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      06-04-2014, 11:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
A 700hp 135i or even 1m is so pointless. It's only purpose is for going on a Dyno and internet bragging.
It would also be a good highway car if you are into that kind of thing. But I agree, if I wanted that much power, I would go with a different platform.
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      06-04-2014, 11:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RnmEvo9
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
A 700hp 135i or even 1m is so pointless. It's only purpose is for going on a Dyno and internet bragging.
It would also be a good highway car if you are into that kind of thing. But I agree, if I wanted that much power, I would go with a different platform.
A good highway car? So you could go 180 mph on the way to work?
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      06-04-2014, 11:58 PM   #25
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Eh, silly things to say in general

if i wanted the fastest car on the track that could handle the 1/4 + highway well as well, i'd own an evo (IX or VI probably)...

But i don't, so calling 700whp+ in a 1er pointless is redundant.
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      06-05-2014, 12:09 AM   #26
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So- back to N/A cars
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      06-05-2014, 01:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
the turbo kits are coming out, tuning is being sorted. (Vargas twin GTX28 kits shouldn't be more than a couple more months away?)

twin HPFP solution nearing release (couple of months away)

drop in super high flow LPFP's coming out now.

lots of people doing full rebuilds.

not to mention BMS's single turbo 135i with a 5862 making ~600rwhp on a fairly mild tune.



how is it ruined?

have you seen the power/torque curves? they're butter smooth, rather than the massive midrange hump on stock twins, making power BEYOND factory redline!

DI on these motors let you go for incredible spool on a reasonable sized single.

plus, less, less aggressive torque (so less stress on motor, trans, driveline etc.) for more, easier to control, power.

i'd say massively improved personally.

these cars will sing with a well tuned GTX3582, and i can't wait to see someone try to fit a 42R or 9180 or something haha


I will be interested to see this HPFP solution.

The Garrett GTX2863R(I'm guessing this is what you ment) and the Precision 5862 turbos you've listed are not going to produce this butter smooth torque curve like you think it will.

Your not going to make anything but noise past factory redline unless the head flow is increased, a set of more aggressive cams are installed, and the retainers are replaced.

Meth, Stronger half-shafts, increased capacity for the entire coolant system, increase oil capacity, transmission(straight cut gears, puck clutch), engine internals(bearings, rods, wrist pins), better flowing heads and cams, injectors(Direct Injection yay!), fuel pump(s), need way bigger tires out back or slicks.

These are just some of the items that I can think of off the top of my head that will need improved upon and/or replaced, I know I am missing some. If you fail to do these things then yes you have ruined the car. Slapping turbo(s) on a car should be the very last thing. IMO if Cobb Tuning isn't taking care of the tune for the turboed car, forget it. I wouldn't touch BMS with a ten foot pole, read way to many threads on shitty customer service.

So after a person has dropped at least 10 grand on all of this the question is why? Why this platform? You could have put that much in a vette and been at 800rwhp on pump/e85 and twice as aerodynamic.

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      06-05-2014, 01:58 AM   #28
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So- back to N/A cars
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      06-05-2014, 05:18 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post


I will be interested to see this HPFP solution.

The Garrett GTX2863R(I'm guessing this is what you ment) and the Precision 5862 turbos you've listed are not going to produce this butter smooth torque curve like you think it will.

Your not going to make anything but noise past factory redline unless the head flow is increased, a set of more aggressive cams are installed, and the retainers are replaced.

Meth, Stronger half-shafts, increased capacity for the entire coolant system, increase oil capacity, transmission(straight cut gears, puck clutch), engine internals(bearings, rods, wrist pins), better flowing heads and cams, injectors(Direct Injection yay!), fuel pump(s), need way bigger tires out back or slicks.

These are just some of the items that I can think of off the top of my head that will need improved upon and/or replaced, I know I am missing some. If you fail to do these things then yes you have ruined the car. Slapping turbo(s) on a car should be the very last thing. IMO if Cobb Tuning isn't taking care of the tune for the turboed car, forget it. I wouldn't touch BMS with a ten foot pole, read way to many threads on shitty customer service.

So after a person has dropped at least 10 grand on all of this the question is why? Why this platform? You could have put that much in a vette and been at 800rwhp on pump/e85 and twice as aerodynamic.
bs? really? you need to do some research on these cars a bit more methinks.

butter smooth is relative haha

and no i meant GTX3582R.. vargas twins are GTX28's, and his dynos do show very smooth power delivery.

i've seen them make good curves on 2.0 4cyls ffs. i've seen the dynos on N54's, and they're just as i describe, very smooth.

if you read the other forum, there's dynos showing gains on a modified head, it's about 9% power gained and way better breathing - however, the highest power dynos show peak power at redline, so there's plenty more room with a large enough turbo.. OEM retainers are surprisingly light weight, but yes titanium ones already exist.. cams don't exist, and while i don't think they're NEEDED.. they'll obviously help, a little more lift and duration please.

meth won't be needed with dual HPFP's for E85. i don't want to run meth at all personally, and can't for the events i want to enter

half shafts aren't needed yet, up to 753whp... DSS has some already, wheel hop at high torque (ie not what the singles are about) is the only real halfshaft killer.

water cooling isn't a problem on 6MT, and easily fixed on 6AT (which has more problems to deal with...)

oil cooling is already done on stock turbo N54's..

manual transmission is perfectly capable and strong, it has taken 655ft-lb... for reference, at factory redline 650 ft-lb is almost 900whp...

The already commonly used SPEC 3+ is rated for 671ft-lb.

engine internals, again, have taken over 650 ft-lb and over 750whp... again again, loads of people are already doing full rebuilds. not one person has cracked a cylinder or bent a rod from anything other than bad luck or terrible tuning/maintenance.

factory injectors on E85 should be able to flow at least 900whp from what i've worked out.. 1000++ on race fuel... fuel pumps already discussed. Depends on revs for the injectors though.. they'll start struggling at crazy power 7500--8000rpm probably. no one knows for sure til they try though

tire wise, the torque comes on later and smoother, so traction issues won't be any worse than a 500-550whp RB equipped torque monster lol.

BMS shitty customer service? do you even read these forums? he's always fixed every problem that people have complained about and is very active..

regardless, the current record is held by a PTF tuned car, and personally i'll be most likely using cobb anyway.. depends which one has better control.

and why would you do it on the BMW?... wtf why are you even here then.. the real question is why not?

like i said before, if i wanted the best bang for buck race car, i'd own a freakin stroker evo. put the vette to shame... or if i wanted pure straight line bulk power, i'd get something old and japanese and stick a turbo LSX or L98 or something in it... plus, our cars don't have terrible drag coefficients, actually, the vette is (C6) .34.. E90 is .26-.30.. E82 as far as i can tell is something like .32, and has a lower frontal area than the vette so LOADS less drag. oh and we can't buy vettes for sub $100k over here.

Last edited by flinchy; 06-05-2014 at 05:27 AM..
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      06-05-2014, 06:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post

how is it ruined?
Great cars are always a balance. 700hp and matching torque through a platform that can barely fit tires larger than a 265 in the rear is simply idiotic. The Aventador, which is both AWD and has less torque to deal with, has 335s out back.

700hp is a dick measuring contest, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with real performance, drivability, or driving fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobeballer96 View Post
He thinks anything is ruin if it's not OEM. Lol personally I feel the 135i was the car for me, I'm always tinkering with power. Miss my old car.
First off, I hate OEM. That has been pretty clearly established. Secondly, that's a pretty odd statement to make about the guy who has one of the most modded 128s anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
A 700hp 135i or even 1m is so pointless. It's only purpose is for going on a Dyno and internet bragging.
Exactly.

It's a trend you see all the time on car forums. Party X buys car. Party X than massively mods car for epeen forum love. 1x-3x the value of the car is spent modding it. People lose interest in Party X's car fairly quickly. Party X sells the car for less than the rest of the market, let alone the mod cost.
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      06-05-2014, 07:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
bs? really? you need to do some research on these cars a bit more methinks.

butter smooth is relative haha

and no i meant GTX3582R.. vargas twins are GTX28's, and his dynos do show very smooth power delivery.

i've seen them make good curves on 2.0 4cyls ffs. i've seen the dynos on N54's, and they're just as i describe, very smooth.

if you read the other forum, there's dynos showing gains on a modified head, it's about 9% power gained and way better breathing - however, the highest power dynos show peak power at redline, so there's plenty more room with a large enough turbo.. OEM retainers are surprisingly light weight, but yes titanium ones already exist.. cams don't exist, and while i don't think they're NEEDED.. they'll obviously help, a little more lift and duration please.

meth won't be needed with dual HPFP's for E85. i don't want to run meth at all personally, and can't for the events i want to enter

half shafts aren't needed yet, up to 753whp... DSS has some already, wheel hop at high torque (ie not what the singles are about) is the only real halfshaft killer.

water cooling isn't a problem on 6MT, and easily fixed on 6AT (which has more problems to deal with...)

oil cooling is already done on stock turbo N54's..

manual transmission is perfectly capable and strong, it has taken 655ft-lb... for reference, at factory redline 650 ft-lb is almost 900whp...

The already commonly used SPEC 3+ is rated for 671ft-lb.

engine internals, again, have taken over 650 ft-lb and over 750whp... again again, loads of people are already doing full rebuilds. not one person has cracked a cylinder or bent a rod from anything other than bad luck or terrible tuning/maintenance.

factory injectors on E85 should be able to flow at least 900whp from what i've worked out.. 1000++ on race fuel... fuel pumps already discussed. Depends on revs for the injectors though.. they'll start struggling at crazy power 7500--8000rpm probably. no one knows for sure til they try though

tire wise, the torque comes on later and smoother, so traction issues won't be any worse than a 500-550whp RB equipped torque monster lol.

BMS shitty customer service? do you even read these forums? he's always fixed every problem that people have complained about and is very active..

regardless, the current record is held by a PTF tuned car, and personally i'll be most likely using cobb anyway.. depends which one has better control.

and why would you do it on the BMW?... wtf why are you even here then.. the real question is why not?

like i said before, if i wanted the best bang for buck race car, i'd own a freakin stroker evo. put the vette to shame... or if i wanted pure straight line bulk power, i'd get something old and japanese and stick a turbo LSX or L98 or something in it... plus, our cars don't have terrible drag coefficients, actually, the vette is (C6) .34.. E90 is .26-.30.. E82 as far as i can tell is something like .32, and has a lower frontal area than the vette so LOADS less drag. oh and we can't buy vettes for sub $100k over here.

Bravo we'll said.

And STIG okay got it. But why have a modded car with track suspension and power mods if you don't even track it lol SHOW CAR?
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      06-05-2014, 07:11 AM   #32
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And STIG sorry the caps came on some how haha I wasn't bashing but seriously asking! Why???
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      06-05-2014, 08:11 AM   #33
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Who says I don't track it? I'm not a member of the PCA/BMWCCA for the newsletters or picnics...

Also, nothing on the car is track only. At the end of the day, it is my daily.
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      06-05-2014, 01:58 PM   #34
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Who says I don't track it? I'm not a member of the PCA/BMWCCA for the newsletters or picnics...

Also, nothing on the car is track only. At the end of the day, it is my daily.
It's all about those picnics man!!
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      06-05-2014, 02:15 PM   #35
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It's all about those picnics man!!
I'll admit, I go to the free ones.
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      06-05-2014, 02:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
bs? really? you need to do some research on these cars a bit more methinks.

butter smooth is relative haha

and no i meant GTX3582R.. vargas twins are GTX28's, and his dynos do show very smooth power delivery.

i've seen them make good curves on 2.0 4cyls ffs. i've seen the dynos on N54's, and they're just as i describe, very smooth.

if you read the other forum, there's dynos showing gains on a modified head, it's about 9% power gained and way better breathing - however, the highest power dynos show peak power at redline, so there's plenty more room with a large enough turbo.. OEM retainers are surprisingly light weight, but yes titanium ones already exist.. cams don't exist, and while i don't think they're NEEDED.. they'll obviously help, a little more lift and duration please.

meth won't be needed with dual HPFP's for E85. i don't want to run meth at all personally, and can't for the events i want to enter

half shafts aren't needed yet, up to 753whp... DSS has some already, wheel hop at high torque (ie not what the singles are about) is the only real halfshaft killer.

water cooling isn't a problem on 6MT, and easily fixed on 6AT (which has more problems to deal with...)

oil cooling is already done on stock turbo N54's..

manual transmission is perfectly capable and strong, it has taken 655ft-lb... for reference, at factory redline 650 ft-lb is almost 900whp...

The already commonly used SPEC 3+ is rated for 671ft-lb.

engine internals, again, have taken over 650 ft-lb and over 750whp... again again, loads of people are already doing full rebuilds. not one person has cracked a cylinder or bent a rod from anything other than bad luck or terrible tuning/maintenance.

factory injectors on E85 should be able to flow at least 900whp from what i've worked out.. 1000++ on race fuel... fuel pumps already discussed. Depends on revs for the injectors though.. they'll start struggling at crazy power 7500--8000rpm probably. no one knows for sure til they try though

tire wise, the torque comes on later and smoother, so traction issues won't be any worse than a 500-550whp RB equipped torque monster lol.

BMS shitty customer service? do you even read these forums? he's always fixed every problem that people have complained about and is very active..

regardless, the current record is held by a PTF tuned car, and personally i'll be most likely using cobb anyway.. depends which one has better control.

and why would you do it on the BMW?... wtf why are you even here then.. the real question is why not?

like i said before, if i wanted the best bang for buck race car, i'd own a freakin stroker evo. put the vette to shame... or if i wanted pure straight line bulk power, i'd get something old and japanese and stick a turbo LSX or L98 or something in it... plus, our cars don't have terrible drag coefficients, actually, the vette is (C6) .34.. E90 is .26-.30.. E82 as far as i can tell is something like .32, and has a lower frontal area than the vette so LOADS less drag. oh and we can't buy vettes for sub $100k over here.
@ stroker evo putting vettes to shame. Look up LMR 2,000hp Vette. Stateside we can get C6 Z06's south of 40 grand. I don't like evos, I will give them credit though some are quick.


Corvette (C6)= 0.286 (http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam..._eBrochure.pdf)

BMW 1 Series= 0.31 (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-135-2013/expert-review/)

My point was if horsepower and speed are your main goal this is the wrong platform as many have stated. Trying to make them high hp dyno queens is ruining the car.

You should post some of the butter smooth dynojet graphs.

E85 should be interesting, I don't know what the current duty cycle is on these injectors but bumping up HP plus 30% more fuel for E85 seems like a lot to ask of factory injectors...

753whp on factory 28 spline half shafts? Where did you get such a number? I find it hard to believe the DSS would go through the trouble of making/improving half shafts for this car for only about 200 crank hp more than the factory shafts are good for..

Poke around a little more on e90post and here and you will see some people who weren't exactly taken care of by BMS. I don't consider them to be a top tier tuner by any means, look at Cobbs track record across multiple platforms on multiple brands.

Where are you getting these very specific numbers for: half shafts? engine internals? transmission? injectors? Basing numbers off of something 3 or 4 people have done offers little evidence of a solid thresh hold for a particular part. I am curious to the source of these so that I too can be informed of these specific results.

Last edited by MarkkyyMan; 06-05-2014 at 02:43 PM..
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      06-05-2014, 04:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Great cars are always a balance. 700hp and matching torque through a platform that can barely fit tires larger than a 265 in the rear is simply idiotic. The Aventador, which is both AWD and has less torque to deal with, has 335s out back.

700hp is a dick measuring contest, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with real performance, drivability, or driving fun.
lolwat?

seriously?

you can fit 285's in the rear of our 1ers with right wheel sizing/offsets (9.5 +62 for 135... +52 for other).. Hell, a 1M could fit >305 if they wanted.

it has everything to do with performance, drivability and fun, if you set it up right including tuning.

The local quickest cars are limited to 265 if they're AWD, and put down >800whp.. (RWD are 295 all 'round)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Exactly.

It's a trend you see all the time on car forums. Party X buys car. Party X than massively mods car for epeen forum love. 1x-3x the value of the car is spent modding it. People lose interest in Party X's car fairly quickly. Party X sells the car for less than the rest of the market, let alone the mod cost.
not going to happen with mine, fortunately lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
@ stroker evo putting vettes to shame. Look up LMR 2,000hp Vette. Stateside we can get C6 Z06's south of 40 grand. I don't like evos, I will give them credit though some are quick.
Yes, look up tilton, nemo, micks motorsport – and none of them are even the hardcore drag ones (ok ok, micks is i think, it's pretty mental from a standing start.), yet they’ll still run ~8’s and absolutely annihilate that vette on a circuit to boot.
I’m in Australia - http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...sortby=TopDeal

Yep, not even joking.

BTW, again, when I say ‘track’ I don’t mean ¼ mile, I mean a proper race track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Corvette (C6)= 0.286 (http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam..._eBrochure.pdf)

BMW 1 Series= 0.31 (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-135-2013/expert-review/)

My point was if horsepower and speed are your main goal this is the wrong platform as many have stated. Trying to make them high hp dyno queens is ruining the car.
0.286 is for the non Z06, 0.34 for the Z06. 0.31 for the 1 series would be for a lower model than the 135i, 135i has more drag.

There’s nothing wrong with this platform for horsepower and speed.. the ONLY thing wrong with it, is the short wheel base making it a bit twitchier, and all that REALLY means is talentless drivers need not apply. The motor is strong and easy to modify, the suspension/bolt-on-able parts are both plentiful, and designed with track performance in mind – the E8x and E9x will NEVER be good at ¼ mile times for the power they put down, it’s going to take way too much effort to get them better than low 10’s, and even that’s a stretch.

When I say ‘track’ I mean a proper circuit with corners and… you know, racing… what BMW’s in general are supposed to freakin do haha.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
You should post some of the butter smooth dynojet graphs.
Ok gimme a bit haha

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1385091155

first one i found.. obviously unfinished tuning, unfinished boost control, stock head, unrefined timing, MILES better than the terrible stock curve that has a HUGE hump

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
E85 should be interesting, I don't know what the current duty cycle is on these injectors but bumping up HP plus 30% more fuel for E85 seems like a lot to ask of factory injectors...
Specs can be found on the website: http://www.conti-online.com/www/down...cts_pdf_en.pdf

Current duty cycle is extremely low, and I’m assuming the specs aren’t 100% either.

So more HP + E85 is no biggy, the injectors are EXTREMELY high quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
753whp on factory 28 spline half shafts? Where did you get such a number? I find it hard to believe the DSS would go through the trouble of making/improving half shafts for this car for only about 200 crank hp more than the factory shafts are good for..
The other forum, the current record stands at 753whp, user aflatau
The previous record was something like 733 on a slapped together tune.. there’s multiple cars between 700-750whp now, all held back by fuelling alone.
Stock turbo E85 record was just set by Vargas at something like 556whp?
Stock turbo (and platform) torque record set at 65x by dzenno a while back with his ported head and RB’s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Poke around a little more on e90post and here and you will see some people who weren't exactly taken care of by BMS. I don't consider them to be a top tier tuner by any means, look at Cobbs track record across multiple platforms on multiple brands.
Yeah, if you keep reading those same threads, someone usually helps them out straight away, or proves they weren’t telling the truth 100%..
Cobb is an amazing company, I’m not disagreeing with you.. but saying BMS is on the same level as Vishnu in terms of poor support and poor track record is simply untrue, there’s supposedly something like >20,000 BMS JB’s sold to date.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan View Post
Where are you getting these very specific numbers for: half shafts? engine internals? transmission? injectors? Basing numbers off of something 3 or 4 people have done offers little evidence of a solid thresh hold for a particular part. I am curious to the source of these so that I too can be informed of these specific results.
The history of the platform? Like I said, you need to do more reading…
There’s DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of people over 600ft-lb on N54’s – horsepower doesn’t break things.. .TORQUE breaks things (and revs, but no one has exceeded stock redline in any capacity yet)
If you read e90post, the n54 section of 1addicts, the ‘other’ forum, n54tech.. all the info’s there.

Last edited by flinchy; 06-05-2014 at 04:47 PM..
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      06-05-2014, 04:43 PM   #38
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285 on the rear is still nothing if it has to try to cope with 700hp/tq.
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      06-05-2014, 04:50 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
285 on the rear is still nothing if it has to try to cope with 700hp/tq.
700hp is only 525 ft-lb... 285 is way way more than big enough (especially if we're talking 1/4 mile, and street radials ).. even non r-comp, pilot super sports or RE002's @ 285 are PLENTY.

like i said, N54's have made >>>600ft-lb on 265's and have no troubles. (again, remembering that torque is the issue, not horsepower... no matter what gear, or anything else the highest torque point is the highest instantaneous engine acceleration)
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      06-06-2014, 06:23 AM   #40
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Just no.
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      06-06-2014, 02:08 PM   #41
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2010 vipers have 345s rear with 560 ft-lb torque....it seems reasonable then that 285s might be a tad narrow for that powerband
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      06-06-2014, 02:20 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuphdc View Post
2010 vipers have 345s rear with 560 ft-lb torque....it seems reasonable then that 285s might be a tad narrow for that powerband
Yerp.
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      06-06-2014, 02:47 PM   #43
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I had 265s Hankook RS3s on 9" wheels for my Z4M with stock power (330 Crank @ 280 ft-lbs).

Even when they were at full operating temperature, it was still very easy to spin the rears in 2nd gear at WOT in a corner and loop the car.

There is no way 285s would work on a car with much, much more power
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      06-07-2014, 02:21 PM   #44
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Found the dyno - A normal 328i baseline is 170whp BTW...
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