimizing losses, and sometimes games can be played with power, torque curves and gearing, but this is definitely not a one size fits all proposition.

At the end of the day, one has to bust carnot, either by using other cycles, deriving energy by other systems not constrained, or tuning vehicles to all run like a prius. None of the options that get the efficiency one wants meet the driving dynamics consistent with BMW, let alone ///M.

I see the 1970s happening again, but without the benefit of "simple" technology insertions to bump power and economy back up.

As the world is brought up, everyone on top gets to drop down closer to third world status...
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