BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      02-18-2014, 07:59 PM   #23
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What is the weight of your 128? I'd seriously suggest you get a diet on the car big time. Lightweight battery, pull the seats and weigh them relative the 25# weight requirement, and consider an exhaust build earlier (BMW exhausts weigh a ton). I love RS3's but have to agree the D2's or even R1R's can be the answer since you need to be able to perform at max threshold on the first run for events with 3 runs per day. Differential will be important. I'll be at a few Nat'l events this year leading to Lincoln. I'm sure our paths will cross.
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      02-18-2014, 08:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
What is the weight of your 128? I'd seriously suggest you get a diet on the car big time. Lightweight battery, pull the seats and weigh them relative the 25# weight requirement, and consider an exhaust build earlier (BMW exhausts weigh a ton). I love RS3's but have to agree the D2's or even R1R's can be the answer since you need to be able to perform at max threshold on the first run for events with 3 runs per day. Differential will be important. I'll be at a few Nat'l events this year leading to Lincoln. I'm sure our paths will cross.
Oh, the 128 needs to go on a diet big time (I'm skinny to begin with...so I think I'm good )

I'm fairly sure it is 3200 stock (I'm pretty sure MotorTrend and other magazines have the curb with full fluids and sunroof...etc). 128s with no sunroof are pretty rare, so I don't think this is even accounted for...so give -40 or so lbs.

I need to get the car weighed once the new wheels are on. With a 1/8 of a tank, no windshield washer fluid...etc I would imagine I would be fairly close to sub 3000....at least I hope so.

Unfortunately cash isn't going to be on my side for seats this year, the differential is on the list before seats...as I think I'm going to get better bang for my buck...so to speak.

Exhaust may or may not come this year. Kinda waiting on AA to finalize development on the 128 exhaust...suppose to weigh 14 lbs or around there, which will be nice since I can dump the resonator and still maintain sound restrictions.

Figure shedding seats saves 30 or so lbs per seat (I already have manual seats so they are lighter than power), and light weight battery saves around 40lbs, I should be around 2875-2900 in STX trim, if all goes well.

With headers, tune...etc I should be making pretty close power/weight ratio against top contenders.

Wilmington I'm already registered against Danny Kao, which is running Pallotta's old FRS...so it should give me a fairly good baseline of where I stand. I don't expect top results by any means, but should give me a good idea of where I stand with the car.

I'm assuming we'll meet in Toledo, or somewhere...can't wait to see your STR Z3 run

EDIT: Just noticed you have a Performance Gearing Diff. Care you PM me some specs on the diff if you don't mind (lock, ramp angles...etc)

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      02-18-2014, 09:19 PM   #25
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I would be pretty shocked if you can get below 2900 even with a strict diet but am rooting for you. Tire to weight ratio is the major culprit in ST classes as UHP tires may have very high g load capabilities, but very short duration they can sustain it. I'll be interested to hear whether there are any BRZ/FRS owners who are still trying to run E85 as it will be hard for them to walk away from the performance bump they briefly enjoyed last year. Pallotta and Keeley both run in Milwaukee region. Keeley ran with me and others enjoying limited success in Chicago SCCA STR for most of a season before switching to the BRZ. For comparison, my Z weighs in around 2720# and has an exceptionally low COG.

I have 40/90, (40* ramp on acceleration, 90* on decel), with dynamically more lockup during acceleration as the wheel speed difference increases, and no dynamic lockup on decel, just the static 40-45 lbs using the 4 clutch setup and unfortunately the OE 3.07 gear set. It makes a tremendous impact on rear grip in early to mid apex cornering.
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      02-19-2014, 07:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
I would be pretty shocked if you can get below 2900 even with a strict diet but am rooting for you. Tire to weight ratio is the major culprit in ST classes as UHP tires may have very high g load capabilities, but very short duration they can sustain it. I'll be interested to hear whether there are any BRZ/FRS owners who are still trying to run E85 as it will be hard for them to walk away from the performance bump they briefly enjoyed last year. Pallotta and Keeley both run in Milwaukee region. Keeley ran with me and others enjoying limited success in Chicago SCCA STR for most of a season before switching to the BRZ. For comparison, my Z weighs in around 2720# and has an exceptionally low COG.

I have 40/90, (40* ramp on acceleration, 90* on decel), with dynamically more lockup during acceleration as the wheel speed difference increases, and no dynamic lockup on decel, just the static 40-45 lbs using the 4 clutch setup and unfortunately the OE 3.07 gear set. It makes a tremendous impact on rear grip in early to mid apex cornering.
Yea, 2900 is a tough goal, but with basically trimming everything possible it could be done. I have the 17x8.5 APEX wheels, which are the lightest they offer in addition to dumping the runflat weight, so that is some significant savings there.

Ultimately I need to get the car on a scale to see what stock weight is, until then, guessing what trim weight would be is waving a finger in the air.

Pallotta is local to me, so I'll probably have an event or two where I can bribe him to co-drive a local event to see what he thinks of my limited prep as it currently stands and what I should do moving forward. Talking to him before, he doesn't know if the 128 could compete with the BRZ/FRS.

That specs is exactly what Jim recommended, and what I think I want to go with. Initially I was thinking 45/45, but it may influence some understeer. I think my static was going to be around 80 ft-lbs from talking to him. My stock rear gears are at least 3.23. I'm assuming the tremendous impact is positive?

I have the E-Diff, which isn't anything to replace a mechanical....but should get me through a couple first events while I gather money for this expense.


The ST field is new for me...before I ran my Z4M for RTR/AS for 3 years (and a 325xi before that for a year) just for giggles until I found a project car that I could build and hope to be competitive. So this is a learning experience for me.
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      02-19-2014, 05:01 PM   #27
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Curious, why did you choose an E82? It's not exactly the best choice for competitive use...
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      02-19-2014, 06:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Curious, why did you choose an E82? It's not exactly the best choice for competitive use...
And where is the proof to back that claim?

Not trying to argue, but there isn't any 128s that have seen Nationals this past couple of years. In fact, basically no information.

Why do you think that?
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      02-19-2014, 07:11 PM   #29
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Once you go with the diff, be forewarned the impact is so big you chase your tail a little bit. The first year, the best description was two steps forward, one back. Now, the adjustments are far more predictable. My approach is to make each end of the car corner/put power down as best they possibly can. Some people approach setup where they want the front and rear to be exactly the same so they dumb down the end of the car which is working to match the weaker end. Don't do this.
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      02-19-2014, 07:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
And where is the proof to back that claim?

Not trying to argue, but there isn't any 128s that have seen Nationals this past couple of years. In fact, basically no information.

Why do you think that?
- Classing
- Weight
- Body design (tall greenhouse, CoG, relatively narrow, wheelbase)
- Aftermarket support

Predominantly, it's an issue of classing, I think. In STX right now, within a year, the Toyobarus have found setups that work. They weigh approximately 400lbs less than a US spec E82 yet can run 17x9 wheels w/ 255 rubber all day. From the ground up, it seems like a superior car for solo. Sure the 1'er has more power, but with more mass, and the same, or less tire than the twins, it's going to be working the tires a lot harder.

I'm in no way trying to deter you, there's a reason I have an 135i and not an FR-S. I was just curious what your mindset was going into this.
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      02-19-2014, 07:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
Once you go with the diff, be forewarned the impact is so big you chase your tail a little bit. The first year, the best description was two steps forward, one back. Now, the adjustments are far more predictable. My approach is to make each end of the car corner/put power down as best they possibly can. Some people approach setup where they want the front and rear to be exactly the same so they dumb down the end of the car which is working to match the weaker end. Don't do this.
Yep, makes sense.

I'm use to driving on my M Variable on the Z4M, so I really want a diff ASAP so I don't lose that type of feel. Of course, a M Variable isnt the same as a clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
- Classing
- Weight
- Body design (tall greenhouse, CoG, relatively narrow, wheelbase)
- Aftermarket support

Predominantly, it's an issue of classing, I think. In STX right now, within a year, the Toyobarus have found setups that work. They weigh approximately 400lbs less than a US spec E82 yet can run 17x9 wheels w/ 255 rubber all day. From the ground up, it seems like a superior car for solo. Sure the 1'er has more power, but with more mass, and the same, or less tire than the twins, it's going to be working the tires a lot harder.

I'm in no way trying to deter you, there's a reason I have an 135i and not an FR-S. I was just curious what your mindset was going into this.
What classing do you think a 128 goes in? STX is the only place.

Weight - I should be sub 3000. You have to remember, the car has more power than typical STX car, so it should help on longer courses. Yes, it won't be able to probably corner as well as a FRS, but it has torque...a FRS does not

Body Design - Short wheelbase is better, makes it more nimble. Dropping the car an inch or so will help eliminate the tall issue.

Aftermarket support? I don't really even know what this means? I already have DA suspension sitting in my room, a front 28mm bar coming tomorrow along with wheels. Supersprint headers, a performance gearing diff, an exhaust, seats, lightweight battery and tune are all easily available. A full build on STX isn't that hard to do.

I can run 255 tire as well, but they are 8.5 wheels.

If the FRS are the car to have, with 255 tires, then why did a RX-8 win nationals last year on 235 R1R tires?

Why did an E36 win the Solo Finale in STX?

Why did a E36 M3 win STU at 2012 Nationals?


Everyone said my Z4M couldn't play against the FRS crowd in RTR. Not at national level (because I didn't attend any), but local events I was very competitive with my car...The Z4M is a boat with no camber, on paper it isn't even a close match up against a FRS. But that was the complete opposite. http://ovr-scca.org/uploads/ax_resul...-07-14.htm#RTR

Then people said the car would suck with a A-Stock pax...

Same event, bracket run offs.

http://ovr-scca.org/downloads/autocr...GovCupData.htm

http://ovr-scca.org/downloads/autocr...CupBracket.htm



You can play a what-if game all day long. In the end, there is no evidence other than a spec sheet that says.

Until the Match Tour at the beginning of April and local events start, can't really say if it will or will not be competitive. There will be plenty of FRS/BRZ to go against at the Match Tour...7 are already registered.

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      02-19-2014, 08:42 PM   #32
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The FRS/BRZ really benefitted from a great deal of after market support and auto enthusiast jumping on board to accept the car while talking up development. In 2013, it also had a big jump in power/torque b/c it could use E85 and tunes for E85 which shored up the whopping drop in power band. That went away in 2014. It may be the advances will overcome this take back but realistically a fair amount of talent left STX and sold their BRZ's because they did not want to race without the E85 and tune. I bet there will still be some trying to slide through but the smell is pretty obvious.
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      02-19-2014, 10:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
The FRS/BRZ really benefitted from a great deal of after market support and auto enthusiast jumping on board to accept the car while talking up development. In 2013, it also had a big jump in power/torque b/c it could use E85 and tunes for E85 which shored up the whopping drop in power band. That went away in 2014. It may be the advances will overcome this take back but realistically a fair amount of talent left STX and sold their BRZ's because they did not want to race without the E85 and tune. I bet there will still be some trying to slide through but the smell is pretty obvious.
They can't run corn for 2014? Wow, this changes a lot of things. This will get interesting.
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      02-20-2014, 06:14 PM   #34
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17x8.5 ARC8s and Eibach 28mm sway bar have been delivered today.

Kinda gotta start installing parts.

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      02-20-2014, 07:07 PM   #35
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Curious to hear your impressions with the Eibach bar.
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      02-20-2014, 07:58 PM   #36
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Is the eibach adjustable?


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      02-20-2014, 08:13 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
Curious to hear your impressions with the Eibach bar.
A bar is a bar.

I got this one because it is cheapest of the options and the biggest solid available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmons-Racing View Post
Is the eibach adjustable?


Simmons
Nope, most 128 bars are not. The only one I found adjustable is hotchkis and I don't want to spend $400 on a bar.

I had a 3-way adjustable on my Z4M, and never touched it.

Especially with DAs, I'd rather do a couple clicks and tune the car in between runs rather than playing around with a bar.
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      02-21-2014, 11:01 AM   #38
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In stock class I need all the adjustment I can get.

Will the eibach bar from a M3 fit? They show that being adjustable.


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      02-23-2014, 10:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmons-Racing View Post
In stock class I need all the adjustment I can get.

Will the eibach bar from a M3 fit? They show that being adjustable.


Simmons
It should fit. However I know upgrading from a Non-M to a M Bar, you need different brackets....
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      02-24-2014, 06:52 PM   #40
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Final products finally rolling on in.

Schroth Quick-Fit Pro!



Decided to order 245 Dunlop ZIIs, they should be here tomorrow.

Just need brake pads to come on in, along with a possible tune/exhaust form Active Autowerke
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      02-24-2014, 08:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
- Classing
- Weight
- Body design (tall greenhouse, CoG, relatively narrow, wheelbase)
- Aftermarket support

Predominantly, it's an issue of classing, I think. In STX right now, within a year, the Toyobarus have found setups that work. They weigh approximately 400lbs less than a US spec E82 yet can run 17x9 wheels w/ 255 rubber all day. From the ground up, it seems like a superior car for solo. Sure the 1'er has more power, but with more mass, and the same, or less tire than the twins, it's going to be working the tires a lot harder.

I'm in no way trying to deter you, there's a reason I have an 135i and not an FR-S. I was just curious what your mindset was going into this.
My BRZ was 2,550 lbs with 208whp/ 164wtq with e85. On 93 it was 193whp.

What kind of hp/tq would the 128 make?

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      02-24-2014, 08:49 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmons-Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
- Classing
- Weight
- Body design (tall greenhouse, CoG, relatively narrow, wheelbase)
- Aftermarket support

Predominantly, it's an issue of classing, I think. In STX right now, within a year, the Toyobarus have found setups that work. They weigh approximately 400lbs less than a US spec E82 yet can run 17x9 wheels w/ 255 rubber all day. From the ground up, it seems like a superior car for solo. Sure the 1'er has more power, but with more mass, and the same, or less tire than the twins, it's going to be working the tires a lot harder.

I'm in no way trying to deter you, there's a reason I have an 135i and not an FR-S. I was just curious what your mindset was going into this.
My BRZ was 2,550 lbs with 208whp/ 164wtq with e85. On 93 it was 193whp.

What kind of hp/tq would the 128 make?

Simmons
Conservative would be 3000 lbs (assuming seats, wheels, exhaust mods)

With headers and tune, I would hope yo get 220-230 at the wheels....which should be very easy to achieve. that'll but me at similar figures as the BRZ
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      03-02-2014, 12:59 PM   #43
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Minor Update:

Got my tires mounted onto my ARC8s. So I decided to see how much official weight I shed with just wheels/tires.

Front OEM Wheels (17x7 w/ 205/50/17 Tires)


Rear OEM Wheels (17x7.5 w/ 225/45/17 Tires)


APEX ARC8s (17x8.5 w/ 245/40/17 Tires)




So, in summary...OEM wheels weigh 204 lbs where as my APEX wheels weigh 175.2

Which equals a weight savings of 28.8 lbs

Given this is unsprung weight, our "felt" weight savings will be this times 4 (typically). So the felt weight savings should be around 115 lbs
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      03-02-2014, 01:33 PM   #44
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And if anyone is wondering, they fit in the back:

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