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      12-07-2009, 11:38 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavelitto View Post
The tech guy at wheel center actually showed my that the thread on the inside of rear tyres is gone- is it do do with the negative camber on the back?
Looks like it.

BMW sets their factory spec alignment to basically 0* front camber and ~-1.XX* rear. So your rears should wear on the inside more than the fronts if you are using factory spec.

From my experience, you can run up to -2*F and still have great tire life.
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      12-07-2009, 11:39 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
^^^Yeah I know about that..it is what I was referring to when I wrote what I wrote....In hindsight I just think JT was referring to bedding in track pads(?)...when he gets a chance I am sure he will clarify
Yes I was thinking of track pads, which should only be bedded in on a racetrack.
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      12-12-2009, 11:09 AM   #135
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Any ideas why my car now pulls to the left? As opposed to the right before the adjustments?
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      12-12-2009, 12:17 PM   #136
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Without knowing your tire and road condition, it's hard to say. Did your alignment tech rotate or swap the tire left to right(dismount required for directional tires) to see if it makes any improments?
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      12-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #137
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The tires were not swapped. They are stock rft but the backs are completely gone. pretty much no thread left on the inside of tires and in general the 1.8 mm marker was hit about 1 mm ago I still need to use them for 5 days until I put my winter wheels (17'') I guess I will see after changing for winters if the problem persists. The thing is that I have to drive 750 miles on tuesday to my hometown where I will change the wheels and I'm kind of worried to drive the car that slightly pulls to the left now.
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      12-13-2009, 12:26 AM   #138
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J Tyler,

would there be any reason that the stock 135i/135i performance brake upgrades could not work on a 128i? Let's say even with the same 18 wheels. Is it a balance issue?

Thinking about the performance upgrade but the 128 seems to get smaller rear brakes even on the upgrade...Thanks for the help.
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      12-13-2009, 10:24 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabwind51 View Post
J Tyler,

would there be any reason that the stock 135i/135i performance brake upgrades could not work on a 128i? Let's say even with the same 18 wheels. Is it a balance issue?

Thinking about the performance upgrade but the 128 seems to get smaller rear brakes even on the upgrade...Thanks for the help.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does the "performance brake upgrade" entail for the 128i? Is it just the front & rear calipers from the 135i? Also, how much does it cost?
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      12-14-2009, 08:56 AM   #140
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Experts: I am curious to know if you agree or disagree with my response to a recent thread about a magazine's recent article about stock suspension and wheels outperforming BMW Performance Suspension and Wheels on the track.

Here is the post about the article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Most of you know Evo magazine, a very credible UK car publication. Well, if you have been following the back pages over the last few months, the staffers took on a 135i as one of their long term fleet vehicles. They have made several mods month-over-month, starting with the wheels (opted for the BMW performance rims), which funny enough with tires only resulted in...1/2lb weight loss per corner (although the tires they were replacing were almost shot, so likely a lb or so lighter than when new).

They just installed the BMW Performance Suspension and have a quick 1/2 pager commentary. When they got the car, in fully stock form they recorded several laps (at Bedford Autodrome), along with an M3. Their quest is to build this car to eclipse the stock M3s time. So they installed the suspension, but very suprisingly their lap time had increased. They too were puzzled and couldn't attribute it to anything in particular (weather conditions in both tries were silimar). Stock time was 1:28.7 vs 1:29.4 with the BMW PS and wheels. Both new and old tires were RFTs, the new ones being Dunlop SP Sport 01 rather than the stock Bridgestones RE050As. The stock M3's time they are gunning to beat is 1:25.9

They are quite happy with the suspension per se, so the disappointing track time is not meant to bash it. In fact they said that, quote: "feels really good now, less fuzzy, more poised." They proceed to say the car felt more stable, decisive, biddable, mostly because of noticeably less roll.

So to conclude, staff wrote: "There are 2 certainties: After spending GBP 5,000 on wheels and suspension, we have done nothing to improve the car's lap time. But we have improved the feel of the car on road and on track, wheel control is better and the car drives more positively."

By next month they would have added the BMW Power Pack, so stay tuned.
And my response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by syenisch View Post
I would be interested to see the comparison between the OEM M Sport suspension and the Performance Suspension on a nonRFT tire such as PS2s or Star Specs. I think it might tell a different story. The softer OEM M Sport suspension might be more suitable for the hard sidewalls of the RFTs. Perhaps adding stiffer suspension removes the "compliance" needed for the RFTs to work optimally. I suspect Performance Suspension on nonRFTs would outperform OEM M Sport suspension on nonRFTs. That is only my opinion though.

Edit: The RFTs already have notoriously stiff sidewalls. I believe the Performance Wheels are larger in diameter. Now you've got a shorter (and more importantly stiffer) sidewall than before with stiffer suspension and no better rubber. The weak link is the tires, and you've made them WORSE with the suspension and wheel change. I maintain my belief that if you put on better rubber the car with Performance Suspension and Wheels wins.
What are your thoughts? I planning on getting the BMW Performance Suspension so that I can reduce body roll, improve turn in, gain a little negative camber, maintain comfort on the street, and stay OEM in the process.
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      12-14-2009, 11:49 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Tyler View Post
You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does the "performance brake upgrade" entail for the 128i? Is it just the front & rear calipers from the 135i? Also, how much does it cost?
From what I gather, it is the stock 135i front pads painted yellow with slotted/drilled front rotors but the back is just a 1 piston (135i has 2 piston rear) that appears very similar to stock 128i rear brakes.

People mentioned brake bias or brake hub offset that could be different. Wondering if the 2 piston rear could work...basically similar car..?

thread was here with photos: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303409
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      12-14-2009, 06:27 PM   #142
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J Tyler,
I've never tracked or auto crossed in my life and would like to get involved in these type of events. What would be my best place to start? Can I use a stock car?
Thanks in Advance.
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      12-14-2009, 08:00 PM   #143
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I'm not J Tyler, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


...well not really, but I've been doing these types of events for nearly ten years now, and I would recommend the experience highly. I started with a BMW Club event, even though I had an Audi at the time. I've since done events with BMW, Audi, Porsche, Mini, and independent clubs, and have instructed for most of them as well.

You can absolutely track a bone stock car, you'll be amazed at how capable the car is once you learn some basic skills. I would recommend going to the BMWCCA.org, finding your local chapter, and going to an event just to check it out. If you feel intimidated, you can always go just to check it out and see what it's like. You shouldn't be anxious though, because everyone's a n00b at some point, and the clubs all have easy-entry beginner classes that focus on teaching the basics of proper car control. Generally, at that level , you will do structured exercises to teach some concepts before being "let out" on the track. Of course, as a beginner, you will have an instructor with you at all times, helping you learn. I would caution you against doing any track events with an organization that does NOT require an instructor to be in your car 100% of the time during lapping as a beginner. BMW/Audi/etc clubs will not allow that anyway, but you may find some independents that are slightly more...how shall I say..."careless".

But anyway - you will have a blast. Check out the BMWCCA.org website and read up, I'm sure there are events in your area. Before you know it, you'll be a junkie like the rest of us...
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      12-14-2009, 10:19 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syenisch View Post
Experts: I am curious to know if you agree or disagree with my response to a recent thread about a magazine's recent article about stock suspension and wheels outperforming BMW Performance Suspension and Wheels on the track.

Here is the post about the article:


And my response:


What are your thoughts? I planning on getting the BMW Performance Suspension so that I can reduce body roll, improve turn in, gain a little negative camber, maintain comfort on the street, and stay OEM in the process.
I think your response is legitimate -- the harder RFT's probably do better on the softer suspension; but I bet the effect is pretty small. However, I think there are more variables at play that are important, i.e., the lap time difference could easily come from the difference in tire ability (they used two different tires for the two tests), and difference in alignment (I assume the Performance Suspension lowers the car and results in less negative front camber in roll).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabwind51 View Post
From what I gather, it is the stock 135i front pads painted yellow with slotted/drilled front rotors but the back is just a 1 piston (135i has 2 piston rear) that appears very similar to stock 128i rear brakes.

People mentioned brake bias or brake hub offset that could be different. Wondering if the 2 piston rear could work...basically similar car..?

thread was here with photos: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303409
Ok, in that case, I don't think the brake bias is something you need to worry about. BMW (and most manufacturers nowadays as well) set their cars up with too much mechanical rear bias anyway -- during hard on-track driving, I can feel the factory ABS working on the rears during corner entry as I trail off the brakes. During straight-line threshold braking, ABS is being used on all 4 tires. (If you disconnect ABS in the fusebox, you will find that the rear tires lock quite easily - when I did this it was obvious how much rear bias was built into the system!)

The reason manufacturers are doing this is to maximize braking performance in snow/rain/low-grip. Think about it - if they set the mechanical brake bias to be perfect for dry pavement when the car can stop really hard and transfer a lot of weight off the rears onto the fronts, they would need to set it to something like 70%F/30%R. If that car ever has to do an emergency stop in the snow, it will have way too much front bias (because grip is low in the snow, the car may only get to, say, 60/40 front/rear weight distribution). So they set the mechanical bias to ~60F/40R and then rely on ABS to keep the rears from locking during hard dry-pavement braking. This is something we have to live with (unless you want to try mixing brake pad material: use aggressive front pads and medium-level rears).


All that having been said, I am not impressed with the factory 135i brakes. They transfer too much heat to the pads & fluid -- I boiled the Motul Racing Fluid in the 135i very quickly on track. They also do not have very good feel. The only other brakes I have tried on these cars are the StopTechs on the HP Autowerks 335i, and they are absolutely phenomenal in both feel and stopping performance.

If they are in your price range, I'd look at what StopTech has to offer. But if that is out of your budget (or you have to stay OEM), the 135i brakes are fine for spirited street driving and occasional track use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterfan1230 View Post
J Tyler,
I've never tracked or auto crossed in my life and would like to get involved in these type of events. What would be my best place to start? Can I use a stock car?
Thanks in Advance.
You absolutely can use a stock car! And like bradford said, you will be amazed at how capable it is bone stock. As you progress in your driving abilities, the first limit you will come to on your car will be the braking system. Once there, you can upgrade the stock brake pads and fluid for a relatively small expense and presto -- you have a car capable of some serious track driving.

I also agree -- BMWCCA puts on good events for beginners. They are very structured/controlled/safe which is a good thing when you're starting out.

However, once you progress beyond 'beginner' status and are talented/comfortable enough, and if you are serious about driving, I would look into Jim Russell/Bondurant/Skip Barber racing schools. They will teach you about the physics of vehicle dynamics, and you get to beat the crap out of their cars while learning said physics first-hand. I also recommend the book Going Faster! by Skip Barber to beginners (and intermediates). Reading that first will get your mind thinking the right way before you even leave pit lane.

Personally I am not a fan of Autocross. I think it teaches bad habits: jerkiness, tunnel-vision (focusing intently on that one apex cone rather than taking a broad view of the road ahead of you), stabbing at the brakes.... these are all characteristics of every autocrosser I have instructed. Once they get on a real track, those habits are hard to break. This is why I say, just go straight to a real track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradford View Post
I'm not J Tyler, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


...well not really, but I've been doing these types of events for nearly ten years now, and I would recommend the experience highly. I started with a BMW Club event, even though I had an Audi at the time. I've since done events with BMW, Audi, Porsche, Mini, and independent clubs, and have instructed for most of them as well.

You can absolutely track a bone stock car, you'll be amazed at how capable the car is once you learn some basic skills. I would recommend going to the BMWCCA.org, finding your local chapter, and going to an event just to check it out. If you feel intimidated, you can always go just to check it out and see what it's like. You shouldn't be anxious though, because everyone's a n00b at some point, and the clubs all have easy-entry beginner classes that focus on teaching the basics of proper car control. Generally, at that level , you will do structured exercises to teach some concepts before being "let out" on the track. Of course, as a beginner, you will have an instructor with you at all times, helping you learn. I would caution you against doing any track events with an organization that does NOT require an instructor to be in your car 100% of the time during lapping as a beginner. BMW/Audi/etc clubs will not allow that anyway, but you may find some independents that are slightly more...how shall I say..."careless".

But anyway - you will have a blast. Check out the BMWCCA.org website and read up, I'm sure there are events in your area. Before you know it, you'll be a junkie like the rest of us...
^I agree -- BMWCCA is a great place to start.


Personally, I prefer the "careless independents" because they let me do what I want (drift, pass people, go out in different groups to get a little extra track time, etc). But I would not recommend groups like that for a beginner.





Happy Motoring ya'll
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      12-14-2009, 11:49 PM   #145
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J Tyler,

Thanks a lot for the information. I didn't think it would matter but I'm pretty sure no one has put the 2 piston in the rear on the 128i. Maybe I could be the first and can review.

I also heard those StopTech's were great on the E46 M3 too (as per Edmunds Insideline)..but I was fine with the stock ones on that car. Probably will be fine with the stock one's on the 135 too.
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      12-16-2009, 01:33 PM   #146
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Thanks for the info =)
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      12-28-2009, 09:47 PM   #147
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Hello,

I recently had the opportunity to test HP Autowerks' E90 335i project car at Buttonwillow Raceway. Buttonwillow is used by everything from 'Lemons' cars to Indycars for testing, magazines for shootouts, and clubs for open track days. And it happens to be THE benchmark for TimeAttack time trials in the U.S., which is why HPA chose it for a test day: to see how their project car would stack up against the fastest street-legal cars in the country.

We had just set the record for all N54-powered BMWs (135i/335i) at the Autoclub Speedway Roval in Fontana, CA with a time of 1:52.811 -- beating the next N54 car by over 2 seconds. This was at the Redline TimeAttack season finale in November.

We were hoping to set the bar again at Buttonwillow -- but we knew it would be close as Buttonwillow suits the smaller/lighter 135i's a bit more. To make a long story short, we spent 2 sessions working on setup and then laid down a hot lap of 2:00.1 -- the best for an N54 car so far. What's really impressive is that this 335i is a 4-door with full interior/AC/stereo/etc on DOT tires and no wings/aero work. It is a daily driver with ~45,000 miles on the clock, not a dedicated track car. For it to run a 2:00.1 is very impressive to me (and to everyone else who saw it!).

Unfortunately we did not get the fastest lap on video (SD card ran out of memory), but we did get a lazy 2:01.1. Here is some video from the day, hope you enjoy it!

http://vimeo.com/8363135


As always thanks to you guys for watching and a big thank-you to HP Autowerks for trusting me with driving duties. I had a blast driving this car!
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      12-30-2009, 12:37 PM   #148
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Thats awesome!!
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AW 135i w/ blackette, performance short shift kit, BMW alarm, Performance rotors, APEX ARC-8 wheels, Direzza Star Spec 235/275, Dinan stage 3 suspension, M3 wishbones/tension rods/front sway/rear subframe bushings and thats all folks!
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