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      07-29-2019, 04:55 AM   #1
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Oil recommendations, since Mobil1 and Castrol dont meet LL-01 anymore

Hi folks,

last year I had to change my favorite Mobil1 New life 0w40 to Castrol Edge, since Mobil1 did not match LL-01 spec anymore.

One year later, same thing with Castrol

Right now there are only a few 0w40 available that meet the LL-01 spec. I compared characteristics and these seem quite ok:

RAVENOL SSL SAE 0W-40

Motul 8100 X-max 0W-40


There also are cheaper oils from Aral and Shell, but Aral seems to have lost the LL-01 spec too.
Seriously, I somehow get the impression that its not because of some formula change, but because of BMW switching form Castrol to Shell at some point.

Maybe someone has more insight on that.

So what is your oil recommendation in 2019?
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      07-29-2019, 05:16 AM   #2
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I have switched to the Motul 0W40.
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      07-29-2019, 08:25 AM   #3
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How hard do you drive? How often do you change your oil?

I essentially just drive my car to work and on errands, I hit freeway ramps quickly and occasionally have some fun but of the most part just don't stress the car. And I change oil annually at just 1-2 thousand miles - probably a waste but a habit hard to break. As such, any of those oils mentioned even without LL-01, to me, are going to be A-OK.
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      07-29-2019, 08:36 AM   #4
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I stocked up on Castrol before the new bottles hit the shelves, but I use Motul 8100 in the wife's car. Once I run out of Castrol, I will use the Motul in mine also.
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      07-29-2019, 08:57 AM   #5
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      07-29-2019, 01:57 PM   #6
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I'm using Motul right now, but I also have a stock of Castrol that still has the LL01 rating that I picked up from Walmart a couple of weeks ago. I plan on picking up some more Castrol next time I'm near the Walmart. Once I run out of this stock, I'll probably switch ti Motul full time.
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      07-29-2019, 03:00 PM   #7
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IF you can find an LL4 rated oil... you could use that where LL1 is spec'd. LL4 meets LL1 rating and is backwards compatible. But you can't go the other way!(use LL1 where LL4 is spec'd).

Dackel


This is what I use over here in Germany. You have to be careful bc Castrol has some half or semi synthetic oils on offer too. This oil is FULL synthetic oil.


Castrol Edge Titanium Fst 0 W-40 A3/B4 Engine Oil Engine Oil Castrol Oil Filler Pendant specification/Approvals: Acea A3/B3 A3/B4 Engine Oil; API SN/CF/VW 502/505 00; BMW Long
Name:  Castrol Edge Fluid Titanium 0W40 A3 B4 Motoröl inkl. Castrol Olwechselanhänger   51s7GrVrKIL.jpg
Views: 17275
Size:  36.6 KB

Name:  Castrol Edge Fluid Titanium 0W40 A3 B4 Motoröl inkl. Castrol Olwechselanhänger  DXGjW4L.jpg
Views: 17330
Size:  42.2 KB


https://www.amazon.de/Castrol-Motore...gateway&sr=8-3




.
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      07-29-2019, 03:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
IF you can find an LL4 rated oil... you could use that where LL1 is spec'd. LL4 meets LL1 rating and is backwards compatible. But you can't go the other way!(use LL1 where LL4 is spec'd).

Dackel


This is what I use over here in Germany. You have to be careful bc Castrol has some half or semi synthetic oils on offer too. This oil is FULL synthetic oil.


Castrol Edge Titanium Fst 0 W-40 A3/B4 Engine Oil Engine Oil Castrol Oil Filler Pendant specification/Approvals: Acea A3/B3 A3/B4 Engine Oil; API SN/CF/VW 502/505 00; BMW Long


https://www.amazon.de/Castrol-Motore...gateway&sr=8-3

.

That is what I was using too (with your recommendation ). Like Thunderguts said though, those "old" bottles are just the remains that get replaced by the new ones eventually:

new bottles

You can also check that on the castrol website. No more FS 0w40 from castrol with LL-01


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
IF you can find an LL4 rated oil... you could use that where LL1 is spec'd. LL4 meets LL1 rating and is backwards compatible.
As far as I know, that is only one part of the story. LL-04 is highly restricted in its additives like sulfate ashes and other stuff, that is good for prolonging engine life, but problematic in diesel/patrol-driven cars with particle filters (DPF/OPF). LL-01 does not suffer from these limitations.

So if you are driving a petrol-driven car without an OPF and BMW recommended an oil with LL-01 in the first place, then that should be the right choice. I guess
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      07-29-2019, 04:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
I'm using Motul right now, but I also have a stock of Castrol that still has the LL01 rating that I picked up from Walmart a couple of weeks ago. I plan on picking up some more Castrol next time I'm near the Walmart. Once I run out of this stock, I'll probably switch ti Motul full time.
Hm, maybe I will try to do the same and find me a shop that still has some Castrol in stock
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      07-29-2019, 04:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
IF you can find an LL4 rated oil... you could use that where LL1 is spec'd. LL4 meets LL1 rating and is backwards compatible. But you can't go the other way!(use LL1 where LL4 is spec'd).

Dackel


This is what I use over here in Germany. You have to be careful bc Castrol has some half or semi synthetic oils on offer too. This oil is FULL synthetic oil.


Castrol Edge Titanium Fst 0 W-40 A3/B4 Engine Oil Engine Oil Castrol Oil Filler Pendant specification/Approvals: Acea A3/B3 A3/B4 Engine Oil; API SN/CF/VW 502/505 00; BMW Long
Attachment 2109511

Attachment 2109512


https://www.amazon.de/Castrol-Motore...way&sr=8-3




.
LL04 is a low/mid SAPS oil, and can not be used with our shitty fuel (in NA) with sulphur in it. LL01 is a full SAPS oil for dealing with fuel contaminants. Don't want that sulphur to create sulphuric acid in the sump.

Although, just noticed OP is in Germany, so no worry about the crap fuel we get.
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      07-29-2019, 09:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
LL04 is a low/mid SAPS oil, and can not be used with our shitty fuel (in NA) with sulphur in it. LL01 is a full SAPS oil for dealing with fuel contaminants. Don't want that sulphur to create sulphuric acid in the sump.

Although, just noticed OP is in Germany, so no worry about the crap fuel we get.
Yes, the US market(LL1) has high amount of sulfur in the fuel. In Europe(LL4) the have little to no sulfur in the fuel. Hence the two Long Life ratings.

I dug up some (old)PDF's on BMW approved oils... I've attached them bellow. Its been a long time since these pdf's have been released... so take them with a grain of salt.

Getting back to US vs EU oils/fuels... I don't know where I read it... but I am fairly sure that a LL4 rated oil(low sulfur for the EU market) meets/exceeds LL1 specs. And that is why you can use a LL4 rated oil for the US market. Again, I am fairly sure on that, but not 100% sure.

The best thing is to change your oil often. At least twice a year regardless of mileage. IF you don't drive that many miles in a year... it is even more important to change your oil. All those short drives and fuel getting into your oil does an engine no good. The BEST oil is FRESH oil!

Btw... BMW has said in the past that any viscosity oil with a LL(rating for your countries fuel type) can be used. Any 0w40, 0w30, 5w30 or 5w40 oils.

Dack
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      07-30-2019, 05:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
LL04 is a low/mid SAPS oil, and can not be used with our shitty fuel (in NA) with sulphur in it. LL01 is a full SAPS oil for dealing with fuel contaminants. Don't want that sulphur to create sulphuric acid in the sump.

Although, just noticed OP is in Germany, so no worry about the crap fuel we get.
Yes, the US market(LL1) has high amount of sulfur in the fuel. In Europe(LL4) the have little to no sulfur in the fuel. Hence the two Long Life ratings.

I dug up some (old)PDF's on BMW approved oils... I've attached them bellow. Its been a long time since these pdf's have been released... so take them with a grain of salt.

Getting back to US vs EU oils/fuels... I don't know where I read it... but I am fairly sure that a LL4 rated oil(low sulfur for the EU market) meets/exceeds LL1 specs. And that is why you can use a LL4 rated oil for the US market. Again, I am fairly sure on that, but not 100% sure.

The best thing is to change your oil often. At least twice a year regardless of mileage. IF you don't drive that many miles in a year... it is even more important to change your oil. All those short drives and fuel getting into your oil does an engine no good. The BEST oil is FRESH oil!

Btw... BMW has said in the past that any viscosity oil with a LL(rating for your countries fuel type) can be used. Any 0w40, 0w30, 5w30 or 5w40 oils.

Dack
LL-01 will give you better protection, and for longer, at the expense of slightly increased contamination of the cat and valve deposits.

I would rather replace a cat than an engine.
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      07-30-2019, 08:24 AM   #13
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Speaking of Castrol 0W-40, it's on sale at Amazon for $20.48/5 qts:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1
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      07-30-2019, 10:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw1racer View Post
Speaking of Castrol 0W-40, it's on sale at Amazon for $20.48/5 qts:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1
Don't ever trust listings on Amazon for a recently updated product. I was in charge of our company's Amazon sales for several years and basically any vendor can go in and override the stock photo or they can tag their product with the old stock photo. You absolutely cannot rely on that listing to get the old LL-01 approved oil, even if the image shows the old bottle. Only buy it if you're willing to ship it back once you discover that you got the new formula.
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      07-30-2019, 04:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
Don't ever trust listings on Amazon for a recently updated product. I was in charge of our company's Amazon sales for several years and basically any vendor can go in and override the stock photo or they can tag their product with the old stock photo. You absolutely cannot rely on that listing to get the old LL-01 approved oil, even if the image shows the old bottle. Only buy it if you're willing to ship it back once you discover that you got the new formula.
What you say totally makes sense. Amazon returns are super easy these days though if you're near a Kohls. You can just drop off the return and go.
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      07-31-2019, 06:56 AM   #16
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This looks like the new bottle design, that clearly doesn't say BMW



Here is the old bottle design



The Amazon stuff is misleading because the description is for the old (LL-01) bottle but the pic is of the new bottle
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      07-31-2019, 07:11 AM   #17
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I still use the Castrol 0-40W European formula. I think the last 5 qt jug on it still had the LL-01 rating but the next one probably will not. I read the "bob the oil guy" thread on this and my take away is the oil did not change. Castrol just did not pay to recertify the oil to what the guys at that other website say is an obsolete standard. If the oil is truly not changed, then it doesn't matter.

I looked at again just now and found a different factor. Apparently BMW introduced a new test for LL-01 for the newer turbo 4 cylinder engine. The thread was talking about Mobil 1 but included a supposed quote from Mobil saying they haven't passed the new test yet. That also does not make me scared of using it in my NA 6 cylinder.

I also change oil and filter every 5,000 miles. That is about 3 times a year right now, probably go to two times a year when I retire. My car is long out of warranty so there is no warranty impact. I really think that it probably would not matter which full synthetic I use at my oil change frequency. If you change at 10,000 miles or more, I suspect it matters much more that you get the best oil for your engine.
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      07-31-2019, 06:59 PM   #18
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FWIW, I just got the jug I ordered yesterday and it mentions BMW on the label:
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      08-01-2019, 06:16 AM   #19
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Hi Guys,

You all got me thinking so I looked at some German Castrol oil I ordered this week. Six liters since I had an old fresh unused liter bottle in my garage. To my surprise the new one liter bottle doesn't say BMW LL4. But on the big 5 liter jug it does! I normally run 0w40 Castrol Edge in my 135i. On my last oil change I was in a pinch and ordered some 5w30 Castrol. Just now I noticed it is NOT a full synthetic but rated "HC" what ever that means(maybe partial synthetic ?). Looking back now I realize that this 5w30 oil was of the incorrect oil specs for my 135i.

For my old e39 540i I use Mobil 1, 5w30 mainly because it's so much cheaper than buying eight liters of 0w40 Mobil 1 oil($24 for a 5 quart jug on Base vs $8 for a one quart). I just buy two 5 liter jugs of the 5w30 and I am done. My 5er holds 7,5 liters of oil. I change my oil very often... between 5K and 8K kms... so I think I am ok with my 5er. Besides... that car is my daily bitch.


Ok, here are my pics for your enjoyment!

0w40 Castrol Edge LL4...
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5w30 Castrol Edge oil I last used in my 135i...
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5w30 Mobil 1 oil I use in my 5er...
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      08-01-2019, 08:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Yes, the US market(LL1) has high amount of sulfur in the fuel. In Europe(LL4) the have little to no sulfur in the fuel. Hence the two Long Life ratings.

I dug up some (old)PDF's on BMW approved oils... I've attached them bellow. Its been a long time since these pdf's have been released... so take them with a grain of salt.

Getting back to US vs EU oils/fuels... I don't know where I read it... but I am fairly sure that a LL4 rated oil(low sulfur for the EU market) meets/exceeds LL1 specs. And that is why you can use a LL4 rated oil for the US market. Again, I am fairly sure on that, but not 100% sure.

The best thing is to change your oil often. At least twice a year regardless of mileage. IF you don't drive that many miles in a year... it is even more important to change your oil. All those short drives and fuel getting into your oil does an engine no good. The BEST oil is FRESH oil!

Btw... BMW has said in the past that any viscosity oil with a LL(rating for your countries fuel type) can be used. Any 0w40, 0w30, 5w30 or 5w40 oils.

Dack
I'm changing my oil (128i) yearly. Try not to use the car for very short runs like going to the supermarket and I only put about 5,000 / year on the car.

Do I need to consider more frequent changes??? FWIW while under wtty BMW would only change it annually if mileage was low. (I know BMW isn't terribly concerned about my N52 lasting very long after the wtty expired)
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      08-01-2019, 11:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw1racer View Post
FWIW, I just got the jug I ordered yesterday and it mentions BMW on the label:
Interesting, that even looks like the new design for the bottle (with the oil going through what looks like a couple of tapered bearings). Does the back still list a LLXX designation of some sort?
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      08-01-2019, 02:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtla1 View Post
Interesting, that even looks like the new design for the bottle (with the oil going through what looks like a couple of tapered bearings). Does the back still list a LLXX designation of some sort?
I think so... I'll take a pic when I get home.
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