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      08-24-2020, 09:29 PM   #67
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I'm currently putting 335i calipers on my 128i. I wouldn't do it until I confirmed that I wasn't altering the OE brake bias. I know all too well about the negative effects to ABS function and performance that are brought about by altering bias. Driving additional forward brake bias will also increase understeer on corner entry through the trail-braking phase, for those of you who are driving on tack. Upgrade wisely.
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128i vs 128i Performance vs 335i Brake Bias Calculations
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      08-25-2020, 03:52 PM   #68
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Are you swapping the master cylinder along with the 335i calipers? Or just the calipers?

From what I could find the 128i master cylinder has 23/22mm bores while the 335i has 25/22mm bores.
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      08-25-2020, 04:07 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
I'm currently putting 335i calipers on my 128i. I wouldn't do it until I confirmed that I wasn't altering the OE brake bias. I know all too well about the negative effects to ABS function and performance that are brought about by altering bias. Driving additional forward brake bias will also increase understeer on corner entry through the trail-braking phase, for those of you who are driving on tack. Upgrade wisely.
For those who need credentials: 5+ years engineer in OEM vehicle performance development, 4+ years as and professional development and race driver.

128i vs 128i Performance vs 335i Brake Bias Calculations
BMW seems to think the 6 piston 135i calipers/rotors with the 328i rear 42mm calipers is fine and with a stock master cylinder.

The DSC needs to be coded with a VO containing +SPBR for the system to work correctly again. It changes a few coefficients. Somehow it also changed my pedal feel.

The 135i fronts are 2437 mm^2 (338x26 rotor) area and the F30 fronts are 2513 mm^2 (340x30 rotor). I chose the F30 calipers because the 135i's crack and the rotor is more massive.

135i/335i/328i master cylinder isn't a bad idea. Mine's in the mail.
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      09-01-2020, 11:42 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
Are you swapping the master cylinder along with the 335i calipers? Or just the calipers?

From what I could find the 128i master cylinder has 23/22mm bores while the 335i has 25/22mm bores.
I am NOT changing master cylinder, as I wish to maintain my brake bias. If the pedal travel is too long, I may consider a change.

My bigger concern might become getting Corner Brake Control coded out. I used to race a 328i that was being prepared for IMSA ST, but was on stock ABS, and the CBC was a significant problem.
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      09-01-2020, 11:47 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE82 View Post
BMW seems to think the 6 piston 135i calipers/rotors with the 328i rear 42mm calipers is fine and with a stock master cylinder.

The DSC needs to be coded with a VO containing +SPBR for the system to work correctly again. It changes a few coefficients. Somehow it also changed my pedal feel.

The 135i fronts are 2437 mm^2 (338x26 rotor) area and the F30 fronts are 2513 mm^2 (340x30 rotor). I chose the F30 calipers because the 135i's crack and the rotor is more massive.

135i/335i/328i master cylinder isn't a bad idea. Mine's in the mail.
Is it reasonable to assume that the ABS calibration is being changed with that coding to match the new brake bias?

A 135i rotor would be 5mm smaller in radius to an E90 335i rotor. Wouldn't that put the pad off the edge of the rotor? I've gone with the 2-piece Z4 35is 348mm rotor.
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      09-01-2020, 02:52 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
Is it reasonable to assume that the ABS calibration is being changed with that coding to match the new brake bias?

A 135i rotor would be 5mm smaller in radius to an E90 335i rotor. Wouldn't that put the pad off the edge of the rotor? I've gone with the 2-piece Z4 35is 348mm rotor.
Yes, I would assume it's new parameters for ABS and stability control programs.

I'm not sure what you mean with your comparison of rotor sizes. If you're using E90 335i front calipers, then you use 335i front rotors. The 135i stock rotors are paired with 135i specific 6 piston calipers and pads that fit those rotors.
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      09-03-2020, 09:19 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE82 View Post
Yes, I would assume it's new parameters for ABS and stability control programs.

I'm not sure what you mean with your comparison of rotor sizes. If you're using E90 335i front calipers, then you use 335i front rotors. The 135i stock rotors are paired with 135i specific 6 piston calipers and pads that fit those rotors.
The measurements I have for the 335i and Z4 35is rotors is 348mm. You had indicated that the 135i rotors were 338mm. I don't know that to be true, but was noting that the radius of the 335i rotors was 5mm larger than that.
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      09-17-2020, 10:49 AM   #74
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So, I just learned the hard way that 335i rotors will not work in the rear of a 128i. My friend had installed them in his 328i, which is shown on RealOEM to have the identical rear wheel carrier as 128i. I thought I was only losing the parking brake. But the 335i rotor has a different offset from 128i. I now look back and see why others have not used the 335i rears.

Honestly, I have no idea why its working on his 328i, unless RealOEM is wrong and the 328i actually has a 335i carrier. 128i and 328i have different rotor part numbers, yet both are 300x20mm. Maybe the offsets are, in fact, different, but the 328i matches the 335i?

In any case, my only option at this point (at least to be able to leave tomorrow for the track), is to go with 328i rear calipers. I'm going to pick them up this afternoon and give that a try, along with coding the Performance Brakes into the DSC, if my other friend can help. Knowing I'm moving the brake bias forward, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (for limit braking) if the ABS is able to be retuned to accommodate it.

Any advice on rear brake fitment is appreciated!
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      09-17-2020, 12:04 PM   #75
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Z3SpdDmn E82 rear hubs sit 10mm further out than E9x. It's a popular mod in order to run those rotors and easier wheel fitments. See the thread below.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=975919
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      09-17-2020, 12:20 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
Z3SpdDmn E82 rear hubs sit 10mm further out than E9x. It's a popular mod in order to run those rotors and easier wheel fitments. See the thread below.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=975919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
So, I just learned the hard way that 335i rotors will not work in the rear of a 128i. My friend had installed them in his 328i, which is shown on RealOEM to have the identical rear wheel carrier as 128i. I thought I was only losing the parking brake. But the 335i rotor has a different offset from 128i. I now look back and see why others have not used the 335i rears.

Honestly, I have no idea why its working on his 328i, unless RealOEM is wrong and the 328i actually has a 335i carrier. 128i and 328i have different rotor part numbers, yet both are 300x20mm. Maybe the offsets are, in fact, different, but the 328i matches the 335i?

In any case, my only option at this point (at least to be able to leave tomorrow for the track), is to go with 328i rear calipers. I'm going to pick them up this afternoon and give that a try, along with coding the Performance Brakes into the DSC, if my other friend can help. Knowing I'm moving the brake bias forward, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (for limit braking) if the ABS is able to be retuned to accommodate it.

Any advice on rear brake fitment is appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
Z3SpdDmn E82 rear hubs sit 10mm further out than E9x. It's a popular mod in order to run those rotors and easier wheel fitments. See the thread below.

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=975919
Yep the hub is the other part of the equation.

The 328i rear caliper piston is 42 mm and will shift your bias to the rear which helps if you've installed the E82 6 pistons, E90 335i single pistons, or F30 4 piston.
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      10-04-2020, 02:19 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE82 View Post
The 328i rear caliper piston is 42 mm and will shift your bias to the rear which helps if you've installed the E82 6 pistons, E90 335i single pistons, or F30 4 piston.
This is what I ended up doing in a last-minute effort to get the car wrapped up for the track weekend. I also had the Sport Brake option coded into the DSC ECU, which presumably calls up a revised ABS calibration. It is my assumption that there is an alternate ABS cal, though it could be a stability control cal, or maybe both, to deal with the forward bias.

The forward bias should be more natually-split for limit braking, but actually give up a bit on sub-limit around-town driving, where you can make more use of the rear brakes since the weight isn't transferred off. This will just result in a bit more dive and front brake wear under normal braking conditions.

On the track, it was obviously front-limited (on shot 225/45/17 Michelin PS2's with potentially too much negative camber), but the ABS was not freaking out and engaging excessively prematurely. If I add some grip, it may continue to balance out at the limit.

Thanks for the comments.
So, what you're all telling me is that the difference in offset between 328i and 128i is coming from the actual wheel hub?
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      10-04-2020, 03:10 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE82 View Post
The 328i rear caliper piston is 42 mm and will shift your bias to the rear which helps if you've installed the E82 6 pistons, E90 335i single pistons, or F30 4 piston.
This is what I ended up doing in a last-minute effort to get the car wrapped up for the track weekend. I also had the Sport Brake option coded into the DSC ECU, which presumably calls up a revised ABS calibration. It is my assumption that there is an alternate ABS cal, though it could be a stability control cal, or maybe both, to deal with the forward bias.

The forward bias should be more natually-split for limit braking, but actually give up a bit on sub-limit around-town driving, where you can make more use of the rear brakes since the weight isn't transferred off. This will just result in a bit more dive and front brake wear under normal braking conditions.

On the track, it was obviously front-limited (on shot 225/45/17 Michelin PS2's with potentially too much negative camber), but the ABS was not freaking out and engaging excessively prematurely. If I add some grip, it may continue to balance out at the limit.

Thanks for the comments.
So, what you're all telling me is that the difference in offset between 328i and 128i is coming from the actual wheel hub?
Correct on that last point.

I'm at Barber right now about to finish my last of 8 sessions on the track. The brakes with Ferodo DS2500 have done well. Actually got limp mode from oil temp a couple times I think. Gotta make sure my engine power for brake fade coding worked. Next mod oil cooler!

I think the dust shield is getting pinched between a ball joint and the rotor and it causes a shreak of sorts at the limits of grip. I'm going to test for this next week and probably remove the dust shields or cut them.
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      04-03-2021, 07:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
I'm currently putting 335i calipers on my 128i. I wouldn't do it until I confirmed that I wasn't altering the OE brake bias. I know all too well about the negative effects to ABS function and performance that are brought about by altering bias. Driving additional forward brake bias will also increase understeer on corner entry through the trail-braking phase, for those of you who are driving on tack. Upgrade wisely.
For those who need credentials: 5+ years engineer in OEM vehicle performance development, 4+ years as and professional development and race driver.

128i vs 128i Performance vs 335i Brake Bias Calculations

I just did this swap on my 128i and I have a very long pedal. Did Yu end up having to swap out your master cylinder? Did the sport brake coding make any difference for pedal feel? TIA
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      05-10-2021, 07:43 PM   #80
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Quick question regarding the 328 (42mm piston) rear brakes on the 128i. I've read here it's a direct swap, do I need the 328 caliper carrier or does the 328 caliper bolt directly onto the 128 rear carrier? I assume the latter from what I've read, but want to confirm.
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      05-11-2021, 06:17 AM   #81
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The 42mm caliper bolts to the 128 stock caliper carrier.
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      05-11-2021, 09:30 AM   #82
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The 42mm caliper bolts to the 128 stock caliper carrier.
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      10-22-2021, 09:34 AM   #83
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In case anyone was curious you can fit the stock style 262 wheels with the 335i rotors if you use a 20mm spacer. Also, the 17x8.5 et40 apex arc 8 wheels fit with plenty of room without any spacers.
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      01-20-2022, 07:32 PM   #84
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dmytro98 I've got the same style 262 wheels and if I didn't have to buy 2 sets of new wheels to do 335i brakes that would be great, but 20mm seems pretty aggressive, how does that look? Seems like it would stick out quite a bit.
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      01-20-2022, 11:46 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccity Rider View Post
I just did this swap on my 128i and I have a very long pedal. Did Yu end up having to swap out your master cylinder? Did the sport brake coding make any difference for pedal feel? TIA
I have a long pedal, but haven't swapped the master yet. If I drove this car daily, I'd be motivated to do it sooner rather than later. Alas, I rarely drive it and it's stored for the winter.
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      01-21-2022, 03:21 AM   #86
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I don't remember if I used the 7 or 7.5 wide wheels to get it to fit and also I don't remember if both fit but I'll be putting the winter wheels on in about a week. If you are running stock camber you will probably rub even with 205 wide tires. I have about -2.5 degrees of camber so I haven't had issues. I wouldn't recommend keeping the stock wheels for anything but winter tires or as cheap daily tires if you have a set of track wheels.

This is with 205/50r17 winter tires so might be a bit wider than all season.
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      01-21-2022, 10:01 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccity Rider View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3SpdDmn View Post
I'm currently putting 335i calipers on my 128i. I wouldn't do it until I confirmed that I wasn't altering the OE brake bias. I know all too well about the negative effects to ABS function and performance that are brought about by altering bias. Driving additional forward brake bias will also increase understeer on corner entry through the trail-braking phase, for those of you who are driving on tack. Upgrade wisely.
For those who need credentials: 5+ years engineer in OEM vehicle performance development, 4+ years as and professional development and race driver.

128i vs 128i Performance vs 335i Brake Bias Calculations

I just did this swap on my 128i and I have a very long pedal. Did Yu end up having to swap out your master cylinder? Did the sport brake coding make any difference for pedal feel? TIA
IMO you should put in the 135 MC
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